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Forums - Politics Discussion - Is God's existence objectively verifiable?

 

Well, is it objectively verifiable?

Yes 57 15.20%
 
Not Sure 20 5.33%
 
No 244 65.07%
 
What's objective mean? 16 4.27%
 
Results 38 10.13%
 
Total:375
Ljink96 said:

That's fine. Believe what you will. But I guess the Bible was a novel written by Shakespeare.



If it was by Shakespeare, it would be waaaaay less boring.



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Ljink96 said:
asqarkabab said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely

Well, we at least know Noah existed because they found the ark a while back. It had the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible. And I guess, if those people don't exist then the Roman empire didn't exist too? You can freaking visit Jesus's tomb. There has been water found in which one group of h20 is hydrophobic of another, hinting at water that was split by Moses.



Ugh, why do people propagate this nonsense? Please stop taking everything your religious friends tell you as gospel truth. There has been no ark found, this is not even debatable. It's yet another Ron Wyatt fraud.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Even Answers in Genesis website tells you to stop spreading this bullshit:

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/12/19/has-noahs-ark-been-found/

 





OdinHades said:
Ljink96 said:

That's fine. Believe what you will. But I guess the Bible was a novel written by Shakespeare.



If it was by Shakespeare, it would be waaaaay less boring.

To some. I find the retranslations very interesting. Especially Acts and Revelations. Many of the current world happenings have been outlined in these two books. What get's my attention is the reality of it all. The thing predicted the nuclear meltdown of chernobyl. Now that's interesting.





RadiantDanceMachine said:
Ljink96 said:
asqarkabab said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely

Well, we at least know Noah existed because they found the ark a while back. It had the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible. And I guess, if those people don't exist then the Roman empire didn't exist too? You can freaking visit Jesus's tomb. There has been water found in which one group of h20 is hydrophobic of another, hinting at water that was split by Moses.



Ugh, why do people propagate this nonsense? Please stop taking everything your religious friends tell you as gospel truth. There has been no ark found, this is not even debatable. It's yet another Ron Wyatt fraud.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Even Answers in Genesis website tells you to stop spreading this bullshit:

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/12/19/has-noahs-ark-been-found/

 



Even if these non-viable sources are right, you ignore the hard hitting points I mentioned about the Roman Empire and Jesus. This stuff is documented. Jesus wasn't fake. His miracles were documented. Speaking in tongues, it's real. It's the sign of the holy spirit living within you. You think millions of people just act like they all can speak a different tongue all of a sudden?

I've witnessed a friend, who I've never even thought would be demonic, have a spirit cast out of her body and when the pastor asked the demon what its name was, it spoke through her and said "Legion". I was scared as hell that day.

There was a recorded happening in which a teenager was hit by a vehicle and pronounced dead on the scene. His brain was on the freaking street. He was taken to the morgue where his mother, with prayer and power, called him back and sure enough he woke up and told his mother that he was sorry. The doctors and nurses ran out the room, in disbelief in what they saw.

I was born with a defect in which I could not urinate. It was destroying my body. The doctors had no idea what to do, all the treatments failed. But my mother told me that one night, she had been crying about my situation and was praying that a miracle would come my way and that night, she said a figure sat down on her bed and told her that I would have a wet diaper in the morning. Sure enough, she woke up and I no longer had the complication.

When my brother was born, the doctors said he wouldn't live to see a year of age. My parents were distraught but they called a good friend of theirs to pray for him. When the friend arrived, all of the newborn babies that were crying at the hospital...just stopped when he walked in. Every single one of them. He prayed for my brother and the complication resolved shortly there after. 

You can't tell me that God isn't real. There are things that not even science can prove.





Ljink96 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:
Ljink96 said:
I've seen too many things in my life to question the assistance of God.

Just gonna leave this here:

RadiantDanceMachine said:

It is my position that no amount of subjective evidence would be sufficient to prove a claim. 

Since subjective evidence is mere opinion, it serves no function in matters of truth.

 



That's fine. Believe what you will. But I guess the Bible was a novel written by Shakespeare.



Who do you think wrote the Bible?





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Ljink96 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:
Ljink96 said:
asqarkabab said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely

Well, we at least know Noah existed because they found the ark a while back. It had the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible. And I guess, if those people don't exist then the Roman empire didn't exist too? You can freaking visit Jesus's tomb. There has been water found in which one group of h20 is hydrophobic of another, hinting at water that was split by Moses.



Ugh, why do people propagate this nonsense? Please stop taking everything your religious friends tell you as gospel truth. There has been no ark found, this is not even debatable. It's yet another Ron Wyatt fraud.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Even Answers in Genesis website tells you to stop spreading this bullshit:

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/12/19/has-noahs-ark-been-found/

 



Even if these non-viable sources are right, you ignore the hard hitting points I mentioned about the Roman Empire and Jesus. This stuff is documented. Jesus wasn't fake. His miracles were documented. Speaking in tongues, it's real. It's the sign of the holy spirit living within you. You think millions of people just act like they all can speak a different tongue all of a sudden?

I've witnessed a friend, who I've never even thought would be demonic, have a spirit cast out of her body and when the pastor asked the demon what its name was, it spoke through her and said "Legion". I was scared as hell that day.

There was a recorded happening in which a teenager was hit by a vehicle and pronounced dead on the scene. His brain was on the freaking street. He was taken to the morgue where his mother, with prayer and power, called him back and sure enough he woke up and told his mother that he was sorry. The doctors and nurses ran out the room, in disbelief in what they saw.

I was born with a defect in which I could not urinate. It was destroying my body. The doctors had no idea what to do, all the treatments failed. But my mother told me that one night, she had been crying about my situation and was praying that a miracle would come my way and that night, she said a figure sat down on her bed and told her that I would have a wet diaper in the morning. Sure enough, she woke up and I no longer had the complication.

When my brother was born, the doctors said he wouldn't live to see a year of age. My parents were distraught but they called a good friend of theirs to pray for him. When the friend arrived, all of the newborn babies that were crying at the hospital...just stopped when he walked in. Every single one of them. He prayed for my brother and the complication resolved shortly there after. 

You can't tell me that God isn't real. There are things that not even science can prove.



 

You're right, no one can tell you that god isn't real because you can't prove a negative, but that's just about the only thing you're right about. You're not bringing up any hard hitting evidence at all, it's all claptrap pushed by religious zealots with no real science behind it.

The general consensus was that moses didn't exist. There is little to no evidence that Abraham existed. The Noah story was just a rip of of The Epic of Gilgamesh, which came way before the Noah story, and no, no one has found an ark. Jesus's existence is debateable, though the consensus seems to lean towards him existing.

If you want to believe for personal reasons that's cool, and no one can take that away from you, but don't try to bring all these made up facts to the table.



Ljink96 said:
asqarkabab said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely

Well, we at least know Noah existed because they found the ark a while back. It had the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible. And I guess, if those people don't exist then the Roman empire didn't exist too? You can freaking visit Jesus's tomb. There has been water found in which one group of h20 is hydrophobic of another, hinting at water that was split by Moses.




The tale of Noah's ark is likely based on the flooding of the black sea; (several cultures have similar tales of the deluge, all having had contact with the area at some time.

If something is hydrophobic , it distances itself from water, by a distance of a few nanometers. Not a distance you could walk through, or see, for that matter.



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Scoobes said:
Ljink96 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:
Ljink96 said:
I've seen too many things in my life to question the assistance of God.

Just gonna leave this here:

RadiantDanceMachine said:

It is my position that no amount of subjective evidence would be sufficient to prove a claim. 

Since subjective evidence is mere opinion, it serves no function in matters of truth.

 



That's fine. Believe what you will. But I guess the Bible was a novel written by Shakespeare.



Who do you think wrote the Bible?



I was pretty sure numerous people wrote the thing, including David and Abraham. Who do you think wrote it?





WookieSquatch said:
Ljink96 said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:
Ljink96 said:
asqarkabab said:
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely

Well, we at least know Noah existed because they found the ark a while back. It had the exact same dimensions as described in the Bible. And I guess, if those people don't exist then the Roman empire didn't exist too? You can freaking visit Jesus's tomb. There has been water found in which one group of h20 is hydrophobic of another, hinting at water that was split by Moses.



Ugh, why do people propagate this nonsense? Please stop taking everything your religious friends tell you as gospel truth. There has been no ark found, this is not even debatable. It's yet another Ron Wyatt fraud.

http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Even Answers in Genesis website tells you to stop spreading this bullshit:

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2013/12/19/has-noahs-ark-been-found/

 



Even if these non-viable sources are right, you ignore the hard hitting points I mentioned about the Roman Empire and Jesus. This stuff is documented. Jesus wasn't fake. His miracles were documented. Speaking in tongues, it's real. It's the sign of the holy spirit living within you. You think millions of people just act like they all can speak a different tongue all of a sudden?

I've witnessed a friend, who I've never even thought would be demonic, have a spirit cast out of her body and when the pastor asked the demon what its name was, it spoke through her and said "Legion". I was scared as hell that day.

There was a recorded happening in which a teenager was hit by a vehicle and pronounced dead on the scene. His brain was on the freaking street. He was taken to the morgue where his mother, with prayer and power, called him back and sure enough he woke up and told his mother that he was sorry. The doctors and nurses ran out the room, in disbelief in what they saw.

I was born with a defect in which I could not urinate. It was destroying my body. The doctors had no idea what to do, all the treatments failed. But my mother told me that one night, she had been crying about my situation and was praying that a miracle would come my way and that night, she said a figure sat down on her bed and told her that I would have a wet diaper in the morning. Sure enough, she woke up and I no longer had the complication.

When my brother was born, the doctors said he wouldn't live to see a year of age. My parents were distraught but they called a good friend of theirs to pray for him. When the friend arrived, all of the newborn babies that were crying at the hospital...just stopped when he walked in. Every single one of them. He prayed for my brother and the complication resolved shortly there after. 

You can't tell me that God isn't real. There are things that not even science can prove.



 

You're right, no one can tell you that god isn't real because you can't prove a negative, but that's just about the only thing you're right about. You're not bringing up any hard hitting evidence at all, it's all claptrap pushed by religious zealots with no real science behind it.

The general consensus was that moses didn't exist. There is little to no evidence that Abraham existed. The Noah story was just a rip of of The Epic of Gilgamesh, which came way before the Noah story, and no, no one has found an ark. Jesus's existence is debateable, though the consensus seems to lean towards him existing.

If you want to believe for personal reasons that's cool, and no one can take that away from you, but don't try to bring all these made up facts to the table.

Jesus did exist; the romans kept good records of any disturbances in an area, including any supposed messiahs (which there where hundreds of at the time. The people of Judea where waiting for an occasion to revolt, and took the first chance they got to declare a prophet of God sent to get rid of the occupants)





Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Scoobes said:
Frank_kc said:
nuckles87 said:

But you aren't stating facts. You're just demonstrating your ignorance of them. XD

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but I'll list out the flaws in your argument:

1. The problem isn't that we cannot SEE God. The problem is that we have no means of detecting him.

2. We have tools that can detect and measure frequencies. We know that pain is something that we detect via pain receptors in our nerves. And we CAN actually "see" electricity. I mean, that's what lightning is, among other things. But we know electricity is there because we have a means of detecting it and utilizing it in every day life.

3. Yes, it would be irrational to think that TVs, cars, and planes built themselves....because we know we built them. We know how to make them. We know the names of the people who played a role in inventing them. We know what parts go into them.

4. But we cannot say the same for God. We have no means of detecting God. We don't know where God is. What God is. God, unlike all of these things, exists COMPLETELY outside of the realm of science and the physical world.

5. I'm gonna ask a question here: why DOES a universe as complex as ours absolutely NEED a creator?

6. Corn. You know corn, right? You know what it looks like? Before native americans utilized genetic selection to change it into what it is today, it used to look like this: http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/ad_hoc/36222000DiverseMaizeResearch/images/teoF1earzone.JPG

Of course, this happened over thousands of years. Real evolution that leads to the sort of biodiversity we have today takes millions of years.

7. Actually, birds are dinosaurs.

8. Actually, changing an environment does change a species. A polar bear is not the same species as a black bear or a sun bear. They all belong to the same family (ursidae) but genetically they are each distinct species. A polar bear evolved to survive arctic temperatures. Black bears evolved to survive in temperate, seasonal environments. Sunbears evolved to live in tropical rain forests.

9. Finally, I just want to say that evolution being a theory is the same thing as gravity being a theory. Understanding evolution is a fundemental part of modern biological science. It's how we have been genetically modifying plants and animals through artificial selection for thousands of years. It plays a critical part in our understanding of DNA. It is evident throughout the genes of all living organisms (see the above link about the bird with the dino snout) and throughout our planet's fossil record.  What's more, we've observed evolution in real time on the microbial level.

In other words, there is far more evidence for evolution, than for the idea that every living organism on planet earth was created exactly as it exists now 5000 years ago.

 

 



1- The facts that you cant detect him, again, doesnt mean that he doesnt exist. We have signs of his existence. It is very simple, who decided to have a magnetic fields around earth to protect it?  Science? Nature? or some one else? why is the shape of earth is not flat? who decided that? The science you use to defend your theories, was created by some one or did just came out of no where?

2- Check point 1

3- If you know who built cars, planes. etc...how would you explain existence of our universe with its precise system, rules  and controls. did just come up for no where?

5- Because there is no system that can create it self. Why do we need an air traffic controller in an airport, it is a complex system, it can run it self by it self.......! Didnt we need to have a creator for an air traffic control system to ensure safety of flights?

6- It is still a corn, didn it evolve to something else like an apple? How would you now that it takes millions of years? do yo u have any proof? or is it all theories and assumptions by humans?

7- Dont tell this to any one so that you wouldnt look stupid. Many creatures have skulls and bones and skeletons, and some similarities can exist in some creatures.

8- Actually, your example destroys your evolution theory. A bear it is still a bear, it only adjusted to its environment or surroundings. It didn’t evolve to something else like a Tiger for example.

 

9- We are taking about things evolving naturally based on your theories and not genetic changes made by humans.

1 & 2: You're inferring existence from something that could be completely unrelated and jumping to conclusions.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magearth.html

God doesn't need to be present for the Earth's magnetic fields to happen. Whilst all the other phenomena you mentioned can actually be reliably measured and detected. You saying "god must have done it" doesn't actually make it so, it just means you haven't researched the topic fully.

3- No, potentially everything has always existed. Or the simple answer is we don't know. You're the one assuming that there is a creator or that there has to be one. Why?

5- So who created God?

6- We have the fossil records of the gradual changes, we have massive GB of DNA databases that show the evolution of different organisms over time. The databases and the principles of evolution are actually used in labs to create and manufacture Biopharmaceuticals to help treat disease. If evolution didn't exist then a number of treatments wouldn't exist either as we would never have been able to create them. 

7- These are tracked through time so you can actually track the evolution.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12052-009-0133-4

Denying this just makes you look ignorant.

8- No, a polar bear isn't just a bear in the same way a Tiger isn't a Lion. They share a common ancestor, but they're completely different species. You may need to lookup the definition of a species.

9- If evolution didn't exist then humans wouldn't be able to make these genetic changes as fast as we have done. Scientists use the priciples of evolution as tools to speed up process of genetic modification. You can deny it, but it's as ridiculous as someone saying gravity doesn't exist.

Thanks, you saved me a lot of work.

From what I can gather, Frank, your singular argument for God is "only God could have created a universe with rules."

If you want to credit God for the creation of the universe, fine. We have evidence for the evolution of the universe leading all the way up to the "Big Bang" but nothing beyond that (at least as far as I know. I'm no scientist). You want to credit God with the big bang? Go right on ahead. No one in the scientific community is stopping you right now. Just know that not knowing something isn't "proof" of something's existence.

Man has been wrong plenty of time when he used assumptions or superstition to fill in the gaps in his knowledge. We used to think the world was flat, because that's how it appeared to us. In reality, when greek mathmeticians applied math to the idea, they discovered that the Earth was curved, and therefor must be round. We used to assume that the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around us. But then through astronomy we discovered moons around other bodies, came to realize we were orbiting the sun, and eventualyl realized our solar system sat in the spiral arm of a milky way galaxy. We assumed that was the only galaxy until we discovered other galaxies in the 1930s. We once assumed that the universe was created by God as described in the Bible, until we eventually began to discover evidence for a "big bang" which culminated in our discovery in the background radiation that gave us a look at how the universe was near the very beginning.

And now, you are assuming that only God could have created a universe this complex. But you have no scientific evidence. No evidence beyond your faith and the Bible. Why does it have to be YOUR God who created the universe? How can you be so sure that, out of ALL the religions in the world, your specific form of Christianity is the right one? I'm fairly sure I know the answer, but I want to hear it from you.

Evolution isn't what you think it is either. It isn't about "one animal completely changing into another animal". It is gradual change. The larger the time scale, the greater the change, but the physical differences between descendents and recent ancestors/cousins isn't typically that great. So two species of bear that diverged from a common ancestor will have only been a few million years ago. Humans and Chimpanzees have diverged far more recently thant humans from non-ape primates (which is evident in similarities and differences in our DNA).

Mammals didn't just pop out of reptiles. First, there were the synapsids, or "mammal-like reptiles". Then there were the egg laying mammals, monotremes (some of which still exist today, like the echidna and platypus). Eventually, modern mammals as know them came about.

But even mammals and reptiles aren't really that dissimilar, even these days. Most (though not all) of them have four legs, a tail, two eyes, two nostrils, a mouth. We all got these features from a common ancestor, hundreds of millions of years ago.

And yes, birds ARE dinosaurs. I tell peope that all the time, because it's true. Ask an archeologist, and that's what they'll tell you. That article I gave you didn't just pull it out of nowhere. Though I get the impression you didn't read that awesome article about scientists using genetic manipulationt to revive ancient features in modern chicken embryos all the way through.

I'll never understand why some hardcore christians can't accept things like evolution. Even the VATICAN accepts evolution. Why can't that just be a mechanism god utilizes to create new life?