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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why are Sony and Microsoft closing first party studios?

Dulfite said:

 

 

1) You brought up the 360/ps3 generation by saying Halo 3 and TLOU. That is not my fault. If you wannt compare gen 6 or 5 or whatever gen, I'd be happy to, but you brought up that gen.

2) What on Earth makes you think people don't want 1st party Nintendo games now? Notice the 1st party game sales. Yes they are less than Wii but that is because a TON less Wii U's have sold and will sell compared to Wii. In fact, there were 7.8 x more Wii's sold than Wii U's (as of today) So you'd think that would mean that 1st party game sales would be 7.8x less using your logic right? Wii U top 8 sales are 35.02 million units sold makes it 7.6 x less. Which means that proportionally, the amount of people buying 1st party games per console has increased, slightly, by .2 times, hardly a decrease let alone fulfilling your opinion of "people don't want Nintendo 1st party games now (if they did they would have bought a Wii U)."

3) And you proved a massive point by showing how Nintendo still has the best selling exclusive this gen despite having a massive amount less hardware sold.

4) Playstation as hardware is incredibly strong, because 3rd parties made it. Their 1st software itself isn't that strong. And if the Wii had HD tech like the ps3, the gap would have been an insane amount larger than 20 mil. People wanted Wii's, but they also wanted high definition games (which the Wii couldn't provide) so a lot of people ended up with two devices. If people could have played hd multiplatform games from 3rd parties on the Wii a ton of them wouldn't have bought a ps3 I'm sure.

1 Mario Kart 8 WiiU 2014 Racing Nintendo 3.09 2.00 1.23 0.49 6.81
2 New Super Mario Bros. U WiiU 2012 Platform Nintendo 2.33 1.23 1.27 0.30 5.13
3 Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS WiiU 2014 Fighting Nintendo 2.75 1.02 0.77 0.36 4.90
4 Nintendo Land WiiU 2012 Misc Nintendo 2.54 1.09 0.46 0.33 4.41
5 Splatoon WiiU 2015 Shooter Nintendo 1.69 1.09 1.32 0.27 4.36
6 Super Mario 3D World WiiU 2013 Platform Nintendo 2.09 1.07 0.72 0.30 4.17
7 Super Mario Maker WiiU 2015 Platform Nintendo 1.15 0.82 0.87 0.19 3.02
8 New Super Luigi U WiiU 2013 Platform Nintendo 1.27 0.61 0.18 0.16 2.22
9 Wii Party U WiiU 2013 Misc Nintendo 0.33 0.52 0.83 0.08 1.76
10 The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker WiiU 2013 Action Nintendo 0.89 0.52 0.14 0.12 1.67
11 Mario Party 10 WiiU 2015 Misc Nintendo 0.68 0.48 0.23 0.11 1.49
12 Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze WiiU 2014 Platform Nintendo 0.71 0.47 0.15 0.11 1.45
13 Hyrule Warriors WiiU 2014 Action Nintendo 0.61 0.41 0.13 0.09 1.24
14 Yoshi's Woolly World WiiU 2015 Platform Nintendo 0.58 0.45 0.11 0.10 1.24
15 Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker WiiU 2014 Puzzle Nintendo 0.55 0.34 0.19 0.09 1.16
16 Pikmin 3 WiiU 2013 Strategy Nintendo 0.43 0.29 0.29 0.06 1








Sony's first party on PS4 will outsell Nintendos first party on WiiU. 



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Dulfite said:
Ka-pi96 said:

So you're going to bring the Wii games in to this? Which completely flopped this gen and are practically 'non-existent' now...

Besides, compare any other gen and Nintendo certainly isn't always that strong. PS hasn't yet got an exclusive that has outsold the best selling Wii U exclusive, but with how successful Uncharted 4 looks to be it may well have soon.

So what of gen 6?

3. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec 2001 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 6.85 5.09 1.87 1.16 14.98
1. Super Smash Bros. Melee 2001 Fighting Nintendo 4.41 1.04 1.39 0.22 7.07
1. Halo 2 2004 Shooter Microsoft Game Studios 6.82 1.53 0.05 0.08 8.49

Sony had the highest selling 1st party game that generation, by quite a large margin as well. Not only that but Microsoft's best selling 1st party game also outsold Nintendo's best, on a console with a comparable install base no less.

Gen 5?

1. Super Mario 64 1996 Platform Nintendo 6.91 2.85 1.91 0.23 11.89
1. Gran Turismo 1997 Racing Sony Computer Entertainment 4.02 3.87 2.54 0.52 10.95

Super Mario 64 sold more than Gran Turismo, yes. But it's not exactly a large difference.

Besides, you haven't addressed the most important point. If people don't want Nintendo 1st party games now (if they did they would have bought a Wii U) why is having 3rd party games alone suddenly going to make Nintendo's 1st party more appealing?

As far as I see it it's simply not possible for Nintendo to 'wipe the floor globally' unless Sony screws up because the PlayStation brand is just that strong. Even when Sony did screw up (PS3) and Nintendo had their most successful home console to date the gap is still less than 20m. Yes, they could win a generation, but it's going to take a more than just getting 3rd party support to do that.

1) You brought up the 360/ps3 generation by saying Halo 3 and TLOU. That is not my fault. If you wannt compare gen 6 or 5 or whatever gen, I'd be happy to, but you brought up that gen.

2) What on Earth makes you think people don't want 1st party Nintendo games now? Notice the 1st party game sales. Yes they are less than Wii but that is because a TON less Wii U's have sold and will sell compared to Wii. In fact, there were 7.8 x more Wii's sold than Wii U's (as of today) So you'd think that would mean that 1st party game sales would be 7.8x less using your logic right? Wii U top 8 sales are 35.02 million units sold makes it 7.6 x less. Which means that proportionally, the amount of people buying 1st party games per console has increased, slightly, by .2 times, hardly a decrease let alone fulfilling your opinion of "people don't want Nintendo 1st party games now (if they did they would have bought a Wii U)."

3) And you proved a massive point by showing how Nintendo still has the best selling exclusive this gen despite having a massive amount less hardware sold.

4) Playstation as hardware is incredibly strong, because 3rd parties made it. Their 1st software itself isn't that strong. And if the Wii had HD tech like the ps3, the gap would have been an insane amount larger than 20 mil. People wanted Wii's, but they also wanted high definition games (which the Wii couldn't provide) so a lot of people ended up with two devices. If people could have played hd multiplatform games from 3rd parties on the Wii a ton of them wouldn't have bought a ps3 I'm sure.

1 Mario Kart 8 WiiU 2014 Racing Nintendo 3.09 2.00 1.23 0.49 6.81
2 New Super Mario Bros. U WiiU 2012 Platform Nintendo 2.33 1.23 1.27 0.30 5.13
3 Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS WiiU 2014 Fighting Nintendo 2.75 1.02 0.77 0.36 4.90
4 Nintendo Land WiiU 2012 Misc Nintendo 2.54 1.09 0.46 0.33 4.41
5 Splatoon WiiU 2015 Shooter Nintendo 1.69 1.09 1.32 0.27 4.36
6 Super Mario 3D World WiiU 2013 Platform Nintendo 2.09 1.07 0.72 0.30 4.17
7 Super Mario Maker WiiU 2015 Platform Nintendo 1.15 0.82 0.87 0.19 3.02
8 New Super Luigi U WiiU 2013 Platform Nintendo 1.27 0.61 0.18 0.16 2.22
9 Wii Party U WiiU 2013 Misc Nintendo 0.33 0.52 0.83 0.08 1.76
10 The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker WiiU 2013 Action Nintendo 0.89 0.52 0.14 0.12 1.67
11 Mario Party 10 WiiU 2015 Misc Nintendo 0.68 0.48 0.23 0.11 1.49
12 Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze WiiU 2014 Platform Nintendo 0.71 0.47 0.15 0.11 1.45
13 Hyrule Warriors WiiU 2014 Action Nintendo 0.61 0.41 0.13 0.09 1.24
14 Yoshi's Woolly World WiiU 2015 Platform Nintendo 0.58 0.45 0.11 0.10 1.24
15 Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker WiiU 2014 Puzzle Nintendo 0.55 0.34 0.19 0.09 1.16
16 Pikmin 3 WiiU 2013 Strategy Nintendo 0.43 0.29 0.29 0.06 1.07

"And if the Wii had HD tech like the PS3" it would've costed about twice as much as it did, and would have seen much less success than what it did. On the other hand, if they had been able to achieve the same price, but *still* be HD capable like the PS3, then Nintendo would have to be wizards. Whichever of those you choose, the proposition is so silly that it's not even worthy of discussion.



Unpopular opinion: I think Media Molecule is going to be next for Sony. The concept of Dreams is just so far out there, I don't think its going to sell well.



Platinums: Red Dead Redemption, Killzone 2, LittleBigPlanet, Terminator Salvation, Uncharted 1, inFamous Second Son, Rocket League

hoala said:

So both sony and microsoft just recently closed a first party studio (Sony = Evolution Studios; Microsoft: Lionhead Studios).

Why do you think are they doing this? IMO its extremly important to have as many first party studios as possible as a console manufacture. Both studios arnt known to be unsuccesfull either.

Driveclub from evolution studios sold 2mio units retail so far, adding digitally sales we are probl around 2,5-3 mio units. Its the most beatifull racing game so far and its also more then microsoft is selling with the forza series on their xbox one.

Even if a game/project turns out to be unsuccesfull, those studios could easily just work on other games/ips. Especially Microsoft is not in the need of saving money as well.

 

So why are they doing that?

Dunno about Sony. But with MS, Lionhead must be an expensive studio to maintain. And its quite likely that they haven't shipped a successful product in a long time. So rather than kept paying out for no return it made more sense to close them down.

Give it a year MS will make a new fable studio like they did with Halo and Gears. 



JOKA_ said:
Unpopular opinion: I think Media Molecule is going to be next for Sony. The concept of Dreams is just so far out there, I don't think its going to sell well.

I might have to agree with you on that one, I think Dreams is going to be complex for the ordinairy gamer which isn't an artist. I might be wrong, but where LBP remains pretty simple I can only imagine making a good level in dreams is nearly impossible. Making a good 3D design is tough as a cookie, I still want it but I can see it becoming a commercial flop really. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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JOKA_ said:
Unpopular opinion: I think Media Molecule is going to be next for Sony. The concept of Dreams is just so far out there, I don't think its going to sell well.

Media Molecule have the advantage of being low-staffed.

Compared to the likes of Naughty Dog (~300), Polyphony Digital (~150), Santa Monica (~200) and Guerrilla Games (~250), Media Molecule are a baby studio with around 50 employees. Possibly worth keeping on, if only to fill up spots at conventions and provide content for VR.



                            

Areaz32 said:
Sony closed down Evolution because their games overlapped a lot with another huge studio they have.
It just wouldn't make sense to have another realistic racer like that.

Luckily Codemasters did dissagree about that and still sees a market or arcade racers on consoles. Besides they could have made Motorstorm PS4, since that doesn't compete with GT. But considering Sony doesn't see a market for that game either they closed down the studio. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

JOKA_ said:
Unpopular opinion: I think Media Molecule is going to be next for Sony. The concept of Dreams is just so far out there, I don't think its going to sell well.

Looking at Tearaway's performance, I think I can agree with this. I can see them getting one more chance, but they'll definitely be on the hotseat if Dreams flops. 

EDIT: Qwark beat me to it lol. 



Evolution has 1 hit and that's Driveclub. That had a botched launch, was a disaster for several months and this was after being delayed for over a quite some time. It's quite possible that SIE expected better than the 2.5M the game sold. Every other game they've made except perhaps Motorstorm Pacific Rift has sold poorly if you ask me. Pacific Rift also launched as a sequel to a game that was taken to nearly 4M sales via bundling. Pacific Rift only got roughly a third of it's predecessor. That says a lot.



4 ≈ One

People buy third party, first party at least with Sony and MS hasn't fared so well, it's just business