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Forums - Sales Discussion - November 2016 NPD Thread! Hardware estimates in the OP!

SWORDF1SH on 09 December 2016
jason1637 said:
SWORDF1SH said:

Shu made a comment on this. He said they expected a lot of upgraders but he was surprised by how many Pros sold to first time buyers. So I don't think most were upgraders.

Gamestop said 40% of Xbox One S was sold through trade in. Since the pro is a bigger upgradr from PS4 in comparison  to XB1 yo XB1S i expect the majority to be from Pro.

 

I'm just going by what Shuhei said. I'd imagine that a store like Gamestop would have the highest amount of trade ins of all the brick and mortar stores so that data is offset. Then you have online stores which probably don't or very little trade ins. 

Even if it is over 40%, that's still not 'most'.



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Madword on 09 December 2016

There are lots of people wanting PS to show their numbers with the "BBF EVER" statement. It doesn't mean they will though. PS can do whatever they want.

The 50mil number is not all that matters. Adding software to that helps yes, but whats happenening with the competition matters a whole lot as well. A great example is when PS2 was selling like hot cakes, and Xbox was selling just ok. What ended up happening because PS didn't pay attention to what was happening at MS? The 360 launches a year before PS3 and steals tonnes of business from PS. The hardware, the games, the price, the launch, the "proor" Xbox sales, all contributed to this, and PS had put themselves in a horrible position.

If PS lets this happen again, they could very well suffer with Pro and PS5, if Scorpio turns out to be next gen. Again, this doesn't matter much as to PS4 sales, but the future of the brand most definitely, its all interlocked.

Haha lol.

So you are saying that the numbers in November for one country (USA) is more important than the total sales of a product? Seriously all that matters is the total number. Of course Sony might be a little disappointed that the PS4 is selling less in Japan, or down YOY in USA, but if the product is on target to sell more than the PS2, or still selling amazing numbers in total, are you sure that one country number (which we already know was their best BF weekend ever in that month), is more important? really? All that matters is that total number and the software total number and the PS+ numbers, and finally the revenue numbers, and we know that all of those numbers are really good.

Why are you bringing in PS5/Scorpio, they really has no bearing on anything right now, because it doesnt exist. If Scorpio turns out next gen (whatever that means as generations will become less aparent), still depends on many factors, price, power, exclusives, 1st party studios, marketing, countries released in... Sony are in a much better position than MS and MS know it... MS can try and push the narrative that the scorpio is the only real 4k machine with the best pixels ever seen, but if checkerboarding from Sony means that most games look the same and they are $100 cheaper (or more), and as always have the more diverse library, then "Next gen" scorpio is going to be a tough sell (and they know it).



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EricHiggin on 09 December 2016
Intrinsic said:
EricHiggin said:

 

Whats being said is just the possible reasoning behind PS not showing their numbers. There are legit reasons why they might not want to show them like how PS knows they've won this gen so they dont care, but its just as possible that PS is "losing ground" and wants to keep that hush hush. No business in their right mind goes out and tells people we're losing and hopes to keep the momentum going, especially with the launch of an updated product to the line up. This is why after years of PS boasting about their sales, it seems odd why they all of the sudden changed their tone.

If PS only won because of their Pro sales, its concerning to a degree. Yes they have Pro, yes they have a 6 month head start on Switch and around 1 year on Scorpio, but that just makes you wonder how much more ground can MS make up when Scorpio shows up to this gen. Even more concerning would be what if Scorpio shows up and its actually next gen, what then?

How Pro sales were divided up between existing PS4 users and new buyers also would help answer some questions, but 2017 sales should tell us that. If sales stay strong for Pro, no worries, if they slowly dwindle, its most likely because PS4 users were just upgrading.

Its all a bunch of what if's, and nobody knows for sure, but thats the conversation at hand. At the end of the day, PS won, which is great, and was likely, so congrats to them.

The issue with that is, all of this 8th gen Sony has never shown their numbers. Not once. So I have no idea where the years of PS boasting about sales is coming from. Right now that just sounds more like you are flat out lying. 

They only commemt on NPD results. This year their comment was best BF I'm the history of PlayStation. Last year it was PS4 was the number one console bla bla bla. They never give actual numbers. 

Sony only releases two sets of numbers. Shipment numbers in their fiscal reports and sell through numbers in their "milestone" reports. And those are alwsys global numbers. 

And I don't understand how Pro to slim split matters at all. The slim should and will always sell way better than the pro. For one simple reason. it's cheaper. It's no indication of if people are upgrading or not. There will always be fewer people willing to spend more for a console when they can get pretty much the same thing for less. Unless the people in question has a 4k TV. 

There is nothing strange here. or odd, except for the amount of spin we are seeing. 

So your saying you didn't say you wanted PS to show their numbers? That's funny because you did earlier. Yet when someone else wants to see the numbers as well they are stupid for wanting to see them?  Sure, ok?

Your getting your "numbers" mixed up. PS boasts about total, as per usual, thats nothing new. Its pretty clear its been that way most of the gen based on what you explained, so I'm not sure why your so confused. Must be all that spining your doing.

 

Madword said:

There are lots of people wanting PS to show their numbers with the "BBF EVER" statement. It doesn't mean they will though. PS can do whatever they want.

The 50mil number is not all that matters. Adding software to that helps yes, but whats happenening with the competition matters a whole lot as well. A great example is when PS2 was selling like hot cakes, and Xbox was selling just ok. What ended up happening because PS didn't pay attention to what was happening at MS? The 360 launches a year before PS3 and steals tonnes of business from PS. The hardware, the games, the price, the launch, the "proor" Xbox sales, all contributed to this, and PS had put themselves in a horrible position.

If PS lets this happen again, they could very well suffer with Pro and PS5, if Scorpio turns out to be next gen. Again, this doesn't matter much as to PS4 sales, but the future of the brand most definitely, its all interlocked.

Haha lol.

So you are saying that the numbers in November for one country (USA) is more important than the total sales of a product? Seriously all that matters is the total number. Of course Sony might be a little disappointed that the PS4 is selling less in Japan, or down YOY in USA, but if the product is on target to sell more than the PS2, or still selling amazing numbers in total, are you sure that one country number (which we already know was their best BF weekend ever in that month), is more important? really? All that matters is that total number and the software total number and the PS+ numbers, and finally the revenue numbers, and we know that all of those numbers are really good.

Why are you bringing in PS5/Scorpio, they really has no bearing on anything right now, because it doesnt exist. If Scorpio turns out next gen (whatever that means as generations will become less aparent), still depends on many factors, price, power, exclusives, 1st party studios, marketing, countries released in... Sony are in a much better position than MS and MS know it... MS can try and push the narrative that the scorpio is the only real 4k machine with the best pixels ever seen, but if checkerboarding from Sony means that most games look the same and they are $100 cheaper (or more), and as always have the more diverse library, then "Next gen" scorpio is going to be a tough sell (and they know it).

When did I say one set of numbers, one time, in one country is all that mattered? I clearly said there are way more things that matter when you look at it from the big picture.

Why bring up PS5/Scorpio? They don't exist? I dunno, why does anyone plan out what there doing tomorrow, or a week from now, or a month? I think you can understand how whats happening now will have an impact on them.



Ganoncrotch on 09 December 2016
SWORDF1SH said:
ArchangelMadzz said:
40 percent more people on Xbox live than last year? Of course! You had an entire years worth of sales, such a non statistic.

It's even worse than that, they compare just one day, Sunday 27th this year to Friday the 27th last year. Like WTF lol. Xbox Live uptake must be starting to stagnant if the refrained from using the whole months stats. I'm not American but do you usually see more people play on the Sunday comapred to the Friday? It's just strange that they chose to be very specific.

I think you missed the fine print on the fine print where it said 8:32AM too.



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Intrinsic on 09 December 2016
EricHiggin said:
Intrinsic said:

The issue with that is, all of this 8th gen Sony has never shown their numbers. Not once. So I have no idea where the years of PS boasting about sales is coming from. Right now that just sounds more like you are flat out lying. 

They only commemt on NPD results. This year their comment was best BF I'm the history of PlayStation. Last year it was PS4 was the number one console bla bla bla. They never give actual numbers. 

Sony only releases two sets of numbers. Shipment numbers in their fiscal reports and sell through numbers in their "milestone" reports. And those are alwsys global numbers. 

And I don't understand how Pro to slim split matters at all. The slim should and will always sell way better than the pro. For one simple reason. it's cheaper. It's no indication of if people are upgrading or not. There will always be fewer people willing to spend more for a console when they can get pretty much the same thing for less. Unless the people in question has a 4k TV. 

There is nothing strange here. or odd, except for the amount of spin we are seeing. 

So your saying you didn't say you wanted PS to show their numbers? That's funny because you did earlier. Yet when someone else wants to see the numbers as well they are stupid for wanting to see them?  Sure, ok?

Your getting your "numbers" mixed up. PS boasts about total, as per usual, thats nothing new. Its pretty clear its been that way most of the gen based on what you explained, so I'm not sure why your so confused. Must be all that spining your doing.

I said i would like them to show their NPD numbers. Which is also an acceptance of the fact that all of this gen they have not shown their NPD numbers. 

However, you are clearly pushing an agenda here, claiming that Sony has always been showing their numbers and are boastful do them but refusing to show numbers for this npd which according to you suggests something g is wromg.

That's all just one really bogus conspiracy theory cause none of what you are saying is true. 

I don't think I or anyone here has said that they wouldn't like to see the numbers, it's just strange that you take sony doing what they have done for the past 3yrs to suddenly mean they are hiding something. and that's what I'm disputing here. 

the only numbers Sony gives are shipment numners and sold through numbers when they hit certain milestones. If that is boasting to you then I'm sorry, I domt know what to say to that. 

but I'd you choose to continue, do us a favour. make it clear what exactly the point t you are trying to make is. 

if all you are saying is it would be nice to see numbers? then no one on this forum will argue with that. 

but if you are saying Sony always show NPD numbers and them not showing it now means they are hiding something, then it means you sre being disengenious and spreading misinformation. Basically you are lying. 

So which is it, cauee going off your original post I replied to it sounds firmly like the latter  



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EricHiggin on 09 December 2016
Intrinsic said:
EricHiggin said:

So your saying you didn't say you wanted PS to show their numbers? That's funny because you did earlier. Yet when someone else wants to see the numbers as well they are stupid for wanting to see them?  Sure, ok?

Your getting your "numbers" mixed up. PS boasts about total, as per usual, thats nothing new. Its pretty clear its been that way most of the gen based on what you explained, so I'm not sure why your so confused. Must be all that spining your doing.

I said i would like them to show their NPD numbers. Which is also an acceptance of the fact that all of this gen they have not shown their NPD numbers. 

However, you are clearly pushing an agenda here, claiming that Sony has always been showing their numbers and are boastful do them but refusing to show numbers for this npd which according to you suggests something g is wromg.

That's all just one really bogus conspiracy theory cause none of what you are saying is true. 

I don't think I or anyone here has said that they wouldn't like to see the numbers, it's just strange that you take sony doing what they have done for the past 3yrs to suddenly mean they are hiding something. and that's what I'm disputing here. 

the only numbers Sony gives are shipment numners and sold through numbers when they hit certain milestones. If that is boasting to you then I'm sorry, I domt know what to say to that. 

but I'd you choose to continue, do us a favour. make it clear what exactly the point t you are trying to make is. 

if all you are saying is it would be nice to see numbers? then no one on this forum will argue with that. 

but if you are saying Sony always show NPD numbers and them not showing it now means they are hiding something, then it means you sre being disengenious and spreading misinformation. Basically you are lying. 

So which is it, cauee going off your original post I replied to it sounds firmly like the latter  

When a person says "I think" or "maybe" or "could be" etc, its means they are guessing/voicing their opinion. When did the definition of those words change in the dictionary?

You even said Nintendo shares theirs, why not PS? Well everybody was voicing their opinion and guessing why. Just because their opinion doesn't match yours, doesn't make them wrong. Unless you work for PS and know something everyone else doesn't.

I made it clear I understood PS won, and said it was great, and congratulated them, and somehow that means I have an agenda against them? Heck I've had a PS4 for two years now, and don't own an XB1 and don't plan to. My last consoles were PS3, and 360, which my brother and I shared. I have no loyalty to one brand or the other.

My point was when companies or anybody really, wants to show off, and they show you what they want you to see, instead of showing you everything, like the numbers, then you can't help but wonder why they would hold those back. Usually its because they don't make the company look as good. Now is that the case here? Nobody knows. Maybe yes, maybe no.

This makes me a liar? I don't know how you trust anyone in that case. Why you would take this as gospel in the first place is questionable.



Intrinsic on 09 December 2016
EricHiggin said:

Whats being said is just the possible reasoning behind PS not showing their numbers. There are legit reasons why they might not want to show them like how PS knows they've won this gen so they dont care, but its just as possible that PS is "losing ground" and wants to keep that hush hush. No business in their right mind goes out and tells people we're losing and hopes to keep the momentum going, especially with the launch of an updated product to the line up.

 

This is why after years of PS boasting about their sales, it seems odd why they all of the sudden changed their tone.

 

I think you have lost travk of where this started . So let me point oit exactky what i responded to. 

See the bolded part? I divided into two parts for you. 

The first part. The "you think/might/maybe" part I have no issue with. That's just an opinion and you are entitled to have it. 

The second part, is what I have an issue with. Cause that is not an opinion anymore. you are making a statement. and that statement is false. 

It's false because since this gen started, Sony has not once announced their NPD numbers. They have not boasted about their sales. Meaning they have not changed any tone. If anything, them releasing NPD numbers (which would be great) would be them actually doing something different from what they have done these past three years. 

I have made it clear that I would like them to release numbers. That's not in debate here. You have given your opinion on why you think they don't, which I don't agree with but that's not in debate either. 

but you ended all that with a statement that suggests they are being dubious by not releasing their numbers. and cited them always boasting about them in the past so why stop now. And that statement is false.  



WebMasterFlex on 09 December 2016

It seems PS4's victory hurts some people. Be grateful there is no Europe NPD...



celador on 09 December 2016

So Playstation is now keeping their numbers "hush hush" about NPD, even though they never tell you exact numbers, and they just announced 50 million, but they are somehow hiding something?

And it's apparently because they might be losing ground, even though they don't lose ground even when they lose US and UK, and this month they won both anyway?

good grief what a load of shit



Jranation on 09 December 2016
WebMasterFlex said:
It seems PS4's victory hurts some people. Be grateful there is no Europe NPD...

Where have you been in the last couple months? Because XONE streak also hurt quite a few people. 

 

No surprise! People will get hurt no matter who wins. 



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