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Forums - Gaming Discussion - We need to talk about Superman for a second..(Batman vs Superman spoilers)

Neodegenerate on 11 April 2016
Hynad said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

In Batman vs Superman he was working with the president (the animation based on the comic). Batman doesnt trust him. In fact batman didnt trust any member of the justice league, hence why hes created failsafe plans for them in the past. 

Batman V Superman, animated? You mean the Dark Knight Returns Part 2.


Anyway, that's why I said [most] comics. And while The Dark Knight Returns is praised by most, I thought Miller's interpretation of Superman was completely off and disrespectful of the character. 

In any case, what happens in Frank Miller's story is irrelevent to what happens in the new movies. Both are their own things.

I felt like Miller's interpretation of Superman, giving the tone of his book, was pretty well done.  After all, Superman is only working with the gov at that point because the options are to work with them or not help people at all.

BatVSupes should've been a movie where Superman found himself and started to become the hope that he has been known for throughout his history.  Instead what we got was a continuation of the concepts that were laid out (and IMO, done much better) in MoS.  I can understand the idea that without Superman the world would need a Justice League to compensate.  However, in this movie universe, I would think that they would just be glad to be done with Superman entirely and move on regardless.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 11 April 2016
binary solo said:
They didn't give Batman much detecting to do. It was basically Superman is a dick because he destroyed lots of buildings and people died. There wasn't all that much of a mystery to solve. The thing I hated most about Batman's characterisation was that he killed a bunch of people like a rampaging Schwarzenegger.

Superman wasnt being a dick destroying buildings. Superman fighting Kryptonians has no different of an effect than Goku fighting Vegeta in a city. Goku wouldnt be able to stop the damage, so why should superman be expected to? These guys arent the avengers who were lead by government agents who know how to strategize for an isolated fight.

Even Batman ran for his life as Doomsday destroyed buildings.



Hynad on 11 April 2016
Neodegenerate said:
Hynad said:

Batman V Superman, animated? You mean the Dark Knight Returns Part 2.


Anyway, that's why I said [most] comics. And while The Dark Knight Returns is praised by most, I thought Miller's interpretation of Superman was completely off and disrespectful of the character. 

In any case, what happens in Frank Miller's story is irrelevent to what happens in the new movies. Both are their own things.

I felt like Miller's interpretation of Superman, giving the tone of his book, was pretty well done.  After all, Superman is only working with the gov at that point because the options are to work with them or not help people at all.

BatVSupes should've been a movie where Superman found himself and started to become the hope that he has been known for throughout his history.  Instead what we got was a continuation of the concepts that were laid out (and IMO, done much better) in MoS.  I can understand the idea that without Superman the world would need a Justice League to compensate.  However, in this movie universe, I would think that they would just be glad to be done with Superman entirely and move on regardless.

That's probably what they'd do, if not for the threat that will come in Justice League.

My problem with most critics is that they don't  watch such movies for what they are and what they tell. They look at it for what it could have told, based on what has already been told before. With this kind of thinking, I can't help but think people should stick to the comics or whatever stories they like, instead of going to see different takes. They want the stories that have already been told, be told once again in the same way but in movies. That's the best way to show artistic bankrupcy. 



Hynad on 11 April 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Hynad said:

Batman V Superman, animated? You mean the Dark Knight Returns Part 2.


Anyway, that's why I said [most] comics. And while The Dark Knight Returns is praised by most, I thought Miller's interpretation of Superman was completely off and disrespectful of the character. 

In any case, what happens in Frank Miller's story is irrelevent to what happens in the new movies. Both are their own take.

Snyder shares similar views to Miller. Its not the first time Snyder has made a miller rendition, even if Dark Knight returns isnt cannon this is the DC universe the people will get to know.

Similar. Not the same. Snyder respects Miller. But he obviously isn't doing the same thing. 



S.T.A.G.E. on 11 April 2016
Neodegenerate said:
Hynad said:

Batman V Superman, animated? You mean the Dark Knight Returns Part 2.


Anyway, that's why I said [most] comics. And while The Dark Knight Returns is praised by most, I thought Miller's interpretation of Superman was completely off and disrespectful of the character. 

In any case, what happens in Frank Miller's story is irrelevent to what happens in the new movies. Both are their own things.

I felt like Miller's interpretation of Superman, giving the tone of his book, was pretty well done.  After all, Superman is only working with the gov at that point because the options are to work with them or not help people at all.

BatVSupes should've been a movie where Superman found himself and started to become the hope that he has been known for throughout his history.  Instead what we got was a continuation of the concepts that were laid out (and IMO, done much better) in MoS.  I can understand the idea that without Superman the world would need a Justice League to compensate.  However, in this movie universe, I would think that they would just be glad to be done with Superman entirely and move on regardless.

Exactly. They dont need superman. Wonder Woman was the first person in the group to draw first blood on Doomsday to begin with.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 11 April 2016
Hynad said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Snyder shares similar views to Miller. Its not the first time Snyder has made a miller rendition, even if Dark Knight returns isnt cannon this is the DC universe the people will get to know.

Similar. Not the same. Snyder respects Miller. But he obviously isn't doing the same thing. 

Yes, miller had a little bit more respect for Supermans power by providing distractions for Batmans advantage, otherwise Superman would've handled it. Also, Superman had more awareness of who he was and where he stood with the people. It made more sense that way that there were guided team efforts to take him out because Bats cant beat him without a plan.



Hynad on 11 April 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Hynad said:

Similar. Not the same. Snyder respects Miller. But he obviously isn't doing the same thing. 

Yes, miller had a little bit more respect for Supermans power by providing distractions for Batmans advantage, otherwise Superman would've handled it. It made more sense that way that there were guided team efforts to take him out because Bats cant beat him without a plan.

Batman did have a plan against an unsuspecting Superman in BvS. A Superman that has never yet had to deal with a human having such ressources against him, and was thus not prepared/taken by surprised by Batman.



S.T.A.G.E. on 11 April 2016
Hynad said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Yes, miller had a little bit more respect for Supermans power by providing distractions for Batmans advantage, otherwise Superman would've handled it. It made more sense that way that there were guided team efforts to take him out because Bats cant beat him without a plan.

Batman did have a plan against an unsuspecting Superman in BvS. A Superman that has never yet had to deal with a human having such ressources against him.

I understand that he was unsuspecting and I understand the universe hes in. It makes sense that a matured and psychotic batman batman would whip his ass. Better yet when he comes back to life put him to work against outsiders. LOL Ive never seen superman being anyones bitch beyond his control other than now.



Hynad on 11 April 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Hynad said:

Batman did have a plan against an unsuspecting Superman in BvS. A Superman that has never yet had to deal with a human having such ressources against him.

I understand that he was unsuspecting and I understand the universe hes in. It makes sense that a matured and psychotic batman batman would whip his ass. Better yet when he comes back to life put him to work against outsiders. LOL Ive never seen superman being anyones bitch beyond his control other than now.

I don't think you are using the expression "anyone's bitch" properly... 

In any case, I don't feel like explaining the entire movie to you, so I'll stop here and go catch some sleep.



Neodegenerate on 11 April 2016
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Neodegenerate said:

I felt like Miller's interpretation of Superman, giving the tone of his book, was pretty well done.  After all, Superman is only working with the gov at that point because the options are to work with them or not help people at all.

BatVSupes should've been a movie where Superman found himself and started to become the hope that he has been known for throughout his history.  Instead what we got was a continuation of the concepts that were laid out (and IMO, done much better) in MoS.  I can understand the idea that without Superman the world would need a Justice League to compensate.  However, in this movie universe, I would think that they would just be glad to be done with Superman entirely and move on regardless.

Exactly. They dont need superman. Wonder Woman was the first person in the group to draw first blood on Doomsday to begin with.

I thought Wonder Woman was great in the film.  I initially had an issue with how little development and screen time she had, but with her movie coming out next after Suicide Squad it makes sense.

A while back I was at a comic-con panel with one of DC's writers and he mentioned that in the writing room they have this unspoken thing called "The Superman Dilemma."  What it essentially boils down to is "how do we keep Superman out of this fight to keep it interesting enough to tell the story?"  When the Justice League goes up against Darkseid or Doomsday, no problem.  Superman needs to be there the whole time as they are Gods/Kryptonians in their own right.  When they are up against someone with a little less power, like say Eclipso, Superman could just finish the fight in about 5 seconds.  So, how do you keep him out of it?  In this cinematic universe, killing him for a bit certainly solves that dilemma for them.  Now they can build the Justice League and show them doing well, then have Darksied or someone show up, and Supes comes in and save the day after all hope is lost.

My only hope is that the resurrected Superman has less angst and more hope himself.  I enjoy the look of Cavill as Superman, but after two movies the feel of him as Superman is starting to wear on me.