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Forums - Gaming Discussion - We need to talk about Superman for a second..(Batman vs Superman spoilers)

d21lewis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

1.)We know the primary gist as to where Captain America an iron man stand if you've read the comics.  It doesnt matter who wins or loses except for the fact that Marvel is salvaging whats left of the storylines they have licenses to with more grace than studios that have all of the rights to their characters and stories. Personally, I think its cooler to let bucky go crazy and cause mayhem as a catalyst rather than nobodies causing the issues to start like the comics. Since Marvel has no rights to the Xmen franchise they need story that can test the philosophical depths between superheroes the civilization they live in and the conflict within and outside of themselves. This is what will be going on in civil war. 2.) I dont know what destruction you're talking about. The Marvel Universe has had far less destruction than DC. Lets not go there...shall we? Theres something called a perimeter and I doubt anyone in the DC comic universes know what that is. 

 

In the end...all they showed was the action. We all know Civil War is one of the more through provoking story archs in marvel lore when it comes to rights and human society. Much like Batman vs Superman, Civil War will take on the burden of having their superheroes question the extent of their power on earth and as it pertains to the people. The difference is it actually dealt with the depths of every superheroes idea of what is right or wrong when it comes to the needs of the public safety and individual human rights. They contemplate the difference between the philosophy of being a citizen or a protector.The right to your own identity rather than selling out who you are just to make the people safe. The decision is tough. Again....a much deeper plot than BVS...so ...yeah.

1.) I don't believe you've read the comics.  Not for a second.  If you did, you either

A.) don't remember what they were about or B.) didn't understand what they were about.

You think it's better for Bucky to go crazy and cause mayhem?  In the comics, it was a bunch of young heroes (The New Warriors aren't a "bunch of nobodies", either.  They've been around for decades!) who were undertrained.  They tried to stop some villains and blew up a school.  That was the final straw.  Before that, there were several storylines in which the public was losing its patience with all of the colllateral damage and heroes pretty much doing whatever they wanted in the Marvel Universe.  The point of Civil War in the comics was to either register with the government or become a felon.  Captain America wanted heroes to be able to keep their secret identity.  Iron Man wanted them to register.  It blew up from there.  Not sure what you thought it was about.  And, watching the trailer, I don't think the plot is "Bucky goes crazy and causes mayhem".  I have my guesses but I'm like 90% sure it's not what you think.

 

2.)  "You don't know what destrucktion Nem is talking about"?  Seriously, dude!?!  The destruction that Marvel THEMSELVES show in the Civil War TRAILER.  There is a whole part in the beginning of the trailer where they're showing the Avengers the damage from the first two Avengers movies and Winter Soldier.  Nobody is "going there" or comparing it to the DC Universe.  You seem to have selective memory and a need to attack DC comics!  Nobody said that DC caused more, less, or equal damage to the damage in Man of Steel or BvS.  Where did that reply even come from?Then, you go on to say that "all we've seen is action" but, at the same time tell us how deep the movie will be. 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it.  You don't like DC comics.  You like Marvel.  Nothing wrong with that.  The problem is, you can't accurately explain why you like Marvel over DC.  You don't read the comics from either, based on what I've seen here.  You forgive things that Marvel has done (ie: tossing everthing and the kitchen sink in Age of Ultron including a random scene tying into Thor 3, the creation of Vision , a relationship between Black Widow and Hulk that came out of nowhere, and a story that continued from Agents of Shield TV show) but criticize DC for doing the same thing.  You don't read the comics but you constantly try to use them as a crutch in your arguments.  You've done this throughout your thread and I'm going to start calling you out on it.

I'm actually beginning to wonder if you're just posting things to get a reaction out of DC comics fans.  I've said before, I like DC comics more but I've read thousands of Marvel Comics. I like them both.   If I post something, better believe I know what I'm talking about.

Lewis, I love you.



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d21lewis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

1.)We know the primary gist as to where Captain America an iron man stand if you've read the comics.  It doesnt matter who wins or loses except for the fact that Marvel is salvaging whats left of the storylines they have licenses to with more grace than studios that have all of the rights to their characters and stories. Personally, I think its cooler to let bucky go crazy and cause mayhem as a catalyst rather than nobodies causing the issues to start like the comics. Since Marvel has no rights to the Xmen franchise they need story that can test the philosophical depths between superheroes the civilization they live in and the conflict within and outside of themselves. This is what will be going on in civil war. 2.) I dont know what destruction you're talking about. The Marvel Universe has had far less destruction than DC. Lets not go there...shall we? Theres something called a perimeter and I doubt anyone in the DC comic universes know what that is. 

 

In the end...all they showed was the action. We all know Civil War is one of the more through provoking story archs in marvel lore when it comes to rights and human society. Much like Batman vs Superman, Civil War will take on the burden of having their superheroes question the extent of their power on earth and as it pertains to the people. The difference is it actually dealt with the depths of every superheroes idea of what is right or wrong when it comes to the needs of the public safety and individual human rights. They contemplate the difference between the philosophy of being a citizen or a protector.The right to your own identity rather than selling out who you are just to make the people safe. The decision is tough. Again....a much deeper plot than BVS...so ...yeah.

1.) I don't believe you've read the comics.  Not for a second.  If you did, you either

I've read Civil War, the comic I was speaking of. I also was talking about the DC animations/Comics which Snyder and the writers took inspiration from for this film.

A.) don't remember what they were about or B.) didn't understand what they were about.

You think it's better for Bucky to go crazy and cause mayhem?  In the comics, it was a bunch of young heroes (The New Warriors aren't a "bunch of nobodies", either.  They've been around for decades!) who were undertrained.  They tried to stop some villains and blew up a school.  That was the final straw.  Before that, there were several storylines in which the public was losing its patience with all of the colllateral damage and heroes pretty much doing whatever they wanted in the Marvel Universe.  The point of Civil War in the comics was to either register with the government or become a felon.  Captain America wanted heroes to be able to keep their secret identity.  Iron Man wanted them to register.  It blew up from there.  Not sure what you thought it was about.  And, watching the trailer, I don't think the plot is "Bucky goes crazy and causes mayhem".  I have my guesses but I'm like 90% sure it's not what you think.

I understand who they were but compared to bucky they are nobodies when it comes to the silver screen and translating new entities from a universe to a crowd. I've read the story so I dont need it to be recited back to me. I also know that people were getting tired with mutants/superheroes , but thats why I spoke about the Xmen  being here most of the anti-mutant situtations went down. Sadly for Marvel, Fox has the rights to that storyline (...as I stated before). 

 

2.)  "You don't know what destruction Nem is talking about"?  Seriously, dude!?!  The destruction that Marvel THEMSELVES show in the Civil War TRAILER.  There is a whole part in the beginning of the trailer where they're showing the Avengers the damage from the first two Avengers movies and Winter Soldier.  Nobody is "going there" or comparing it to the DC Universe.  You seem to have selective memory and a need to attack DC comics!  Nobody said that Marvel caused more, less, or equal damage to the damage in Man of Steel or BvS.  Where did that reply even come from?Then, you go on to say that "all we've seen is action" but, at the same time tell us how deep the movie will be. 

Admittedly, I did not see that specific Civil War trailer with the briefing, so that was a mistake on my part. I thought we were talking about damage during fights in both universes. 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it.  You don't like DC comics.  You like Marvel.  Nothing wrong with that.  The problem is, you can't accurately explain why you like Marvel over DC.  You don't read the comics from either, based on what I've seen here.  You forgive things that Marvel has done (ie: tossing everthing and the kitchen sink in Age of Ultron including a random scene tying into Thor 3, the creation of Vision , a relationship between Black Widow and Hulk that came out of nowhere, and a story that continued from Agents of Shield TV show) but criticize DC for doing the same thing.  You don't read the comics but you constantly try to use them as a crutch in your arguments.  You've done this throughout your thread and I'm going to start calling you out on it.

Actually, I love both DC and Marvel...but unfortunately for even those two I like anime just as much, so I go back and forth between all three. I love Marvels movies more than DC's movies (save for Nolans trilogy) but I love DC's animations far more than Marvel. They both excel at different things where the other lacks in my honest opinion. As I said and I picked this up early, but you guys seem to be taking my opinion to heart as a versus ideology when it isnt at all. As for throwing the kitchen sink at Age of Ultron, please clarify what you mean and how many stories did they cram into that movie.  I will admit that the Black Widow and Hulk relationship was a little weird, but scarlet was so great at explaining her loneliness to Bruce that I didnt really mind her advances. My major issue with Batman vs Superman was purely towards Snyder and the writers. The movie made little sense when it came to motivation because of the bad editing between the characters. We knew little personally about Lex, Superman still had not developed into a characer worth caring about before his death (again..my issues with writing hen it comes to his humanity) and batman even though affleck did a great job was not much of a detective. They were all pawns for Lex. 

I'm actually beginning to wonder if you're just posting things to get a reaction out of DC comics fans.  I've said before, I like DC comics more but I've read thousands of Marvel Comics. I like them both.   If I post something, better believe I know what I'm talking about.

As I said, none of this was to get a reaction out of DC fans but it does reveal a simplistic either or philosophy which is troubling. Once again, I have no issue with DC, but with Snyder, the writers and the bad editing in the film. You seem to forget that a lot of people who were critical of this film ere DC fans. The simplistic idea that you have to be from a rival party to dislike a movie that depicts your childhood heroes creates a philosophy that the struggle is black and white. With humans it doesnt work that way unless they are being controlled. Humans have a spectrum of thought and listen to enough people from a certain amount fo time and you will learn new things from quite a few. It doesnt matter how much one thinks they know, we're still talking about a subject of portrayl of characters we both know. 

Sorry I couldnt get back to you sooner. I work between eight to twelve hours a day (mostly in between those) so I dont get to read responses until the morning where I live.

Check out this video that Angry Joe and Nostalgia Critic just made which did a pretty decent job of showing  the two DC fans frustration with Batman vs Superman. Pretty entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbPi8liw-zI



S.T.A.G.E. said:
d21lewis said:

1.) I don't believe you've read the comics.  Not for a second.  If you did, you either

I've read Civil War, the comic I was speaking of. I also was talking about the DC animations/Comics which Snyder and the writers took inspiration from for this film.

A.) don't remember what they were about or B.) didn't understand what they were about.

You think it's better for Bucky to go crazy and cause mayhem?  In the comics, it was a bunch of young heroes (The New Warriors aren't a "bunch of nobodies", either.  They've been around for decades!) who were undertrained.  They tried to stop some villains and blew up a school.  That was the final straw.  Before that, there were several storylines in which the public was losing its patience with all of the colllateral damage and heroes pretty much doing whatever they wanted in the Marvel Universe.  The point of Civil War in the comics was to either register with the government or become a felon.  Captain America wanted heroes to be able to keep their secret identity.  Iron Man wanted them to register.  It blew up from there.  Not sure what you thought it was about.  And, watching the trailer, I don't think the plot is "Bucky goes crazy and causes mayhem".  I have my guesses but I'm like 90% sure it's not what you think.

I understand who they were but compared to bucky they are nobodies when it comes to the silver screen and translating new entities from a universe to a crowd. I've read the story so I dont need it to be recited back to me. I also know that people were getting tired with mutants/superheroes , but thats why I spoke about the Xmen  being here most of the anti-mutant situtations went down. Sadly for Marvel, Fox has the rights to that storyline (...as I stated before). 

 

2.)  "You don't know what destruction Nem is talking about"?  Seriously, dude!?!  The destruction that Marvel THEMSELVES show in the Civil War TRAILER.  There is a whole part in the beginning of the trailer where they're showing the Avengers the damage from the first two Avengers movies and Winter Soldier.  Nobody is "going there" or comparing it to the DC Universe.  You seem to have selective memory and a need to attack DC comics!  Nobody said that Marvel caused more, less, or equal damage to the damage in Man of Steel or BvS.  Where did that reply even come from?Then, you go on to say that "all we've seen is action" but, at the same time tell us how deep the movie will be. 

Admittedly, I did not see that specific Civil War trailer with the briefing, so that was a mistake on my part. I thought we were talking about damage during fights in both universes. 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it.  You don't like DC comics.  You like Marvel.  Nothing wrong with that.  The problem is, you can't accurately explain why you like Marvel over DC.  You don't read the comics from either, based on what I've seen here.  You forgive things that Marvel has done (ie: tossing everthing and the kitchen sink in Age of Ultron including a random scene tying into Thor 3, the creation of Vision , a relationship between Black Widow and Hulk that came out of nowhere, and a story that continued from Agents of Shield TV show) but criticize DC for doing the same thing.  You don't read the comics but you constantly try to use them as a crutch in your arguments.  You've done this throughout your thread and I'm going to start calling you out on it.

Actually, I love both DC and Marvel...but unfortunately for even those two I like anime just as much, so I go back and forth between all three. I love Marvels movies more than DC's movies (save for Nolans trilogy) but I love DC's animations far more than Marvel. They both excel at different things where the other lacks in my honest opinion. As I said and I picked this up early, but you guys seem to be taking my opinion to heart as a versus ideology when it isnt at all. As for throwing the kitchen sink at Age of Ultron, please clarify what you mean and how many stories did they cram into that movie.  I will admit that the Black Widow and Hulk relationship was a little weird, but scarlet was so great at explaining her loneliness to Bruce that I didnt really mind her advances. My major issue with Batman vs Superman was purely towards Snyder and the writers. The movie made little sense when it came to motivation because of the bad editing between the characters. We knew little personally about Lex, Superman still had not developed into a characer worth caring about before his death (again..my issues with writing hen it comes to his humanity) and batman even though affleck did a great job was not much of a detective. They were all pawns for Lex. 

I'm actually beginning to wonder if you're just posting things to get a reaction out of DC comics fans.  I've said before, I like DC comics more but I've read thousands of Marvel Comics. I like them both.   If I post something, better believe I know what I'm talking about.

As I said, none of this was to get a reaction out of DC fans but it does reveal a simplistic either or philosophy which is troubling. Once again, I have no issue with DC, but with Snyder, the writers and the bad editing in the film. You seem to forget that a lot of people who were critical of this film ere DC fans. The simplistic idea that you have to be from a rival party to dislike a movie that depicts your childhood heroes creates a philosophy that the struggle is black and white. With humans it doesnt work that way unless they are being controlled. Humans have a spectrum of thought and listen to enough people from a certain amount fo time and you will learn new things from quite a few. It doesnt matter how much one thinks they know, we're still talking about a subject of portrayl of characters we both know. 

Sorry I couldnt get back to you sooner. I work between eight to twelve hours a day (mostly in between those) so I dont get to read responses until the morning where I live.

Check out this video that Angry Joe and Nostalgia Critic just made which did a pretty decent job of showing  the two DC fans frustration with Batman vs Superman. Pretty entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbPi8liw-zI

Watched that a while back. I can agree with their gripes, though I can defend them too. Some of them were actually in the movie and some were for comedic effect but some were genuinely legit flaws. The movie wasn't perfect but I walked in expecting a pile of crap and enjoyed it a lot. I've watched it three times (third time, yesterday). A lot of things people complain about are actually in the movie but they're mentioned so briefly that they're easy to miss.

And I understand about there being so much content. People have to have lives. I don't know everything there is to know about every version of everything. I just read what I like and it covered a whole lot of characters from the popular to the obscure. I still learn new things all of the time.

I know a good movie from a pile of poop. This movie did it for me.... up until the Doomsday portion. The "Martha" scene, I feel, was very well done but if somebody else doesn't like it, is fine with me. I just like it when somebody can explain what's wrong. Something may higher them but be totally okay with me. It's when they're factually wrong that I get emotional. With so many comics, is possible my facts differ from your facts. I could say "Batman can beat a Darkseid" and have a comic to back it up. You could say "A nameless guy on the street could knock out Batman" and also be right.

I have a friend who goes to hospitals, local movie premieres, and schools dressed as Deadpool. Last year, I joined his grip group (I'm John Stewart Green Lantern). When the Deadpool movie came out, he told parents that he portrays Deadpool from early on when he was a light hearted family friendly character. Bullshit! He's been Deadpool for years--long before his mainstream popularity but Deadpool was never what my friend said he was! It's obvious his opinion of Deadpool came from internet memes. That's the kind of thing that makes me fly off the handle!

I guess I'm a hardcore fan who's read comics like Kingdom Come, Superman Red Son, etc. where a more alien or even bad version of Superman got critical acclaim from everyone. I'm okay with the film and I can admit it has flaws. I'm just shocked that people dislike it like they do. When they say "DC does this but Marvel...." when I can think of examples of Marvel doing the same thing, I guess I take it personally, too. *shrugs* I don't know why.

 

Anyway, you're still cool with me, STAGE. Your profile picture is just so smug. I lost it for a second.