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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture not Pascal

Frogger on 15 December 2016
Aerys said:
spemanig said:

"We’re not so sure if the Switch is weaker than the Xbox One, as the performance may be close."

All that matters.

Seriously, though. Who was expecting this thing to be as powerful as a PS4??

Hum most Nintendo fans based on the forums 

I haven't seen a single person on any forum infer that expectation.



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GoOnKid on 15 December 2016
KLAMarine said:

Interesting video I ran across. Highly technical, somewhat too technical for me so I cannot completely attest to this video's accuracy but give it a watch anyways if you care.

TL;DW: Pascal and Maxwell architectures aren't very different as far as the games that were tested were concerned.

GoOnKid said:

I loled. What a quote! xD

I'm serious man. One of my all-time favorite games, Resident Evil 4, is a much better game than Resident Evil 5, a game released on more powerful hardware.

Perhaps polygon counts isn't what make a game great?

I know, right? Yet there are so many people who believe that better graphics means better games. And yes, I agree, RE4 is much better than RE5, although the forumla didn't change all that much.

Now that you mention it, I feel like replaying RE4 once again (for the 217th time or so).



mutantsushi on 15 December 2016
bunchanumbers said:
mutantsushi said:

Wait... A last-gen GPU architecture is "best you can hope for"?  A last-gen fab node is "best you can hope for"?
I mean, I was clear in my last post, out powering full consoles is not 100% realistic, 
but using best architecture/fab possible gets you the best possible, why would you not hope for that?

Yes. Considering this is Nintendo this is the best we could hope for. Nintendo isn't going to go full modern. They are going to go with cheap. When has Nintendo ever went state of the art? Maybe N64? This is the best case scenario. Nintendo and power doesn't go together anymore. Its time to accept that. 

But like I wrote...  14nm is not the best, full modern, state of the art.  
Samsung 10nm partner of NVIDIA is going commercial with that in timescale of Switch.
Sure, it's likely Nintendo will not use 10nm, although they should, since TSMC other NVIDIA partner will also soon launch that node,
and prices will drop thruout lifetime of console, with advantage of more transistors per wafer area meaning cost is not overall issue.
(smaller nodes in fact are key to lower prices for powerful CPUs, so avoiding it is not truly a price-centric strategy)



mutantsushi on 15 December 2016
bunchanumbers said:

This is right up Nintendo's alley. They would customize to be weaker. They did that with Wii U. If memory serves they downclocked it so that it would run cool.

Except downclocking isn't a custom chip, hm?



mutantsushi on 15 December 2016
Miyamotoo said:

You could change text in OP because article is edited and that includes almost all text from OP.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/12/14/nintendo-switch-specs-less-powerful-than-playstation-4/

But that takes all the humor out of it!!!



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Soundwave on 15 December 2016

Likely means that report of 5-8 hour battery life from NateDrake on NeoGaf (who was the one claiming Pascal based Switch) is probably bunk as well.

Emily Rogers who's been correct on most things has said the battery life isn't great, and with a 20nm Maxwell chip that wouldn't be a suprise.

A Pascal based chip wasn't just important for hardware power, it's very relevant to battery life. A Pascal based chip would likely almost assuredly run cooler/lower power draw. 3 hours is probably now more realistic to expect. 



Chazore on 15 December 2016
SegataSanshiro said:
So this story changed it's story live so don't take it to heart. It's another bunk rumor from someone. Not to mention originally had snark comments against Nintendo's games. Guys it's total bunk.

Also this info which was also bunk.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/16/more-hints-that-amd-is-building-nintendo-nxs-processor/



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mutantsushi on 15 December 2016
setsunatenshi said:
if this rumour turns out to be true then brace for disappointment in many fronts, processing power, energy efficiency and even cost.
older chips in bigger sizes don't go down in price as time goes by so much as using current tech.
bigger sized chip means higher TDP which is killer for a handheld, so expect the battery not lasting as long as it would under Pascal.
torok said:
spemanig said:

"We’re not so sure if the Switch is weaker than the Xbox One, as the performance may be close.

It's not, they are wrong. The Pascal variant wouldn't reach X1, the Maxwell one will be closer to half X1's power. I don't like to use flops as argument, but Pascal Tegra is 750 Gflops and Maxwell Tegra is 512 Gflops. When translating this to X1 equivalent performance, it's probably even weaker.

I don't think this will have a lot of influence in how it succeds. The 3rd party support would be limited anyway, better to go with the cheaper SoC than try to make publishers happy. Just go for an aggressive 175 bucks price point. It's feasible.

It's like you didnt' read the post right above yours posted an hour before...
Using Pascal and newer fab architecture is not about beating X1 or pulling off miracles of performance.
But not using it needlessly gimps performance and will not achieve long term cost benefit.
The primary historic purpose of fab node progression is cost reduction after all.
Launching with an obsolete fab node means they will have to pay for serious redesign at later point, 
and they lock themselves out of benefits of designing around benefits of modern fab node in the first place.
The redesign costs are serious because it would not just be a simple shrink but move from 2d to 3d design.
If they go with 14nm or 10nm now, then moving to 7m 3d does not require redesign like 2d to 3d.



Teeqoz on 15 December 2016
Captain_Yuri said:
vivster said:

It would certainly fit with Nintendo's favorable stance on old hardware. But yeah, it would actually be ridiculous. Pascal is not that new and Maxwell is absically stone age tech. Would be weird even for Nintendo to go that route.

Then again Nintendo only cares about money and I'm sure they'd get those old Tegra chips for cheap.

Yea but 1 TF? The old Tegra X1 was 500 Gflops. I can understand Maxwell and Tegra X1 but I can't understand Maxwell and 1 TF, specially on a portable device.

Maybe FP16.



EricHiggin on 15 December 2016

NiN couldn't wait for Pascal and went with Maxwell because they couldn't wait since they are really worried about a competitor coming to market with a similar if not more advanced piece of mobile tech?

Hmm.. sounds a lot like the NiN stole the Aikun Morphus X300 idea. If there is any truth to this, I would be much more inclined to think that NiN thinks/knows something else is cooking at PS. A vita successor? PS4Portable maybe?

With PS going hardware crazy, I could see it being a possibility, and one that would actually worry NiN somewhat, based on PS's non stop momentum that can't seemed to the stopped.