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Forums - Politics Discussion - NYT : "Trump Jr. Was Told in Email of Russian Effort to Aid Campaign"

 

Collusion?

yes 116 50.43%
 
no 22 9.57%
 
too early to tell? 35 15.22%
 
fake news 57 24.78%
 
Total:230

I'm still reeling from how funny this shit is.
Big offset in the race for stupidest person in the White House.



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You have to wonder what the Trump administration was thinking in keep these emails around. It's like amateur night at the comedy club. You can believe they probably still got damaging stuff just sitting on their servers and will be shocked when the subpoena start to come. Whether Trump Jr meeting is a crime or not, it will definitely give the Special Prosecutor enough leverage to go seeking more emails from Trump companies.

Also who is leaking these emails from Trump on servers. This is not some Obama aid in the white house. I still have this belief that their is that third party just dripping out stuff like this because Trump and his people were to stupid not to leave a paper or digital trail.



Superman4 said:
JRPGfan said:

What about intent ?

It doesnt matter at all to you?

The purpose (why he went to meet with russians) was to get dirt, so he could use it, and effect the election.

That is collusion.

 

He himself has admitted to it, in a tweet. He knowingly went to get dirt, from the russians on Hilary.

So what is it when the media gets dirt on people and publishes it? How about if  a candidate sought to get dirt on Hillary from another American? Dirt is dirt, it doesnt matter where it comes from as long as it can be proven true or false.  The intent was to damage Hillary and help Drumpf, if Hillary has nothing to hide as she says than no dirt can be unearthed and we have no story.

Do you really not understand the difference between a news organization cooperating with a foreign government and the President's advisors and family members?  The former does not dictate foreign policy.  The latter does.

It's the same reason why me having a close personal friendship with a mob boss probably wouldn't matter, but the police chief having a close personal relationship with a mob boss would be cause for public concern.

We don't want a conflict of interest, especially in the highest office in the country.



I just saw another piece where they show only days after the setup of this meeting between Trump Jr and the Russian Attorney, Trump himself coming out and saying he was going to reveal information concerning Hillary Clinton. I wonder how he will try to wiggle from that statement that he knew nothing about the meeting.



Machiavellian said:
I just saw another piece where they show only days after the setup of this meeting between Trump Jr and the Russian Attorney, Trump himself coming out and saying he was going to reveal information concerning Hillary Clinton. I wonder how he will try to wiggle from that statement that he knew nothing about the meeting.

Saw this too. On the 7th, he said that he had some big revelations coming on Clinton. He said he'd likely announce them in a speech on the 13th. The meeting was held on the 9th. The 13th came and went, and Trump gave his speech without really mentioning any dirt on Clinton. 

Seems pretty easy to fill in the blanks. Trump was hyped about what they'd learn at the meeting and couldn't help himself but to tease it. Meeting came, but they didn't get anything good out of it, and so the big reveal just disappears from his agenda. We don't have proof positive though.

What we do have, is that Trump's campaign learned of a plot by the Russian government to influence the election on Trump's behalf and sought to benefit from it. We also can tell, from plain observation, that Trump has expended considerable time and effor while in office trying to undermine the Russia investigation. Think, "fake news", "let Flynn go",  asking heads of the various intelligence agencies to clear him of suspicion, firing Comey, etc.

We need two more ingredients for impeachment IMO.

1.) Proof that Trump knew about Manafort, Kushner, and Junior trying to profit from a plot by the Russians

2.) The sycophant majority in congress needs to grow a spine

I think getting #1 will be a lot easier. 



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JRPGfan said:
Superman4 said:

So what is it when the media gets dirt on people and publishes it? How about if  a candidate sought to get dirt on Hillary from another American? Dirt is dirt, it doesnt matter where it comes from as long as it can be proven true or false.  The intent was to damage Hillary and help Trump, if Hillary has nothing to hide as she says than no dirt can be unearthed and we have no story.

Theres a differnce between a american journalist, that through legal means discovers something they thinks the public needs to know.

And a Russian agent, maybe looking to trade favors, by handing over damageing information, in order to win a election, for a person they approve off to be set in place of power.

 

Outside's sources arnt supposed to determine/effect american elections, and your not supposed to meet with them to do so.

Trump Jr admits to doing so.

He showed up at a meeting, to get intel, hopeing that it would help them win a election.

Outside sources didnt determine or affect the election, Outside sources may have provided information that people didnt otherwise know but in no way made people vote differently or altered any votes. We put propoganda out in other countries elections all the time, if you think we dont you are Naive. 

 

We allow testimony from criminals against other criminals, we offer protection of criminals for testimony against other criminals, why would we not listen to anyone who can provide proof of an illigal act by one of our politicians? Why would we not listen to anyone who can provide proof of deception by one of our elected officials? Because they are bad? Because we think they are out to get us? Really? Just because you dont like the source doesnt mean the information isnt valid.

 



JWeinCom said:
Superman4 said:

So what is it when the media gets dirt on people and publishes it? How about if  a candidate sought to get dirt on Hillary from another American? Dirt is dirt, it doesnt matter where it comes from as long as it can be proven true or false.  The intent was to damage Hillary and help Drumpf, if Hillary has nothing to hide as she says than no dirt can be unearthed and we have no story.

Do you really not understand the difference between a news organization cooperating with a foreign government and the President's advisors and family members?  The former does not dictate foreign policy.  The latter does.

It's the same reason why me having a close personal friendship with a mob boss probably wouldn't matter, but the police chief having a close personal relationship with a mob boss would be cause for public concern.

We don't want a conflict of interest, especially in the highest office in the country.

Wait, so the President shouldn’t have a close relationship with a foreign leader? WTF are you talking about? A news organization cooperating with a foreign government is even worse LOL. All they have to do is feed them BS news stories and the entire country gets spoon fed the opposing governments BS, oh wait we already have CNN for that. 

 

At this point you have so many conflicts of interest it’s pretty much impossible to avoid them. The Clinton foundation is a huge conflict of interest, Bush and company having strong ties to oil and Haliburton was a huge conflict of interest. You can say that the war was started to increase income from oil and have an influx of cash into Halliburton but you have to prove it. You can say the speaking fees paid to the Clinton foundation were payoffs for favors from Secretary of State Clinton but you have to prove it etc.  At this point in the game we need to ensure that any information we receive and report on is valid. 



The story was just put out there and it has already been dismantled. Fucking pathetic. This is why no one trusts the media nowadays.



Mystro-Sama said:
The story was just put out there and it has already been dismantled. Fucking pathetic. This is why no one trusts the media nowadays.

uh.. no?



Superman4 said:
JWeinCom said:

Do you really not understand the difference between a news organization cooperating with a foreign government and the President's advisors and family members?  The former does not dictate foreign policy.  The latter does.

It's the same reason why me having a close personal friendship with a mob boss probably wouldn't matter, but the police chief having a close personal relationship with a mob boss would be cause for public concern.

We don't want a conflict of interest, especially in the highest office in the country.

Wait, so the President shouldn’t have a close relationship with a foreign leader? WTF are you talking about? A news organization cooperating with a foreign government is even worse LOL. All they have to do is feed them BS news stories and the entire country gets spoon fed the opposing governments BS, oh wait we already have CNN for that. 

 

At this point you have so many conflicts of interest it’s pretty much impossible to avoid them. The Clinton foundation is a huge conflict of interest, Bush and company having strong ties to oil and Haliburton was a huge conflict of interest. You can say that the war was started to increase income from oil and have an influx of cash into Halliburton but you have to prove it. You can say the speaking fees paid to the Clinton foundation were payoffs for favors from Secretary of State Clinton but you have to prove it etc.  At this point in the game we need to ensure that any information we receive and report on is valid. 

I double checked, and I did not say anywhere that the president should not have a close relationship with a foreign leader.  But, a presidential candidate's team should definitely not be having clandestine meetings where they are receiving information that will help them get elected.  Not going to bother responding to the rest of the rant.