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Forums - Gaming - Oddworld Creator Comment: is it the fault of a console maker if third parties don't do well?

I personally think of it as a two-way street. Both parties should be seeking to maximize their sales, and therefore I would assume they're both doing everything within reason to achieve that. If the console manufacturer creates excessive restrictions that limit this, I would blame them, if the game developer overprices its game or puts little effort into quality assurance, I would blame the developer.

That being said...I can't say I can speak to every situation out there, so if we're talking about any specific situation, I can only guess what the case would be. Looking at Nintendo alone, comments from smaller developers have seemed largely positive, and so I'd assume the comments this thread is centered around are either an exception, or speaking to conditions that may no longer be accurate. Personally, I don't mind drawing attention to issues in the present, though when I see Nintendo criticized for issues 10+ years ago...I tend to start daydreaming.



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Tbh if you create a product then you're solely responsible for it, if you sell clothes you can't exactly blame Primark or any other store they're sold in if you don't do as well as you hoped.



In the case of MS they need at least some sort of market share in japan to do this. They had a shot with the 360 and did ok all things considerd but they screwed up with xbone.
In sony's case they might start rapidly losing ground now that there is a far superior portable device over the vita in the switch when it comes to japan

In ninty's case... thier quality control and amazing
Diversity quality and output of first party titles, while good for consumers, drives third partes away.



If I open a beach and then put glass shards all over the sand, then yes, it's my fault no one will visit. Especially when people remember my previous project: "glass shards on playground".



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twintail said:
freebs2 said:
For a partnership to succeed, you'll need commitment form both parties. I don't think there's much else to say.

 

Pretty much anyone who answered like this know whats up. Is pretty obvious that Sony, and even MS, do something a lot better than Nintendo has ever done (and even now), and that is actually establish, maintain and strengthen their relations with 3rd party devs/ publishers. Of course every specific situation is different, and everyone makes mistakes.

Pretty much anyone who answered like you is actually very inconcrete and vague on details. What does Sony and MS specifically to strenghten their relations that Nintendo isn't doing? And no, I showed already for Oddworld, that Nintendo was advertising it as much as Sony would've done, Lanning was just wrong about it.

I already explained that this is mostly an image-problem: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8493492

The image is very hard to change actually. Yes, Nintendo is responsible for this image, but it was formed over a decade ago. As far as I know Nintendo does nothing really today to further strengthen this image, but it is hard to change an image that has hold for years. Yes, you're right, everyone makes errors. But as far as I can see the details Nintendo today does not more wrong than Sony and MS.

Actually Nintendo does have some progress with japanese and indie devs. They usually are very positive about the relationship with Nintendo. Lorne Lanning really is an outlier here. With big western publishers the thing is still difficult though.

 

twintail said:
KrspaceT said:

For example....

 

Is it Nintendo's fault if third party titles don't sell well on their system?

 

Is it Microsoft's fault that Japanese originating games like JRPG's don't sell well on their systems?

 

Was it Sony's fault that PS3 titles had a long history of underperforming? 

 

.

 

You could probably say yes to all these questions. MS haven't done much to strengthen their ties with JPN devs OR the actual Japanese market. The fact that they have barely tried to strengthen in the Asian market is going to make JPN support even more difficult to come by. PS3 was expensive and difficult to develop for unless you zoned in on the hardware. So yeah, that is a Sony problem. Just like 3rd party devs/ ublishers not all giving Nintendo full backing is Nintendos problem. Again, it works 2 ways. It is how all business relations work. Its not any different in the gaming industry.

 

You must be kidding. Microsoft made in the X360 era substantial investments to strengthen in the japanese market. But while developers were willing to support MS if they made the right incentives, customers in Japan mostly avoided the system. One thing MS cannot do: they still stay an american corporation, while Sony and Nintendo are japanese. Nevertheless, saying MS didn't try must be a joke.



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vivster said:
If I open a beach and then put glass shards all over the sand, then yes, it's my fault no one will visit. Especially when people remember my previous project: "glass shards on playground".

Yeah, people make strong metaphors like these. But be specific: what are the glass shards that Nintendo put out these days?



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KrspaceT said:

Is it Nintendo's fault if third party titles don't sell well on their system?

Is it Microsoft's fault that Japanese originating games like JRPG's don't sell well on their systems?

Was it Sony's fault that PS3 titles had a long history of underperforming? 

Yes, to all.

But it's not about short-term. Sony/MS/Nintendo have built a fanbase over many years, those fans have specific buying habits. Nintendo have fostered a fanbase that has little interest in third-party, MS have created a fanbase and enviroment with little emphasis on Japan.

There's not some magic switch you can flip that will suddenly make sweeping changes to the enviroment, fanbase and their buying habits that you have developed over decades.

It would take tremendous effort.



Mnementh said:
vivster said:
If I open a beach and then put glass shards all over the sand, then yes, it's my fault no one will visit. Especially when people remember my previous project: "glass shards on playground".

Yeah, people make strong metaphors like these. But be specific: what are the glass shards that Nintendo put out these days?

Hardware and 3rd party relations mostly.

While Sony and MS are specifically building their machines for 3rd party, Nintendo builds their machines for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. So of course it's their fault when no one wants to visit glass shards beach.



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Barkley said:
KrspaceT said:

Is it Nintendo's fault if third party titles don't sell well on their system?

Is it Microsoft's fault that Japanese originating games like JRPG's don't sell well on their systems?

Was it Sony's fault that PS3 titles had a long history of underperforming? 

Yes, to all.

But it's not about short-term. Sony/MS/Nintendo have built a fanbase over many years, those fans have specific buying habits. Nintendo have fostered a fanbase that has little interest in third-party, MS have created a fanbase and enviroment with little emphasis on Japan.

There's not some magic switch you can flip that will suddenly make sweeping changes to the enviroment, fanbase and their buying habits that you have developed over decades.

It would take tremendous effort.

Exactly this. Nintendo may have changed their policies a while ago, but the image will stick for a long time and it will take huge effort to change it. I hope Nintendo sticks with it, but you cannot expect fast changes in this regard.



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vivster said:
Mnementh said:

Yeah, people make strong metaphors like these. But be specific: what are the glass shards that Nintendo put out these days?

Hardware and 3rd party relations mostly.

While Sony and MS are specifically building their machines for 3rd party, Nintendo builds their machines for Nintendo and Nintendo alone. So of course it's their fault when no one wants to visit glass shards beach.

You should read how ridiculous it is what you write. Nintendo is a game maker. If they make a machine to play their games, everyone can make games that run on that machine. Nintendo does not have some magic sauce.

You could argue with power, but the main thing about 3D from developer view is that 3D is pretty scalable. By changing resolution, polygon-count, texture-quality, effects, framerate you can target pretty much every platform. And they do, including phones. Sure, if you not compromise on image quality, some games will not run, but that is true for every console. Here in germany on forums people complain that games are held back by consoles. That means PS4 and Xbox One. People assume that the game might be more visually advanced, if not for consoles. That might be true in part, but mostly because developers WANT their games to sell on PS4 and Xbox One. The reason for that are better sales. If they wanted to sell their games on Switch, they easily could do that. But they expect worse sales (probably right) and therefore don't do it. But the hardware isn't preventing anything. That is just outright ridiculous.

Also, if you blame power your glass shard mataphor is basically flawed. The power example would be a beach too small, which is why some would avoid it, but glass shards is something actively holding it back. Also, funnily enough your metaphor shows the flaws in your argument: if Nintendo put glass shards on the beach, they would get bloody feet as everyone else.

You probably should think better before posting. Badly thought-through arguments like this destroy your poster-reputations.



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