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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are you against games giving you more options?

 

Are you against games giving you more options?

Yes, play the game as it ... 21 45.65%
 
No, each consumer should... 25 54.35%
 
Total:46
Profrektius said:
Mnementh said:

(1) Sorry, what? The options you named on books or movies are terrible. Games have right out the box way more options. I can decide not to get into the next fight/puzzle whatever but stay a little. I can talk to NPC or not. I can lose. Each game, even a visual novella or interactive movie have much more freedom than a movie or a book.

(2) I'm more averse against things like full chapter select. Entertainement works on different levels. And it is entertaining to unlock things based on your success. So having everything unlocked from the beginning takes away fun. To illustrate my point: how about a game which has all achievements unlocked from the start? Or gives you the option of unlocking them by just clicking them?

Unskippable cutscenes on the other hand are a sin. People play a game a second or third time, so it makes sense to skip it. More save slots are usually a good thing, but there are games like rogue likes that win on the entertainement route by restricting saves. As I said, games are for entertainment, so everything that reduces that is bad in my book.

(3) I personally give shit how others play through, but as I wrote in the last paragraph, some options are actually hurting the entertainment factor. So I want the most entertainment out of the games. Options that don't hurt that - customizable controls, skippable cutscenes and so on - are a good thing.

(4) I see the point of developers to have their vision. But actually that is crap. They might have a fixed story in mind. But in a game a player can destroy that instantly. In games I often smile, then the NPC says: 'so hurry to defend us against the danger...' or something. I make a point of it, to go then sideways and do shit that isn't directed in the stories path. And usually I get away with it (I was surprised by Deus Ex: Human Revolution in this regard and noted it as a good thing, not only was the point of making haste pressed by the NPCs, it actually did change the game world). So developers have no way to ensure their vision anyways. So why not relax and have players who follow the path enjoy the artistical vision - and others not. Whatever.

(1) Wasn't talking about interactivity. Games are an interactive medium, that's not the point. The point was that upon buying the game, most things are restricted at the start (with no easy way around it) unlike any other medium I can think of.

(2) The extra options could be hidden in the menu, that would have to be checked to unlock things you want. For your first playthroughs, it would be recommended to avoid the extra options (could even have a warning, which imo is stull ridicilous like "careful hot" on coffee cups), unless you know exactly what you want. Simple, if you don't want it, ignore it and your game is completely normal. Edit: same thing about Souls games. "Hide" the easy mode away in settings, along with other cheats like invincibility.

I'll also flip the skippable cutscnes situation for you, just to illustrate a point. Instead of replaying purely for gameplay, say I'm replaying a game that has a lot of dialogue choices and multiple outcomes, and endings. On my n-th playthrough I maybe don't care about solving the same puzzle for the 5th time, or getting through some arbitrary gameplay section, just to see how some scenes (or ending) might have been different based on my dialogue choices.

(3) The point I'm making is that no option will hurt if it is optional! and easily avoidable by those who don't want that.

(4) I agree here, and I believe that should be expanded, to not just disobeying what the game tells you to do, but also allowing to customize your experience yourself.

(1) So fast-forwarding through the movie is more option in your book than the choice to cut grass instead of facing Ganondorf in Zelda?

(2) So. let's hide in the special menu the option to unlock all achievements for you. You don't have to look, you can always unlock the achievements by playing through the game and having this special menu doesn't take away from the fun unlocking the achievements?

And since then is dialogue not gameplay? Especially if it changes the outcome?

(3) Again, so you would be in favor of the option to unlock all achievements from the beginning?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

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Options cost time and money to implement, so there is a definitive trade-off.



Mnementh said:

(1) So fast-forwarding through the movie is more option in your book than the choice to cut grass instead of facing Ganondorf in Zelda?

(2) So. let's hide in the special menu the option to unlock all achievements for you. You don't have to look, you can always unlock the achievements by playing through the game and having this special menu doesn't take away from the fun unlocking the achievements?

And since then is dialogue not gameplay? Especially if it changes the outcome?

(3) Again, so you would be in favor of the option to unlock all achievements from the beginning?

(1) Again seriously not what I'm getting at. Obviously overall you will have more possiblilities of what to do in an interactive medium than in a non interactive medium. Perhaps better way to phrase it: it's about the fact that all the content in a book/movie/artwork/song is accessible the moment you buy it, this content is accessible to you and you are free to consume it however you want. In a game the content is not accessible when you buy the game, and a lot of content can not be accessed without putting in substantial amount of time to unlock it, without there being any way around it. In single player games it just doesn't make sense.

(2) Achievements are system that exists outside the game, and includes online functionality, hence should be limited to keep it fair for everyone like all multiplayer should. As for things solely to do with single player, you should be able to do as you please.

That was the point. All gameplay should be skippable, dialogue, combat, puzzles, cutscenes, everything. If I want to quickly get to a specific part of the game, while having made specific gameplay choices (especially on repeated playthroughs), I should be able to. If I only want to play my favourite combat section, but don't want to do the tedious puzzles before it (and vice versa), I should be able to do that. Hopefully you get the idea.

(3) Achievements that are not online (only within the game), sure. You are only cheating yourself if you do that. It doesn't affect anyone else. I just see it as useless, but if someone wants that, more power to them.



numberwang said:
Options cost time and money to implement, so there is a definitive trade-off.

Some extra options do. But some really don't. Some basic toggle for unlocks, and some basic toggles for god mode and similar things they probably already have in developer mode shouldn't be really extra effort. Basically features that you could have one guy implement on one afternoon, all should be present.

Obviously they shouldn't shift away focus from the game to develop these extra options, but so many of these options would be incredibly easy to implement. If some option is too difficult to do, don't do those obviously.



Fine but you aren't getting any trophies! Also level select should be in more games



I am Iron Man

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Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
Fine but you aren't getting any trophies! Also level select should be in more games

Obviously. Same thing with cheats not working in multiplayer. But for the single player experience, what happens in your game, should stay in your game. And you should be able to consume it however you want.



Profrektius said:
Mnementh said:

(1) So fast-forwarding through the movie is more option in your book than the choice to cut grass instead of facing Ganondorf in Zelda?

(2) So. let's hide in the special menu the option to unlock all achievements for you. You don't have to look, you can always unlock the achievements by playing through the game and having this special menu doesn't take away from the fun unlocking the achievements?

And since then is dialogue not gameplay? Especially if it changes the outcome?

(3) Again, so you would be in favor of the option to unlock all achievements from the beginning?

(1) Again seriously not what I'm getting at. Obviously overall you will have more possiblilities of what to do in an interactive medium than in a non interactive medium. Perhaps better way to phrase it: it's about the fact that all the content in a book/movie/artwork/song is accessible the moment you buy it, this content is accessible to you and you are free to consume it however you want. In a game the content is not accessible when you buy the game, and a lot of content can not be accessed without putting in substantial amount of time to unlock it, without there being any way around it. In single player games it just doesn't make sense.

(2) Achievements are system that exists outside the game, and includes online functionality, hence should be limited to keep it fair for everyone like all multiplayer should. As for things solely to do with single player, you should be able to do as you please.

That was the point. All gameplay should be skippable, dialogue, combat, puzzles, cutscenes, everything. If I want to quickly get to a specific part of the game, while having made specific gameplay choices (especially on repeated playthroughs), I should be able to. If I only want to play my favourite combat section, but don't want to do the tedious puzzles before it (and vice versa), I should be able to do that. Hopefully you get the idea.

(3) Achievements that are not online (only within the game), sure. You are only cheating yourself if you do that. It doesn't affect anyone else. I just see it as useless, but if someone wants that, more power to them.

(1) So, you're saying that books and movies don't have more options. But they have full content accessibility. And that isn't even true.

Movies are presented first in a theater. You can't skip to the end. You can leave early and come late, but that's about it. And many people say cinemas are still the best way to enjoy a movie.

Series are released with one episode each week on TV - no skipping forward.

So even for your example it is not fully true. In general, games have much more freedom and options, there is no way around it.

(2) No, achievements exist inside the game, the game maker must set them. Also they are not always online, only if tied in with a system. So, would you be OK with an option for a game where the achievements are all inside the game? Say a WiiU-game? Hyrule Warriors for instance? Would it OK if it offers an option to unlock all achievements on start in Hyrule Warriors because it does not affect other players?

But that online stuff is interesting. Are against an option to make your character invisible in online matches? Against an option to shoot through walls? To fly? Why restricting the options for the player here?

I agree on the skippable stuff.

(3) And I disagree here. It takes the fun out of unlocking the stuff, of taking the challenge, if you know you could just do it by a mouseclick. Again, for some players (like me) challenge and the reward for overcoming the challenge is a good source of endorphines. Such an option would diminish it, even if I don't choose that option. So it would make the game less entertaining. It would loose value.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]

Kind of yes.But thats only because that when that happens, something else in the game suffers, be it pacing, gameplay or story(this is the one more likely to suffer).That is one of the reasons why I like so much linear and(somewhat) simple games.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

Mnementh said:

(1) So, you're saying that books and movies don't have more options. But they have full content accessibility. And that isn't even true.

Movies are presented first in a theater. You can't skip to the end. You can leave early and come late, but that's about it. And many people say cinemas are still the best way to enjoy a movie.

Series are released with one episode each week on TV - no skipping forward.

So even for your example it is not fully true. In general, games have much more freedom and options, there is no way around it.

(2) No, achievements exist inside the game, the game maker must set them. Also they are not always online, only if tied in with a system. So, would you be OK with an option for a game where the achievements are all inside the game? Say a WiiU-game? Hyrule Warriors for instance? Would it OK if it offers an option to unlock all achievements on start in Hyrule Warriors because it does not affect other players?

But that online stuff is interesting. Are against an option to make your character invisible in online matches? Against an option to shoot through walls? To fly? Why restricting the options for the player here?

I agree on the skippable stuff.

(3) And I disagree here. It takes the fun out of unlocking the stuff, of taking the challenge, if you know you could just do it by a mouseclick. Again, for some players (like me) challenge and the reward for overcoming the challenge is a good source of endorphines. Such an option would diminish it, even if I don't choose that option. So it would make the game less entertaining. It would loose value.

(2) As in Playstation trophies and Xbox achivements that can be visible online to other people, which obviously would exclude it from the single player part that doesn't affect anyone else. As for WiiU, I don't have a WiiU so I don't know how it functions, but if it has no online visibility of those achievements at all, and is only limited to your game console and your profile, I would say that it is OK. You can unlock that you just ruin it for yourself, that's all. It's like games having a cheat code to unlock 100 percent completion. All you are doing is ruining your own experience, but same can be said about someone skipping to the end of the movie.

I advocate for this in single player. As it only affects that one person, who can then chose to consume it as they want without affecting anyone else. Online obviously has to remain fair, so obviously such options wouldn't apply. But it's not like I will be unfair to the A.I. or hurt it's feelings because I can no clip through walls, turn into the final boss and obliterate the common A.I. enemy. It will just be me having fun in a way I want to, without affecting anyone else.

Most people don't even agree on the skippable part. Which I don't get.

(3) I mean you still would need to get Playstation trophies/ xbox/steam achivements the proper way. Without there being another way. And honestly I am not too convinced on this part myself, I was just advocating it for the sake of argument. I do understand what you mean, also with say a special costume, if it is really difficult to unlock the fair way, but if I know I could just put in a cheat and get it without the effort it kind of undermines the challange. I don't know how exactly to fix this problem, but overall I believe games should give more customization of their gaming experience to the players, and trust them with it. I realize there are some limits, but trying to argue here, as I believe it isn't good the way it is now either.



Profrektius said:

(2) As in Playstation trophies and Xbox achivements that can be visible online to other people, which obviously would exclude it from the single player part that doesn't affect anyone else. As for WiiU, I don't have a WiiU so I don't know how it functions, but if it has no online visibility of those achievements at all, and is only limited to your game console and your profile, I would say that it is OK. You can unlock that you just ruin it for yourself, that's all. It's like games having a cheat code to unlock 100 percent completion. All you are doing is ruining your own experience, but same can be said about someone skipping to the end of the movie.

I advocate for this in single player. As it only affects that one person, who can then chose to consume it as they want without affecting anyone else. Online obviously has to remain fair, so obviously such options wouldn't apply. But it's not like I will be unfair to the A.I. or hurt it's feelings because I can no clip through walls, turn into the final boss and obliterate the common A.I. enemy. It will just be me having fun in a way I want to, without affecting anyone else.

Most people don't even agree on the skippable part. Which I don't get.

(3) I mean you still would need to get Playstation trophies/ xbox/steam achivements the proper way. Without there being another way. And honestly I am not too convinced on this part myself, I was just advocating it for the sake of argument. I do understand what you mean, also with say a special costume, if it is really difficult to unlock the fair way, but if I know I could just put in a cheat and get it without the effort it kind of undermines the challange. I don't know how exactly to fix this problem, but overall I believe games should give more customization of their gaming experience to the players, and trust them with it. I realize there are some limits, but trying to argue here, as I believe it isn't good the way it is now either.

 Well, so we disagree.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [peak year] [+], [1], [2], [3], [4]