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Forums - Gaming Discussion - We need to talk about Superman for a second..(Batman vs Superman spoilers)

d21lewis said:
Fei-Hung said:

 

For the first question, Marvel are not going with hyper realism and humour, that's why Marvel get away with more than DC. 

 

Ironman is an ass. He pays for his douchery in Civil War. I just hope they stick to the comics. If they do, Thor will be handing him a beating of a life time for killing cap, profiting from the civil war, tricking people by creating a fake Thor and being an asshat. 

 

If they change the story to side with Stark then I am no longer interested in the MVU either. 

This worries me.  I was kind of a fan of Iron Man in the early 90's but then they did some crazy story where he turned evil and got replaced with a kid version of himself to take on himself.  That story.... the less said about it, the better.  Then, they screwed him up in heroes reborn.  Anyway, long story short, Iron Man wasn't an A-List character until his movie.

Now, he's the box office draw.  He may even be the average fan's favorite character.  I've seen several animated adaptations since the first film where he was actually leading the team instead of Cap.  When Civil War (comics) came around, I was pretty impressed by Tony Stark.  Even though he was logically right, he came off as the villain against Captain America who, in my opinion, was morally right.  I don't think the movies have the guts to make Tony Stark the obvious bad guy and if they do, I will stand up and applaud in the middle of the theater.

Very true. Marvel is turning many of their b list characters into A list characters .  DC cannot say the same.



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Okie_Loki said:

No idea which thread to use as there's a few that have been updated within the past few days by various posters.

Anyway, I'm posting a link from the one site that if you've kept up with, you'd know they've made it an attempt to squash this movie (they have probably 4 negative articles to every positive one - I'm looking at you IGN):

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/15/the-original-cut-of-batman-v-superman-was-four-hours-long

So, the original take was supposedly 4 hours long and fleshed out more of everything, BUT, this wasn't 4 hours that could have been shown in theaters necessarily, this was just the first take of everything filmed as all movies do. The Directors Cut, which we're hearing rumors may be released in theaters soon, and will be available on DVD/BR, is right around 3 hours, so an extra 30 mins. of content from the theatrical release (2 hours 31 mins, I believe). It should also be noted that on average it was only 10-20 mins longer than most MCU movies. So again, I don't quite understand everyone saying it was too long.

However, reading peoples comments, hearing peoples opinions, and reading the critics reviews, it wouldn't have mattered, really, how long this movie was. Because for the people complaining it was too long, are saying there should have been more. And the people saying it's too short (there are few) are saying there should have been a part 1 and 2. There really was no winning with this movie, and perhaps WB is to blame as they rushed their universe and had only ONE film as its foundation (MoS). They really need to learn from this movie and make the rest of their slate the best it can be.

The movie was badly edited for storytelling but great for action. They crammed multiple stories into one rushed script and tried to fit it into two and a half hours to catch up to Marvel after Green Lantern failed.

The consensus between professional reviewers and harsh amateur critics seems to be that the movie shouldve been split up into t wo movies to have a more coherent script. Seriously...Superman dying should feel like a loss of hope in the world. They squandered the denoument (build up) to create an excuse for lesser characters to be needed and snyder admitted this.. Captain America was a hated goody two shoes character with little to relate to because of his american good guy persona but Civil War sees Captain America turn into Captain Consitution which means he will stand up for peoples rights even if the governent wants to break the rules. This is something that DC has screwed up Superman with that his character could never take that turn to better himself in the eyes of the many.

Two movies airing one year after the other no different than the hunger games. Do two films worth of work and air them one year after the next.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
d21lewis said:

This worries me.  I was kind of a fan of Iron Man in the early 90's but then they did some crazy story where he turned evil and got replaced with a kid version of himself to take on himself.  That story.... the less said about it, the better.  Then, they screwed him up in heroes reborn.  Anyway, long story short, Iron Man wasn't an A-List character until his movie.

Now, he's the box office draw.  He may even be the average fan's favorite character.  I've seen several animated adaptations since the first film where he was actually leading the team instead of Cap.  When Civil War (comics) came around, I was pretty impressed by Tony Stark.  Even though he was logically right, he came off as the villain against Captain America who, in my opinion, was morally right.  I don't think the movies have the guts to make Tony Stark the obvious bad guy and if they do, I will stand up and applaud in the middle of the theater.

Very true. Marvel is turning many of their b list characters into A list characters .  DC cannot say the same.

I don't know. They've only made two movies in this universe. We'll see what Suicide Squad does.  It's definitely not a roster of their best characters. Only a few are known by casual fans. I have my fingers crossed that it's a good movie. Nobody (aside from blind fanboys, I guess) actually wants a movie to be bad.

 

*edit* I see where I said Iron Man wasn't an "A-List character".  I may have misspoken. In the 90's ( when they said comics sucked but it's when I got into comics), it was all about X-Men characters and Spider-man at Marvel comics. That's why they got guys like Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld to reboot the " non mutant " heroes in the Heroes Reborn storyline. When they did "Heroes Return", the Avengers were a big deal again.  There's probably a thousand heroes in the Avengers but (just like how Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are the JLA's " Trinity "), Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man have been the " Trinity". Iron Man was an important guy but, for a period between maybe 1997-2006, his stories weren't very memorable. He was like Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange. People knew him and he even had his own cartoons but they didn't really care about him. He wasn't an icon, imo.



Speaking of Green Lantern, that movie sucked! They messed up by making the movie light hearted and going with Hector Hammond and (as a fucking CLOUD!?!) Parallax as villains. It was like casting Jim Carey as Batman and making him fight Toy Man. Such a wasted opportunity. If they could have gotten a serious actor and had Sinestro as the villain, I think it would have been better. A dumb "Jokey" Hal Jordan just doesn't work. It didn't work in All-Star Batman and it didn't work in New 52 Justice League!



I'm geeking out too much, aren't I? Gotta reel it in, Lewis. Gotta reel it in....



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Okie_Loki said:

No idea which thread to use as there's a few that have been updated within the past few days by various posters.

Anyway, I'm posting a link from the one site that if you've kept up with, you'd know they've made it an attempt to squash this movie (they have probably 4 negative articles to every positive one - I'm looking at you IGN):

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/15/the-original-cut-of-batman-v-superman-was-four-hours-long

So, the original take was supposedly 4 hours long and fleshed out more of everything, BUT, this wasn't 4 hours that could have been shown in theaters necessarily, this was just the first take of everything filmed as all movies do. The Directors Cut, which we're hearing rumors may be released in theaters soon, and will be available on DVD/BR, is right around 3 hours, so an extra 30 mins. of content from the theatrical release (2 hours 31 mins, I believe). It should also be noted that on average it was only 10-20 mins longer than most MCU movies. So again, I don't quite understand everyone saying it was too long.

However, reading peoples comments, hearing peoples opinions, and reading the critics reviews, it wouldn't have mattered, really, how long this movie was. Because for the people complaining it was too long, are saying there should have been more. And the people saying it's too short (there are few) are saying there should have been a part 1 and 2. There really was no winning with this movie, and perhaps WB is to blame as they rushed their universe and had only ONE film as its foundation (MoS). They really need to learn from this movie and make the rest of their slate the best it can be.

The movie was badly edited for storytelling but great for action. They crammed multiple stories into one rushed script and tried to fit it into two and a half hours to catch up to Marvel after Green Lantern failed.

The consensus between professional reviewers and harsh amateur critics seems to be that the movie shouldve been split up into t wo movies to have a more coherent script. Seriously...Superman dying should feel like a loss of hope in the world. They squandered the denoument (build up) to create an excuse for lesser characters to be needed and snyder admitted this.. Captain America was a hated goody two shoes character with little to relate to because of his american good guy persona but Civil War sees Captain America turn into Captain Consitution which means he will stand up for peoples rights even if the governent wants to break the rules. This is something that DC has screwed up Superman with that his character could never take that turn to better himself in the eyes of the many.

Two movies airing one year after the other no different than the hunger games. Do two films worth of work and air them one year after the next.

One last post and then I'm done. I swear!

 

Anyway, I love the idea of making two movies. They probably should have done it.  Hell, release them the same year like The Matrix!

The only thing I see being a problem is that several people actual said the beginning of the film was the best part and, from the fight to the end, it was just mindless chaos.  Others said the first half was boring and directionless but it made up for it with some good action near the end.

 

Only a few liked it from beginning to end and a lot seem to have disliked the whole thing. Two movies would have possibly meant that those who disliked the whole thing and those who disliked the beginning weren't coming back for part two.

I might be wrong, though. A good cliffhanger probably would have brought them back.



d21lewis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The movie was badly edited for storytelling but great for action. They crammed multiple stories into one rushed script and tried to fit it into two and a half hours to catch up to Marvel after Green Lantern failed.

The consensus between professional reviewers and harsh amateur critics seems to be that the movie shouldve been split up into t wo movies to have a more coherent script. Seriously...Superman dying should feel like a loss of hope in the world. They squandered the denoument (build up) to create an excuse for lesser characters to be needed and snyder admitted this.. Captain America was a hated goody two shoes character with little to relate to because of his american good guy persona but Civil War sees Captain America turn into Captain Consitution which means he will stand up for peoples rights even if the governent wants to break the rules. This is something that DC has screwed up Superman with that his character could never take that turn to better himself in the eyes of the many.

Two movies airing one year after the other no different than the hunger games. Do two films worth of work and air them one year after the next.

One last post and then I'm done. I swear!

 

Anyway, I love the idea of making two movies. They probably should have done it.  Hell, release them the same year like The Matrix!

The only thing I see being a problem is that several people actual said the beginning of the film was the best part and, from the fight to the end, it was just mindless chaos.  Others said the first half was boring and directionless but it made up for it with some good action near the end.

 

Only a few liked it from beginning to end and a lot seem to have disliked the whole thing. Two movies would have possibly meant that those who disliked the whole thing and those who disliked the beginning weren't coming back for part two.

I might be wrong, though. A good cliffhanger probably would have brought them back.

If splitting it into two movies would have created a more cohesive story, it would have limited the number of dissatisfied views. I though the story, editing, and direction was pretty bad. I only saw it once. If you would have told me 6 months ago that BvS was released, I didn't like it, and I only saw it once. I would have called you crazy. I saw Man of Steel three times in theatre. I never hopped on the Ben Affleck hate train pre-release. I was and still am not sold on Gal Gadot though.



d21lewis said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Very true. Marvel is turning many of their b list characters into A list characters .  DC cannot say the same.

I don't know. They've only made two movies in this universe. We'll see what Suicide Squad does.  It's definitely not a roster of their best characters. Only a few are known by casual fans. I have my fingers crossed that it's a good movie. Nobody (aside from blind fanboys, I guess) actually wants a movie to be bad.

 

*edit* I see where I said Iron Man wasn't an "A-List character".  I may have misspoken. In the 90's ( when they said comics sucked but it's when I got into comics), it was all about X-Men characters and Spider-man at Marvel comics. That's why they got guys like Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld to reboot the " non mutant " heroes in the Heroes Reborn storyline. When they did "Heroes Return", the Avengers were a big deal again.  There's probably a thousand heroes in the Avengers but (just like how Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are the JLA's " Trinity "), Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man have been the " Trinity". Iron Man was an important guy but, for a period between maybe 1997-2006, his stories weren't very memorable. He was like Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange. People knew him and he even had his own cartoons but they didn't really care about him. He wasn't an icon, imo.

The film editor admitted that the original cut of the movie was supposed to be four hours long. Thats probably why when they edited it for theatrical status he had holes.  A very flawed film. This backs my statement that the movie had holes and had too many storylines in one film. It could've been split up between two years but DC is so behind.

Marvel is focused and they are doing their own thing which DC is trying but struggling to emulate. Iron Man was a popular character in the 90's but the 90's as you said was the era of the Xmen. It was the comic of a generation of teens with attitude isues and a the liberal philosophy of civil rights. 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
d21lewis said:

I don't know. They've only made two movies in this universe. We'll see what Suicide Squad does.  It's definitely not a roster of their best characters. Only a few are known by casual fans. I have my fingers crossed that it's a good movie. Nobody (aside from blind fanboys, I guess) actually wants a movie to be bad.

 

*edit* I see where I said Iron Man wasn't an "A-List character".  I may have misspoken. In the 90's ( when they said comics sucked but it's when I got into comics), it was all about X-Men characters and Spider-man at Marvel comics. That's why they got guys like Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld to reboot the " non mutant " heroes in the Heroes Reborn storyline. When they did "Heroes Return", the Avengers were a big deal again.  There's probably a thousand heroes in the Avengers but (just like how Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman are the JLA's " Trinity "), Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man have been the " Trinity". Iron Man was an important guy but, for a period between maybe 1997-2006, his stories weren't very memorable. He was like Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange. People knew him and he even had his own cartoons but they didn't really care about him. He wasn't an icon, imo.

The film editor admitted that the original cut of the movie was supposed to be four hours long. Thats probably why when they edited it for theatrical status he had holes.  A very flawed film. This backs my statement that the movie had holes and had too many storylines in one film. It could've been split up between two years but DC is so behind.

Marvel is focused and they are doing their own thing which DC is trying but struggling to emulate. Iron Man was a popular character in the 90's but the 90's as you said was the era of the Xmen. It was the comic of a generation of teens with attitude isues and a the liberal philosophy of civil rights. 

There's only one story in BvS. And it's quite an easy film to follow.



Hynad said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The film editor admitted that the original cut of the movie was supposed to be four hours long. Thats probably why when they edited it for theatrical status he had holes.  A very flawed film. This backs my statement that the movie had holes and had too many storylines in one film. It could've been split up between two years but DC is so behind.

Marvel is focused and they are doing their own thing which DC is trying but struggling to emulate. Iron Man was a popular character in the 90's but the 90's as you said was the era of the Xmen. It was the comic of a generation of teens with attitude isues and a the liberal philosophy of civil rights. 

There's only one story in BvS. And it's quite an easy film to follow.

Um...sorry but no.

There were bits of Flashpoint Paradox (Flash dreams)

Justice League War (Cyborg video borrowed from war animation, Visions of the Parademons in the future)

and Batman vs Superman (loosely based off of the actual comic and animation. Of course, featuring no Green Arrow)

Then we have the dawn of justice plot which is the precursor for the Justice League in itself featuring none other than Lex Luthor.

The whole fact that Doomsday was in the movie was an an issue. Didnt you notice that fan complaints stopped once they took Doomsday out of the commercial and left it just as Superman vs Batman?

DC has been taking liberties using old storylines from their most successful animated films and novels and cramming as much nonsensical information into one barely coherent script.

Lexes motivations were not known throughout the whole movie. We knew what he was waiting for and we knew that he set things up...but never knew why. A waste of two and a half hours that never finds its resolution as to his logic. A movie like this is only as strong as its primary antagonists ambitions and motivations and it lacks there beyond reason.

 

As the editor said, the original cut was was four hours. What they should've done was made this into a two part story with Batman vs Superman and then Dawn of Justice.