By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Angry Game Dev Sues Jim Sterling for $10 MILLION

DevilRising said:
So.....freedom of speech isn't a thing anymore? I don't like people being dickholes anymore than anyone else. But that's part of the free speech package, is that OTHER assholes are also allowed to say whatever they want. The "so long as they're not hurting anyone" bit is a blurry line, and not always easy to sus out.

But regardless which side you stand on this......America is ridiculous. Suing someone for MILLIONS of dollars, far far more than your little Steam games will ever make, because they and their dickhole fans make comments that upset you? Harassment I get. And that shit needs to stop. Bullying is not okay, if you don't like something, then fuck off and go like something else. But what does suing for MILLIONS of dollars, or any dollar amount really, actually accomplish?

I've always wondered this. Especially with truly fucked up cases like lawsuits over deaths. Like......is getting MILLIONS of dollars, going to bring your loved one back from the dead? Or is it just that suddenly being rich will help you find "piece of mind"? Because to me, there is no "justice" being attained by basically getting rich off of the death of someone you supposedly cared about. If anything, it seems like you're taking advantage of the situation and dishonoring their memory. *shrug*

So you are not from the US are you.

Freedom of speech only covers protection from censoring from the government. Nothing else.

And you cannot say whatever you want. Freedom of speech has many limitations. You cannot use your speech to harm others. You cannot yell fire in a crowded theater. etc.



Around the Network
TallSilhouette said:
Just when I thought things were calming down between them...At this point I hope Jim countersues and successfully sorts them out for a good long while. If nothing else this should be entertaining.

Countersue? For what?

This is not Judge Judy. This is a real court we are talking about.

They have rules and regulations that govern everything. You can't just 'countersue' like on a TV show. You have to have actual legal damages.



elektranine said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Especially you...

Their copyright claim was shut down and the video allowed back on youtube for a reason...

I am not an "armchair lawyer". I have had legal training, what do you guys know on the matter other than the "freedom of speech" phrase?

And lol since when is youtube the law of the land or the decider on copyright matters?

You went to law school as well buddy? While there, I took the copyrights class. It was fairly interesting.

 



Lawlight said:
Update - 12:25 pm: Digital Homicide has taken down its crowdfunding request “due to harassers donating amounts specifically to cause charges rather than donations and charge backs to cause financial fees...[W]e will be seeking another avenue for donations”

Lol

I love the internet.

This "case" is idiotic, if anyone was able to sue a person for poorly reviewing their shit games then companies would make more money releasing dogshit games and sueing than they ever would putting any effort at all into creating good games, would just be a horrific thing if this was ever to pass into the beginnings of a case.

Edit - Law talk and typo's together are an odd mix to try and read.



Why not check me out on youtube and help me on the way to 2k subs over at www.youtube.com/stormcloudlive

elektranine said:
TallSilhouette said:
Just when I thought things were calming down between them...At this point I hope Jim countersues and successfully sorts them out for a good long while. If nothing else this should be entertaining.

Countersue? For what?

Harassment, fraud, slander and libel, they're even suspected of trying to find and spread Jim's home address to incite further harassment and potential violence against him. If you've been following the Digital Homicide debacle you should know just how shady they are.



Around the Network
elektranine said:
I funny how most users here know nothing about the law or what fair use constitutes. What he did was illegal and not covered by far use. You cannot make a video of a copyright work in any way and just claim it as 'fair use'. Fair use only applies when the entire video is critic or satire based. Even when something is legitimate fair use that goes away completely when the copyright work is harmed in any way.

Why do you think any lets play video can be claimed by the ip holder.

Enough with the armchair lawyers.

Neither do you apparently. 

a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose - See more at: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/#sthash.IU88F0as.dpuf

If you are commenting upon or critiquing a copyrighted work — for instance, writing a book review — fair use principles allow you to reproduce some of the work to achieve your purposes

Copyright Claims(Temporary) do not equal Copyright Takedowns(Permanent), the takedown is when said claim is succesful because of a violated copyright.

Playing a videogame alone is transformative, commenting/critiquing it is clear fair use.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

$10 million seems exteme and he isn't gonna win anyways. It's just an opinon :P



elektranine said:
Nem said:

What the hell are you talking about? Besides, homicide games actually just rips assets from other sites, puts them together and calls them complete.

So... you defend we shouldn't be able to talk about anything without the creators express permission. Do you know what that is called? Fascism. Look at the word "copyrighted". I'm sure Jim isn't copying their "work" and i doubt its illegal to show footage of a game thats been released to the public already.

This is a battle about freedom of speech. Homicide games should be made an example of that. I hope the judge and jury make this a result to be remembered.

Its clear you don't understand what you are talking about. In the United States 'freedom of speech' has many limitations created by either court rulings or federal laws. One such limitation is commonly known as copyright law. I am talking about legal definitions here not webster dictionary. When an entity creates a creative work it is automatically protected and they get to control all rights to that work. Creating a video "work" based on another's work becomes known as a derivative work. You cannot do this without the expresss premission of the origional copyright holder, else that is considered copyright theft. There are a few builtin exceptions to copyright law such as fair use. In the US fair use has been very narrowly defined by court precedent & federal law. You can make a review of something and that's fair use. You can make parody/satire of something and that's considered fair use also. But you cannot make a video of anything for any other purpose without the IP holder's OK. The fair use exception also goes away entirely when a copryrighted work is harmed in any way by that fair use. Stearling is in very big trouble with this as there is massive court precendent for this and he has no legal defence.

 

First, you don't get to strike anything out. I can bring up whatever i feel like.

Second, again what are you talking about? You sound like you have personal information about this case. I am pretty sure that first, anyone can freely talk and criticise any piece of entertainment without any need to consult anyone. Second, you seem to be adressing footage is it? I don't even know what you are talking about and you should specify wich videos you say aren't in conformance with the law. I am sure that he had permission to make the reviews... just like everyone else did.

Also... how come is the work harmed in any way by his videos? By telling the truth? The truth is harmful? That sure is a funny interpretation of harmed. It would be harmed if he made stuff up, but i don't believe that was the case.



DevilRising said:

But regardless which side you stand on this......America is ridiculous. Suing someone for MILLIONS of dollars, far far more than your little Steam games will ever make, because they and their dickhole fans make comments that upset you? Harassment I get. And that shit needs to stop. Bullying is not okay, if you don't like something, then fuck off and go like something else. But what does suing for MILLIONS of dollars, or any dollar amount really, actually accomplish?

Agreed, it's beyond stupid that people can be awarded millions of dollars because their feelings were hurt. The litigation system is fucked.



DevilRising said:
So.....freedom of speech isn't a thing anymore? I don't like people being dickholes anymore than anyone else. But that's part of the free speech package, is that OTHER assholes are also allowed to say whatever they want. The "so long as they're not hurting anyone" bit is a blurry line, and not always easy to sus out.

But regardless which side you stand on this......America is ridiculous. Suing someone for MILLIONS of dollars, far far more than your little Steam games will ever make, because they and their dickhole fans make comments that upset you? Harassment I get. And that shit needs to stop. Bullying is not okay, if you don't like something, then fuck off and go like something else. But what does suing for MILLIONS of dollars, or any dollar amount really, actually accomplish?

I've always wondered this. Especially with truly fucked up cases like lawsuits over deaths. Like......is getting MILLIONS of dollars, going to bring your loved one back from the dead? Or is it just that suddenly being rich will help you find "piece of mind"? Because to me, there is no "justice" being attained by basically getting rich off of the death of someone you supposedly cared about. If anything, it seems like you're taking advantage of the situation and dishonoring their memory. *shrug*

A few things.

1) The plaintiff in a lawsuit can request whatever amount they please: no one but the plaintiff checks the lawsuit before it is filed, and the clerk who accepts it merely looks to confirm that it contains the required materials. Disputing the number is up to the defendant and/or court. Just because you sue for millions, it does not mean you will ever sniff that amount.

 

2) There are two kinds of lawsuits over the death of a loved one: survivor lawsuits and wrongful death lawsuits. Both were created by statute relatively recently to address problems and inconsistencies which existed without their creation.

The purpose of the wrongful death suit is to compensate the survivors for the lost income which the loved one would have provided, plus expenses incurred due to the death, less the amount they would have incurred had they continued to live. Simply put, all of tort law is intended to financially compensate a victim for another's wrongful actions, and the wrongful death suit was created because the family of a breadwinner should not be worse off financially due to the wrong committed by the tortfeasor.

As an aside, much of the work behind reaching these numbers is already done by actuaries: when someone says you can't put a value on human life, they are factually incorrect, as there is an entire profession which focuses on doing just that. For the record, there is a dollar value placed on individual organs, extremities, digits, and other body parts as well, with said value differing based on the person's age, race, gender, profession, education, health, and several other variables.

In a surival suit, the plaintiff is stepping into the shoes of the deceased to recover the value of the deceased's expenses as a result of the death, as well as things like pain and suffering which the deceased could have sued for had he lived. The purpose of the survival lawsuit appears to be primarily intended to not let a killer off the hook for the victim's losses simply because the victim died instead of clinging to life: you don't really want to reward the tortfeasor simply for doing too good a job in hurting someone, after all. It thus simply lets the family assert the same claims that the deceased could have had the tortfeasor not been as successful in hurting the deceased.

elektranine said:
noname2200 said:

Alright, you've got my attention. State your case for why these particular videos are not fair use.

I am not doing your work for you but here is a link of interest:

http://copyright.cornell.edu/policies/docs/Fair_Use_Checklist.pdf

 

You will see that the video in question fails almost all the tests for fair use.

As a licensed attorney I have already done the work of researching fair use law, and beyond the mere scope of an online checklist at that, thank you.

I am simpy inviting you to apply the law to the facts herein, as my admittedly limited understanding of the facts leads me - and apparently Digital Homicide as well, based on its failure to allege copyright violations in this suit - to draw the opposite opinion as you.

So again: you've got my attention. State your case for why these particular videos are not fair use. I am seriously open to argument and willing to be persuaded.