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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Best explanation why Zelda BotW is great

Medisti said:
Ganoncrotch said:

It rains sometimes and I can't climb a mountain

My shiny weapon broke, I wanted to use that weapon for the whole game so I could avoid all the other mechanics and weapons that the game has to offer me!

Probably those two, maybe something thrown in about how there isn't breadcrumbs to follow or someone taking you by the hand dragging you from dungeon to dungeon screaming "CLICK THAT BUTTON TO KILL GANON A BIT!" Before dragging you to the next dungeon splicing in the trip with a 20 minute unskippable cutscene.

The best part is if the rain and durability was gone, different people would complain because they went to hyrule Castle,  got a super weapon and the game became too easy. It doesn't matter how good something is. Someone will hate it. I have a friend who hates the Sound of Music, lol. That's a classic.

I think some people just hate life :D



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SvennoJ said:
vivster said:

It's not overblown because it's a mechanic that no one would miss if it wasn't there from the beginning. Its uselessness is what makes it so much worse. If you add on top of it that the game relies on you to switch weapons constantly and then does not have an intuitive and quick weapon switch system you have an insult to player.

I specifically refer to the rain. The cold and hot mechanics are nice additions that encourage you to explore, gather items and craft stuff.

BOTW has a great and gigantic world to explore and to do it efficiently I will sweep areas in order and methodically. I cannot do that when the game tells me to arbitrarily wait ten minutes to continue my exploration or just to fuck off. That's a horrible thing to do and it adds nothing to the game but annoyance. You cannot hand the player a gigantic toolbox at the start of the game and then arbitrarily decide on random chance when he is allowed what tool to use. That's just terrible game design. Maybe if they made some kind of weather report so you can plan accordingly or gave you the tools to climb wet surfaces it would be different. But as it is now it's just another annoyance thrown into the game with no sense or reason.

There is a weather report in the UI. There's 3 icons that tell you the upcoming weather. But I agree, it was annoying, almost getting to the top then the rain starts and back down you go. First few drops and it turns into a slide. Fires don't work so you can't wait it out. Bomb arrows stop working so you can't blast open that cave you wanted to explore. Lightning starts forcing you to go into the inventory so the lighting can't see your stuff in your magic pockets.

Once you have Revalis gale, plenty stamina and the climing gear it is very possible to climb in the rain. Jump just before you slide and with the climbing gear set onus you can still make decent progress. I was lucky to explore the desert and mountains first, didn't experience rain until I already had Revali's gale and multiple stamina bars. It was still annoying. I read there's a helmet to protect you from lighting, never found it in my 170 hours with the game... Bomb arrows have no way around it though. I've sat starting at multiple breakable walls waiting for the rain to finally stop. Trying to save/reload hoping the rain would piss off.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

But see *this* is why I can't see why you hate the game or think it's like , the bane of Open world fun. Literally there's two areas with consistent rain, maybe one more I haven't discovered. I'm not trying to excuse it but it's not exactly game breaking, like 90% of the world has no rain(at least I've never seen it in a cold or desert world, and the grass lands almost never have rain). It's pretty much just the tropics. 

 

I don't agree. I'm not a Zelda expert or fan, far from it, but to me Zelda games have always had a problem with exploration where you're only rewarded with rupees or heart pieces - which after a few chests become entirely meaningless. Essentially exploration in the old Zelda games is hardly properly rewarded, but I think Majora's Mask was *getting there* with the masks or sword(which was also in Ocarina but eh). The durability mechanic, along with the introduction of new weapons, encourages exploration. Without the durability mechanic, players would keep the same weapons almost the entire game if they found a great weapon early on. And then they'd be like "What the heck!?!?!?! This enemy doesn't die from my soldier's broadsword??? Game is bugged dood! Can't even kill this guardian dood!" Now I know you and another user talked about earlier how a game shouldn't use weapon breaks as a way to make the player experiment with different weapons. But Breath of the Wild is closer to a survival game, than most games themed around realistic survival mechanics. Duration feeds into exploration which feeds into the first really interesting chest loot in the Zelda series which leads to more exploration. It's a way to teach players to explore without forcing them to. I also like using weapon break tactically. It's *soooo* satisfying to through a sword at the face of a goblin to make them shoot across the ground and fall down a cliff, or to make them drop their weapon as they fall over. I don't think the system is perfect, but I think it fits the tone with the game a lot. It's artificial sure but I think it works well for the world. Could be a little better, not that bad though. In fact it's honestly almost perfect.

A great example of this is that one time I went to this stable just out of Kakariko village and I overheard these two dudes talking about a poem that was cryptic. I paid them to telll me more, then I went to dualing peaks thinking that the poem told me to go there. After getting a boat and playing pirate for a while, I landed on shores to try and scout this illusive cave and find the treasure. No quest markers, no big hints - and the river was even split in two meaning I had to use my own mind to take a risk and decide which route to follow the water(it was flowing from both directions). So I found the cave eventually and it had this awesome as flame sword that did 22 damage + flame damage, and at the time I was using weapons with like 12 damage. I was so happy I freaked out. At first thinking about how it was so cool made me not want to use it, but I started to use it. It was much more durable than I imagined but I was getting to a point where it was evenly matched between other weapons. As long as you keep exploring, you pretty much will almost never have a favorite weapon. 

I agree though, the amount of weapons you can have at once is kind of weak. Feels like a bit too much of a restrictive.

I was stuck with 8 weapon slots for the first 80 hours as I went my own way. I had about 200 Korok seeds when I finally ran into the dude, who only wanted me to spend 3 seeds before disappearing again... The first weapon I got after the plateau was a 45 dmg hammer. Kinda made everything look weak after that even though it broke. HZD does it better letting you experience different weapon combinations, better suited for different battles. There's no weapon breaking there and it's still fun to experiment and exciting to find a new tool.

I wasn't attacking enemies in BotW for their weapons or the little chest with a useless new weapon or shield. Just to loot their monster bits to upgrade armor. Weapons became kinda meaningless. Fight with whatever dropped the last fight. No point in getting attached to anything. Just keep a spear, sword and two hander at hand, don't bother with the elemental ones that take up space. Just one flame kind for melting and starting fires. Plus a two hander lighting sword to take out sleeping Hinox with spin attack plus lighting slam in 5 seconds. So satisfying. Works on Lynels as well.

My kid currently doesn't want to play anymore because of the random ninja attacks that never end. He want to light the torches in Akela, but it's raining and the yiga clan keeps showing up.

I can't say whether or not HZD does it better, didn't get far into that game. But see *that's* the problem. You're saying weapons become useless cause you didn't even try to get them. 

Really? I thought the Ninja attacks were awesome. You encounter like 3 ninja attacks in the first 7 hours of the game ... kind of a weird complaint.

archer9234 said:

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

The durability mechanic, along with the introduction of new weapons, encourages exploration. Without the durability mechanic, players would keep the same weapons almost the entire game if they found a great weapon early on.

But Breath of the Wild is closer to a survival game, than most games themed around realistic survival mechanics. Duration feeds into exploration which feeds into the first really interesting chest loot in the Zelda series which leads to more exploration.

That's what people want. You got the best weapon. Now I don't have to worry about the pointless weak fucks. Blow threw them. In this game, that's replaced with: My weapon breaks. I'll just run past them. Different reason, same response. Not bothering with the weak guys. What's the point of durability? So that I can randomly come across a really good weapon. While I'm still early in the game. I'd rather the weapons be scaled to locations or gated off. The Master Sword is gated by 13 hearts. Why is that a thing? The game contradicts itself. If you reach the Master Sword 2 hours in. You have it. And that's it. Who cares. it follows the breaking system. You can fight gannon right at the start. But not get your sword at the start. So much for freedom.

No it's not. A real survival game lets you repair or craft a new weapon yourself. And not rely on RNG. If my metal pickaxe broke in Ark. I go up a mountain and gather metal and other stuff. Repaired, moving on.

This is such a badly thought out argument and i'm surprised i've heard it time and time again. First of all - killing enemies will often give you great loot in chests, not all the time, but it often will. It's *EXTREMELY* unlikely you'll have full slots of VERY POWERFUL weapons, so your arguments parameters is that you have to have all  weapons *SO POWERFUL* that you literally don't ever want to fight any enemies in the game. You could use a regular broadsword, a boko club, a spear...but instead you use this argument where you just run around the weapon with 8 beta master swords and then go "hurr durr no attacking for me". That's very unlikely and very specific. By the time you get 18+ dmg weapons, no one is going to go around crying over their 12 dmg broadsword. If you have 8 extremely powerful weapons and don't want to use them - chances are one of those isn't rare in the slightest or isn't as powerful as the others.   Like right now in the game, my weapons go from 50 damage to around 27. I don't use the 50 damage one because I want to reserve it, but *that's fine because* the games enemies aren't scaled for that 50 damage weapon yet. My own ingenuity was used to find the weapon, now i'll keep it for when I need it. You act like that's a bad thing but it's not. Awesome weapons have great durability so you *can* play around with them. But i don't need to use that weapon, or feel bad when it breaks, because ultimately i still have 37 dmg or 40 dmg weapons that do just fine. Hell the point I'm at in the game dmg 27 weapons work great. You're acting like these weapons are super cool ultra specific weapons that you never want to let go of but you have so many other weapons you could use. It's just such a silly point really.  

The point about the Master Sword : That's not really a contradiction. Getting the Master Sword early on would be stupid. Your own argument is so weird. That's just such bad logic. Did you miss the game in the series where the master sword is so powerful that Link goes 7 years in the future to weild it.

 "I'd rather the weapons be scaled to locations or gated off. The Master Sword is gated by 13 hearts. Why is that a thing? The game contradicts itself. If you reach the Master Sword 2 hours in. You have it. And that's it. Who cares. it follows the breaking system. You can fight gannon right at the start. But not get your sword at the start. So much for freedom."

So you'd rather weapons be scaled off...except the most important plot item in the entire series? Uh ... ok ??? You can't say that because there's one area of the game that's not entirely free the game is contradicting itself. "So much for freedom" - yeah, one weapon is really holding back that freedom pal. Can you imagine if you explored the open world and found secret weapons and the game was like "locked off". You'd be like "wtf!!!" Sure it might be more consistent with the Master Sword, but a random item and the Master Sword are two completely different things.

I *COMPLETELY* disagree. Honestly it's almost like you didn't think about what Survival entails. Here's the thing : I agree that an optimal survival gaming would have a crafting mechanic. But have you played literally every survival game coming out in the past decade? Crafting mecahnics have essentially become as homogenous and as bland as your average leveling system. They've become a crotch for players to use so they don't have to think about ammo conservation or weapon durability or anything like that. The problem isn't crafting systems, it's the fact that they don't have any rarity to them. It should be *rare* to have enough material to make a bow or craft an arrow, but then that conflicts with the foliage most games have and wouldn't be deemed "logical". Essentially, you'd have to run logical gymnastics to make a crafting system that makes sense for the game, but doesn't break the world. It's almost impossible because, most games that have survival elements want to have multiple trees, plants, locales. But that makes it wayyy too easy. Crafting systems have ruined most games based on survival - honestly. 



mZuzek said:
pokoko said:

I never look at trophies and If I don't want to achieve something then I don't worry about it.  What you're basically saying is that because some people can't control themselves, other people shouldn't have something which they enjoy.  It's the easiest thing in the world to allow people to turn off notifications and to put stats on a page that no one ever has to look at if they don't want.

I mean, I get your point, and yeah... but really, no.

That's fine.  I like options but I know some people want a locked-down experience.  For my part, I know that the presence of random information I might never look at isn't going to ruin anything for me so I'm good either way.



I just hope that with the success of BOTW, we will start to see other open world games go open air(Make everything climbable).



Something...Something...Games...Something

AngryLittleAlchemist said:
SvennoJ said:

There is a weather report in the UI. There's 3 icons that tell you the upcoming weather. But I agree, it was annoying, almost getting to the top then the rain starts and back down you go. First few drops and it turns into a slide. Fires don't work so you can't wait it out. Bomb arrows stop working so you can't blast open that cave you wanted to explore. Lightning starts forcing you to go into the inventory so the lighting can't see your stuff in your magic pockets.

Once you have Revalis gale, plenty stamina and the climing gear it is very possible to climb in the rain. Jump just before you slide and with the climbing gear set onus you can still make decent progress. I was lucky to explore the desert and mountains first, didn't experience rain until I already had Revali's gale and multiple stamina bars. It was still annoying. I read there's a helmet to protect you from lighting, never found it in my 170 hours with the game... Bomb arrows have no way around it though. I've sat starting at multiple breakable walls waiting for the rain to finally stop. Trying to save/reload hoping the rain would piss off.

I was stuck with 8 weapon slots for the first 80 hours as I went my own way. I had about 200 Korok seeds when I finally ran into the dude, who only wanted me to spend 3 seeds before disappearing again... The first weapon I got after the plateau was a 45 dmg hammer. Kinda made everything look weak after that even though it broke. HZD does it better letting you experience different weapon combinations, better suited for different battles. There's no weapon breaking there and it's still fun to experiment and exciting to find a new tool.

I wasn't attacking enemies in BotW for their weapons or the little chest with a useless new weapon or shield. Just to loot their monster bits to upgrade armor. Weapons became kinda meaningless. Fight with whatever dropped the last fight. No point in getting attached to anything. Just keep a spear, sword and two hander at hand, don't bother with the elemental ones that take up space. Just one flame kind for melting and starting fires. Plus a two hander lighting sword to take out sleeping Hinox with spin attack plus lighting slam in 5 seconds. So satisfying. Works on Lynels as well.

My kid currently doesn't want to play anymore because of the random ninja attacks that never end. He want to light the torches in Akela, but it's raining and the yiga clan keeps showing up.

I can't say whether or not HZD does it better, didn't get far into that game. But see *that's* the problem. You're saying weapons become useless cause you didn't even try to get them. 

Really? I thought the Ninja attacks were awesome. You encounter like 3 ninja attacks in the first 7 hours of the game ... kind of a weird complaint.

Huh are we playing a different game? After finishing the yiga clan hideout they wouldn't leave me alone in a lot of zones. I've killed about fifty of the random spawn attack then simply started to run away from them. I was glad to get to the vulcano zone where they don't show up, finally some peaceful exploring again. It was more like 3 every 10 minutes, got pretty annoying. The weapons they drop break very quickly too, useless.



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SvennoJ said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I can't say whether or not HZD does it better, didn't get far into that game. But see *that's* the problem. You're saying weapons become useless cause you didn't even try to get them. 

Really? I thought the Ninja attacks were awesome. You encounter like 3 ninja attacks in the first 7 hours of the game ... kind of a weird complaint.

Huh are we playing a different game? After finishing the yiga clan hideout they wouldn't leave me alone in a lot of zones. I've killed about fifty of the random spawn attack then simply started to run away from them. I was glad to get to the vulcano zone where they don't show up, finally some peaceful exploring again. It was more like 3 every 10 minutes, got pretty annoying. The weapons they drop break very quickly too, useless.

Ehhh they do kind of get annoying. I like the bow though, but it breaks kinda quickly.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
SvennoJ said:

Huh are we playing a different game? After finishing the yiga clan hideout they wouldn't leave me alone in a lot of zones. I've killed about fifty of the random spawn attack then simply started to run away from them. I was glad to get to the vulcano zone where they don't show up, finally some peaceful exploring again. It was more like 3 every 10 minutes, got pretty annoying. The weapons they drop break very quickly too, useless.

Ehhh they do kind of get annoying. I like the bow though, but it breaks kinda quickly.

Also their weapons are never ever enchanted if you notice.

That circular blade is pretty awesome though... great for cutting grass to find frogs and rice!



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

It's funny how I never use the boomerang as a booomerang in this game lol



It is a great game no doubt. I personally hated it as a huge zelda fan. Didn't feel like zelda to me. felt like a boring witcher 3 copy but done alot worse.

after i finished the 2nd devine beast i put it on kijiji.

Hopefully nintendo makes a traditional style zelda with long big dungeons like the old linear style to please the old school zelda fans.

Ahh all this zelda talk is making me nostalgic. Time to re-read my Hyrule Historia book to relive the glory days!



Ka-pi96 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
People bitching about broken weapons have no idea what they're talking about. Dispelling some ignorance:

I'll dispel some more ignorance for you...

While some gamers may be incapable of doing something they find fun unless they are forced to, others prefer to have choices as to how they play their games and what they use in those games...

There is no other game of this stature with more choice.