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Forums - Politics Discussion - 11 officers shot, 1 bystander shot during protests over recent shootings

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Last edited by OttoniBastos - on 24 July 2018

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TheBlackNaruto said:
Valdath said:

The drug dealer who was told not to move yet was still trying to reach the gun in his pocket.

You mean the one who was already on the ground with two grown men on top of him being told to "get on the ground" with a loaded gun in his chest? That one? The one who was supposedly trying to reach for his gun according to the officers who KNEW he had a gun befor even getting there yet handled the situation VERY poorly from the way the videos looked and eye witness account(the store owner) who was standing right there and didn't even see a gun until the man was already shot 5 times? Is that the guy who started it? Yeaaaaaaaahhhhhhh......seems legit

OT:

Another sad cycle and loss of life. Something has to change because people are getting fed up with this. It is going to be all out war at the rate things are going. I feel for the families of all involved in all the loss of life. This is not good at all and as a father it scares me because I have two children to raise...and I have to protect them no matter what.

This isn't even about race.

 

If police tells you to stop, you're supposed to stop, people need to respect authority.

Police have families and loved ones too, should they just let X gun them down because it would make them look racist? Hell no.



Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

Yes, you proved my point.  Like many who jump to "cop bad, 'criminal' just made a mistake" mentality, you HAVE to present only one side of the story or half of it to gain support.  If people knew the whole truth, they would not be so quick to support your side. 

And I never said the kid was a thug, only he was pretending to be one.  Which means he may have looked up to them, so who knows what his future would have brought.  But either way, you brandish a gun, act like a thug, and don't put it down when a cop tells you to (yes, even if you're white), and you will get shot.  It also doesn't help that he was all by himself, not playing with any other kid.  If he had been, instead of threatening random people who walked by (which is NOT an acceptable form of play, by any standards), then he'd most likely be alive.

The problem with your side is you see everything in hindsight.  Which is 20/20 as they say.  You don't think those cops felt miserable when they found out it was a toy?  Of course they did.  It probably still haunts them.  But, there was NO way for them to know.  And the second he won't put it away and points it at them, you're damn right they fired.  You would have done the same damn thing, though I doubt you would admit it.

As for your last paragraph, let's be honest here.  The only reason we are even hearing about any of these instances is because the victims are black.  It allows people to push an agenda and even more vile people to make their living.  Without the race war, many would be out of a job.  For example, had that child been white and the cops black, which I'm sure has happened plenty of times, it would have been buried as a local story for us to never hear of again.  Of course, I would have had the same opinion, regardless of race.

How many white kids get shot by cops for having a toy gun? I don't recall it happening much at all. A kid with a toy gun shouldn't be shot period. How about that?

There is racial bias, of course there is, cops are human, and as such some of them are going to be shitty people. Just like the real world has shitty people. 

The problem with the police department is these cops in most cases get off scott free after murdering someone because the police are loathe to admit that they may have some officers who acted poorly. With social media they can't hide it anymore, there's a camera now everywhere. 

And you continue to prove my point.  Hindsight and halftruths are your side's only tool.  If the cops thought it was a toy gun, then they could have reacted as such.  But, at that moment, they thought it was real.  There was no indication it was a toy.  The orange tip that was put on it BY LAW so this crap doesn't happen, was purposely removed so it would look real.

So, I guess in your mind if someone held up a bank or was holding someone hostage with a fake or real gun, then the cops pulled up and demanded he drop it, yet he points it at them, they shouldn't fire?  They better make damn sure 100% by touching or getting really close to make sure it is real, otherwise we're going to tear them down?  Going to be a lot of dead cops and innocent civilians if that is your requirement.  Your bias speaks volumes.

There were at least 28 people shot and killed in 2015 for holding a BB guns.  I highly doubt they were all black.  I did find a story about a Hispanic boy who was shot and killed in 2013 for holding one.  Not sure why that didn't cause a national outcry.  Hmm.  Just because the media doesn't make a big deal or the nation doesn't has a week/month long discussion, because a white kid was shot for holding a fake gun, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  To act like it doesn't trivializes their lives.  Though, that may be the point.  Only BLM, after all.



sc94597 said:
SvennoJ said:

Won't happen ofcourse, cause low taxes are more important.

Do you realize how much is spent on police force pensions and benefits, and the militarization thereof (buying tanks and hellicopters in small suburban municaplities)? What does low taxes have to do with anything. It is mismanagement of the taxes they have. 

I was under the impression that the police force was strained due to always ongoing budget cuts, hence the shortcuts on training etc.
Yet if you say it's used to buy expensive toys instead of more feet on the ground, that's actually worse :(



thismeintiel said:
Soundwave said:

How many white kids get shot by cops for having a toy gun? I don't recall it happening much at all. A kid with a toy gun shouldn't be shot period. How about that?

There is racial bias, of course there is, cops are human, and as such some of them are going to be shitty people. Just like the real world has shitty people. 

The problem with the police department is these cops in most cases get off scott free after murdering someone because the police are loathe to admit that they may have some officers who acted poorly. With social media they can't hide it anymore, there's a camera now everywhere. 

And you continue to prove my point.  Hindsight and halftruths are your side's only tool.  If the cops thought it was a toy gun, then they could have reacted as such.  But, at that moment, they thought it was real.  There was no indication it was a toy.  The orange tip that was put on it BY LAW so this crap doesn't happen, was purposely removed so it would look real.

So, I guess in your mind if someone held up a bank or was holding someone hostage with a fake or real gun, then the cops pulled up and demanded he drop it, yet he points it at them, they shouldn't fire?  They better make damn sure 100% by touching or getting really close to make sure it is real, otherwise we're going to tear them down?  Going to be a lot of dead cops and innocent civilians if that is your requirement.  Your bias speaks volumes.

Well for starters other countries do handle situations like that differently. Maybe the police should evaulate the way they respond in a situation like that (a kid holding a toy gun for example likely doesn't lead to death if this is say ... Germany). Maybe they should have better screening and training for their freaking officers too. Maybe you shouldn't be able to walk off the street and become a cop in less than a year. Maybe tasers or other non-leathal weapons need to be employed moreso so that the default isn't "oh, I don't know exactly what's happening here is he reaching for a wallet or maybe a gun, I'll just shoot and figure the rest out later".

I'm sorry but that's not good enough. 

It seems to be as a police officer you can make a "whoops ... oopsie, I made a mistake" of murdering someone and then basically get off with a slap on the wrist most of the time. And that's where people begin to get angry. 



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See I told you the shooters would be black.

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SvennoJ said:
sc94597 said:

Do you realize how much is spent on police force pensions and benefits, and the militarization thereof (buying tanks and hellicopters in small suburban municaplities)? What does low taxes have to do with anything. It is mismanagement of the taxes they have. 

I was under the impression that the police force was strained due to always ongoing budget cuts, hence the shortcuts on training etc.
Yet if you say it's used to buy expensive toys instead of more feet on the ground, that's actually worse :(

Yep, it's been an ongoing problem since 9/11. They get federal funds to buy all of these toys, but some of the bill is from the states and cities as well. Pretty much nobody likes it except the police themselves. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/war-gear-flows-to-police-departments.html

" Inside the municipal garage of this small lakefront city, parked next to the hefty orange snowplow, sits an even larger truck, this one painted in desert khaki. Weighing 30 tons and built to withstand land mines, the armored combat vehicle is one of hundreds showing up across the country, in police departments big and small."

"
During the Obama administration, according to Pentagon data, police departments have received tens of thousands of machine guns; nearly 200,000 ammunition magazines; thousands of pieces of camouflage and night-vision equipment; and hundreds of silencers, armored cars and aircraft."

"
The equipment has been added to the armories of police departments that already look and act like military units. Police SWAT teams are now deployed tens of thousands of times each year, increasingly for routine jobs.Masked, heavily armed police officers in Louisiana raided a nightclub in 2006 as part of a liquor inspection. In Florida in 2010, officers in SWAT gear and with guns drawn carried out raids on barbershops that mostly led only to charges of “barbering without a license.”"

"A quiet city of about 25,000 people, Neenah has a violent crime rate that is far below the national average. Neenah has not had a homicide in more than five years."






Daramu said:
See I told you the shooters would be black.

Dude, stop.



thismeintiel said:

Yes, you proved my point.  Like many who jump to "cop bad, 'criminal' just made a mistake" mentality, you HAVE to present only one side of the story or half of it to gain support.  If people knew the whole truth, they would not be so quick to support your side. 

And I never said the kid was a thug, only he was pretending to be one.  Which means he may have looked up to them, so who knows what his future would have brought.  But either way, you brandish a gun, act like a thug, and don't put it down when a cop tells you to (yes, even if you're white), and you will get shot.  It also doesn't help that he was all by himself, not playing with any other kid.  If he had been, instead of threatening random people who walked by (which is NOT an acceptable form of play, by any standards), then he'd most likely be alive.

The problem with your side is you see everything in hindsight.  Which is 20/20 as they say.  You don't think those cops felt miserable when they found out it was a toy?  Of course they did.  It probably still haunts them.  But, there was NO way for them to know.  And the second he won't put it away and points it at them, you're damn right they fired.  You would have done the same damn thing, though I doubt you would admit it.

As for your last paragraph, let's be honest here.  The only reason we are even hearing about any of these instances is because the victims are black.  It allows people to push an agenda and even more vile people to make their living.  Without the race war, many would be out of a job.  For example, had that child been white and the cops black, which I'm sure has happened plenty of times, it would have been buried as a local story for us to never hear of again.  Of course, I would have had the same opinion, regardless of race.

Okay you have lost me...first your point was about perpeuating a lie now it is about cop bad criminal made a mistake? I know the whole turth about the situation we are discussing at hand right now. This CHILD was playing alone in a park by himself with a toy gun that looked real. He was walking up to people acting like he was going to shoot them and pretty much just being a child. Guess what kids do that...has nothing to do with pretending to be a thug or even looking up to them at all. Not saying it is good for a child to do that but they do. No one was hurt, no shots were fired the only thing the cops had was that the gun LOOKED real from a distance.

I don't know if the cops felt miserable or not. They sure didn't go out of their way to let it be known that they did. But as a human i would want to think that they did. Even though drawing guns on a lone child because he as what appears to be gun is still beyond me. There have been plenty of instances where cops have told someone to put a gun down and they did not comply without being killed. So no I am not in agreement that they should have fired and no I can't say that I would have fired becuase it doesn't make sense to just unload on a child from a distance at all.

And lastly...you can't be serious so you are really telling me that you feel it would no thave made the news if a white child playing with a toy gun was gunned down by black cops? And you are sure it has happened plenty of times? I literally have no words for that because I am at a loss as to how you could even say that with a straight face.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

SuaveSocialist said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

 I am fine YOU are missing the point. I watch and follow all of the news of white people being shot and killed by these trigger happy cops that are not properly trained. I know more whites have been killed by cops than blacks I pay attention to all of that. I fear for every race when dealing with cops now a day. But because of the history of blacks with cops and things that have been going on behind the scenes far before social media and smart phones this is having a bigger effect because it is something that has been talked about and said to be going on since before either of us were born yet pushed to the side like it was nothing. I know how it is to be profiled and targeted by officers and it is not cool. You can't say something isn't true just because you have never experienced it. I am not one of the it is all about race people I am one of the these cops are not being properly trained and are not handling situations correctly out here people and a majority of them just happen to be black.

And trust me there is FAR more than what is being shown on the news as a black male I have witnessed it first hand so don't give me the you are being played line. This is a reality for a majority of black males and it is being brought to light that is what this is. This system is broken and corrupt through and through. But I do not let it bind me, hold me down or stop me but it HAS to change. You can't tell someone who has witnessed these things first hand they are being played by the news/media because we know it to be true. This isn't fake this is reality. 

And don't get me wrong this is nothing personal against you it is just that it gets tiresome when people constantly tell you that the life you have lived and those around you have lived is pretty much false and just the news/media trying to get you stirred up.

Hopefully, this being brought into the light is the precursor for change.  Overseas, I don't know if there is anything I can do to facilitate this change, but the reality that black American males are enduring is one that goes against the very ideas upon which America was founded. 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.  --The Declaration of Independence

Yeah me too I hope thing schange as well as they very well need to.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23