By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Is God's existence objectively verifiable?

 

Well, is it objectively verifiable?

Yes 57 15.20%
 
Not Sure 20 5.33%
 
No 244 65.07%
 
What's objective mean? 16 4.27%
 
Results 38 10.13%
 
Total:375

its kind of funny how people pretend that at any point in history that they have the world figured out...

around 100 or so years ago mercury was considered a miracle cure by cutting edge scientists

a few hundred years back the most prominent thinkers thought the earth was flat

and i'm sure that in a hundred years people will look back and laugh at the contrast between how arrogant most people are now with regards to their perceived understanding of the world compared to their ignorance of what is actually going on

scientists of today think a giant explosion created everything but concede that over 95% of the matter around us cannot be measured directly and cannot give an answer for how this explosion could have happened from nothing

besides that if you ask me with all of the side effects the drugs we take today have, the cures we use today aren't that much progressed from my earlier example

if someone looks with open eyes they can clearly see some of the same irrational, faith based kind of thinking in the scientific and specifically the atheistic community ( especially with other ideologies like feminism becoming prominent in them ) that they accuse theisst of and it really is extremely funny when you see it for what it is

anyway with regards to belief in god yes it is a faith based belief and not a belief based on empirical evidence but the point i'm making is that no one not even atheists are free of faith

as an atheist after all you have to have faith that your senses are giving you an accurate picture of the world and if they aren't then your scientific observations are shit

sure you could have tools to widen your perception but those could be flawed too and you still have to use your senses to interpret what data they give you anyway

if you marry someone you must have some degree of faith in your belief that they really love you and aren't just their to exploit you

when people put a government in power they have to have some degree of faith that they won't just be exploited ( although most people seem to be aware that this is generally not a smart beliefs to have anyway )

and the examples go on and on... no one in this world is free from faith or irrational beliefs for that matter



Around the Network

OMG.....



 

PSN: Opticstrike90
Steam: opticstrike90

Volterra_90 said:
It's impossible to justify objectively God's existence. And it's impossible to deny his existence too. So, I remain agnostic. Though I don't believe it's possible the existence of an interventionist God, like some religions say. Maybe it's a physical force which keep the Universe balanced and non-chaotic. It's a complex subject.

So you're agnostic when it comes to Zeus, Oden or Santa as well? :)





Dulfite said:
I am a Christian that believes in God, however I would just like to focus on one thing that I've considered for years. It is something that was not required for me to have faith (my faith preceded this understanding by years/decades).

Imagine not existing. Can you do it? I'm not asking you to imagine dying, I'm talking about imagine ceasing to exist. Now, if you will one day cease to exist entirely, would you even remember this present time that your in right now? Now some may argue "well it's the present and I'm in existence, not the future when I won't be, so of course my memory is still working" but let me ask you, does someone who loses all their memory feel like they were alive before they "woke up" (if you will)? No. So why would it be any different for anyone else that loses all their memory (ceases to exist, in this case, after death)? If, one day, we all are destined to not exist, then none of us would have comprehension of our own existence like we do now.

Self-awareness is one of the key objective pieces to the concept of the divine.

I also look at the universe. How likely is it that something came from nothing compared to God making something come from nothing? That's like comparing me exhaling my breath in winter (seeing it) to my breath just randomly appearing there for no reason at all without me or anything else causing it to appear.

If I hadn't read the Bible and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, I certainly would have not been an atheist because there is just too much ridiculously coincidental things that have happened in existence (including self-awareness and existence itself) that have no reason for being around if there isn't some kind of divine being running the show, if you will.

People always argue that the Big Bang happened from a single thing/atom, but how? How was that single atom there to begin with? Where did it come from? Nothing? That doesn't make any sense.

But if you put God into the equation, it makes a whole lot more sense for something to come from nothing.


How likely is it that something came from nothing? How could you possibly determine that?  Like... what kind of probability equations can you give?  

As for the big bang, you do not understand the theory.  The big bang does not state that the universe came from a single atoms.  It states that the universe came from ALL of the atoms compressed into a singularity.

Where the atoms came from is still a mystery.  There are physicists who believe the universe is eternal, and also those who think that universes just kind of come into existence naturally.  And while that may sound silly to you, there is math behind these theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbsGYRArH_w

 

Putting god into the equation certainly makes intuitive sense.  The same way that Zeus throwing lightning bolts made more intuitive sense to people with no knowledge of electricity than the actually phenomena.  That's why we have myths in the first time.  However the simplest and most intuitive answer isn't the correct one.

Besides, where exactly did god come from then?  How likely is it that an omniscient, omnipotent being came out of nothing?



o_O.Q said:
its kind of funny how people pretend that at any point in history that they have the world figured out...

around 100 or so years ago mercury was considered a miracle cure by cutting edge scientists

a few hundred years back the most prominent thinkers thought the earth was flat

and i'm sure that in a hundred years people will look back and laugh at the contrast between how arrogant most people are now with regards to their perceived understanding of the world compared to their ignorance of what is actually going on

scientists of today think a giant explosion created everything but concede that over 95% of the matter around us cannot be measured directly and cannot give an answer for how this explosion could have happened from nothing

besides that if you ask me with all of the side effects the drugs we take today have, the cures we use today aren't that much progressed from my earlier example

if someone looks with open eyes they can clearly see some of the same irrational, faith based kind of thinking in the scientific and specifically the atheistic community ( especially with other ideologies like feminism becoming prominent in them ) that they accuse theisst of and it really is extremely funny when you see it for what it is

anyway with regards to belief in god yes it is a faith based belief and not a belief based on empirical evidence but the point i'm making is that no one not even atheists are free of faith

as an atheist after all you have to have faith that your senses are giving you an accurate picture of the world and if they aren't then your scientific observations are shit

sure you could have tools to widen your perception but those could be flawed too and you still have to use your senses to interpret what data they give you anyway

if you marry someone you must have some degree of faith in your belief that they really love you and aren't just their to exploit you

when people put a government in power they have to have some degree of faith that they won't just be exploited ( although most people seem to be aware that this is generally not a smart beliefs to have anyway )

and the examples go on and on... no one in this world is free from faith or irrational beliefs for that matter

Well, the only consistent fact through the years is, that whatever discoveries we have debunked, the presence of an omnipotent god has grown smaller and smaller.

And as a person that do not believe in things we have no proof of, what you would call an atheist, I do not have faith that my observations are true at all times because through scientific methodology I can always be proven wrong. And I welcome that. That is the difference between a religious person and one that does not have faith in any specific thing: The willingness to accept that your observation and knowledge is wrong.





Around the Network
Dulfite said:
People always argue that the Big Bang happened from a single thing/atom, but how? How was that single atom there to begin with? Where did it come from? Nothing? That doesn't make any sense.

 

The big bang happened from an infinitely dense particle. It did so because physics says so. 

 

The point of the science behind it, though, is that it's not just saying stuff. Because of that, we don't have answers for things like "Then where did that particle come from" because we don't know. And to me, that makes a lot more sense than "this book that has had a number of unverified sources say this stuff happened, sometimes in direct contradiction to legitimate historical documents. A book that, despite being the word of God, has undergone a number of groundshaking revisions by Man. Man decided that there is no more Limbo. We're talking about a previously documented section of the afterlife reserved for the righteous non-believers, such as Plato or Socrates. Gone, because Man says so.

 

I'll have to take the position opposite to you, in that science makes the most sense, and religion is a stretch.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

JWeinCom said:
Dulfite said:
I am a Christian that believes in God, however I would just like to focus on one thing that I've considered for years. It is something that was not required for me to have faith (my faith preceded this understanding by years/decades).

Imagine not existing. Can you do it? I'm not asking you to imagine dying, I'm talking about imagine ceasing to exist. Now, if you will one day cease to exist entirely, would you even remember this present time that your in right now? Now some may argue "well it's the present and I'm in existence, not the future when I won't be, so of course my memory is still working" but let me ask you, does someone who loses all their memory feel like they were alive before they "woke up" (if you will)? No. So why would it be any different for anyone else that loses all their memory (ceases to exist, in this case, after death)? If, one day, we all are destined to not exist, then none of us would have comprehension of our own existence like we do now.

Self-awareness is one of the key objective pieces to the concept of the divine.

I also look at the universe. How likely is it that something came from nothing compared to God making something come from nothing? That's like comparing me exhaling my breath in winter (seeing it) to my breath just randomly appearing there for no reason at all without me or anything else causing it to appear.

If I hadn't read the Bible and accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, I certainly would have not been an atheist because there is just too much ridiculously coincidental things that have happened in existence (including self-awareness and existence itself) that have no reason for being around if there isn't some kind of divine being running the show, if you will.

People always argue that the Big Bang happened from a single thing/atom, but how? How was that single atom there to begin with? Where did it come from? Nothing? That doesn't make any sense.

But if you put God into the equation, it makes a whole lot more sense for something to come from nothing.


How likely is it that something came from nothing? How could you possibly determine that?  Like... what kind of probability equations can you give?  

As for the big bang, you do not understand the theory.  The big bang does not state that the universe came from a single atoms.  It states that the universe came from ALL of the atoms compressed into a singularity.

Where the atoms came from is still a mystery.  There are physicists who believe the universe is eternal, and also those who think that universes just kind of come into existence naturally.  And while that may sound silly to you, there is math behind these theories.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbsGYRArH_w

 

Putting god into the equation certainly makes intuitive sense.  The same way that Zeus throwing lightning bolts made more intuitive sense to people with no knowledge of electricity than the actually phenomena.  That's why we have myths in the first time.  However the simplest and most intuitive answer isn't the correct one.

Besides, where exactly did god come from then?  How likely is it that an omniscient, omnipotent being came out of nothing?

Lighting isn't the building blocks of existence itself, though, so it's not really comparable. And I've heard the eternal thing (the one where the universe expands into nothingness, then retracts and starts all over again, again and again, right?), but if that were true why did it start doing that? Why is there anything? Why is there nothing? No amount of math can prove why there is something instead of nothing. None of us can even comprehend nothing, truly.

As for where did God come from, HE didn't. HE was and is and will always be there. That is my Christian belief, based on faith. I can't explain it to you. It's a faith thing. I wrestled with the logic against it long ago, and my faith in God came out victorious and now, years/decades later, nothing else even makes sense to me. Having Christ changes you and changes your perspective, but it's not something that someone who doesn't have Christ can understand fully, so me trying to explain it would be futile. It's just something people have to experience themselves, they can't understand it with their brains alone.





There is a guy in Mexico called jesus so God definitely exists.

Seriously though the way I look at it. Science can't prove no superior being created the universe and we can't prove it did.

I'm open to the idea. I believe in the big bang. But what created that. Why can't we see past the outside of our universe? Are we incubated inside a force we can't see past created by a superior being? like the entire universe could be a lab experiment inside a lab somewhere by aliens or gods.

Another theory is that this. We zoom in on objects and they're made of atoms orbiting. They all make our planet which orbits the sun. Which is part of our solar system. Which is part of our galaxy, which is part of the universe. The whole universe is just one big ball that exploded.

What if that ball is just an atom, that forms one tiny part of an even bigger reality.

Or what if a God like we believe in actually created the big bang. You see anything is possible and we can't prove it right or wrong.



Dulfite said:

Lighting isn't the building blocks of existence itself, though, so it's not really comparable. And I've heard the eternal thing (the one where the universe expands into nothingness, then retracts and starts all over again, again and again, right?), but if that were true why did it start doing that? Why is there anything? Why is there nothing? No amount of math can prove why there is something instead of nothing. None of us can even comprehend nothing, truly.

As for where did God come from, HE didn't. HE was and is and will always be there. That is my Christian belief, based on faith. I can't explain it to you. It's a faith thing. I wrestled with the logic against it long ago, and my faith in God came out victorious and now, years/decades later, nothing else even makes sense to me. Having Christ changes you and changes your perspective, but it's not something that someone who doesn't have Christ can understand fully, so me trying to explain it would be futile. It's just something people have to experience themselves, they can't understand it with their brains alone.



When it comes to the big bang, you're asking a lot of questions.  And that's fine people should ask questions, because that's how we learn things.

Then, when you start talking about god, suddenly, evidence doesn't matter.  And it's fine if YOU want to believe that, but to come into a topic asking for proof of god to point out flaws in other models as your evidence is hypocritical.  Your claims are not special and need to be subjected to the same level of scrutiny if you want to consider them as proof.

As for the whole "you need Christ to get Christ" thing, I've heard it before, and it absolutely seems bizarre.  I was not raised to believe in christ, so I have no predisposition towards that concept.  So, to understand it, I have to believe it first.  But to believe it, I need to already have it.  And the only way to get it is through an experience that I have no control over @_@...

So, as a side question, do you believe that non-believers are punished?  If so, is it fair to punish people for not believing in something that they need experience to believe, when that experience has not been provided?


I take it from your response that your answer is "no god's existence is not objectively verifiable".  Which is fine, so long as you don't expect people to believe it.



Maybe. If he ever decides to reveal himself publicly, it's practically done. And if not and he complies to the laws of nature, given enough time, we should be able to observe him. That said, if he doesn't comply to the laws of nature, it's up to him, which means no unless he decide to reveal himself.

tl;dr: This isn't a simple yes/no question if you take all possibilities into account.