By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics Discussion - Is God's existence objectively verifiable?

 

Well, is it objectively verifiable?

Yes 57 15.20%
 
Not Sure 20 5.33%
 
No 244 65.07%
 
What's objective mean? 16 4.27%
 
Results 38 10.13%
 
Total:375

Not now, with current technology its impossible to prove God exists therefore its faith not science, wich doesnt mean in the future, with more information and more tech, Gods existence will remain unproven. As long as it does it will be all about believing a higher being (or many) exists, in other words having faith.



Around the Network
nuckles87 said:
Frank_kc said:
JWeinCom said:
Frank_kc said:
Definitely god exists. This is to the atheists who keep denying the existence of god. If I slap you in the face, you will get pain... Can you see pain? Can you see electricity?? Can you see frequencies? If You cant see Pain, Electricity, frequencies.. that doesnt mean it doesnt exist!!!!! You can see a proof of god creation in this world.. If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them!

If the simple thing such as the match has its makers, then the universe that far more complex than that must be has its creator.


And for all the believers in Darwin's evolution, give me an example of only one creature who changed its species.. I only challenge you with one example... Adjusting to environment doesn't change species... a bird will always be a bird. Everything Darwin's is talking about is a theory which has not been proven and if you have a proof, show it to me.

Someone has been listening to too much Ray Comfort...

 

I really dont know him nor I care who he is. I am just stating facts, not illusions.

But you aren't stating facts. You're just demonstrating your ignorance of them. XD

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but I'll list out the flaws in your argument:

1. The problem isn't that we cannot SEE God. The problem is that we have no means of detecting him.

2. We have tools that can detect and measure frequencies. We know that pain is something that we detect via pain receptors in our nerves. And we CAN actually "see" electricity. I mean, that's what lightning is, among other things. But we know electricity is there because we have a means of detecting it and utilizing it in every day life.

3. Yes, it would be irrational to think that TVs, cars, and planes built themselves....because we know we built them. We know how to make them. We know the names of the people who played a role in inventing them. We know what parts go into them.

4. But we cannot say the same for God. We have no means of detecting God. We don't know where God is. What God is. God, unlike all of these things, exists COMPLETELY outside of the realm of science and the physical world.

5. I'm gonna ask a question here: why DOES a universe as complex as ours absolutely NEED a creator?

6. Corn. You know corn, right? You know what it looks like? Before native americans utilized genetic selection to change it into what it is today, it used to look like this: http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/ad_hoc/36222000DiverseMaizeResearch/images/teoF1earzone.JPG

Of course, this happened over thousands of years. Real evolution that leads to the sort of biodiversity we have today takes millions of years.

7. Actually, birds are dinosaurs.

8. Actually, changing an environment does change a species. A polar bear is not the same species as a black bear or a sun bear. They all belong to the same family (ursidae) but genetically they are each distinct species. A polar bear evolved to survive arctic temperatures. Black bears evolved to survive in temperate, seasonal environments. Sunbears evolved to live in tropical rain forests.

9. Finally, I just want to say that evolution being a theory is the same thing as gravity being a theory. Understanding evolution is a fundemental part of modern biological science. It's how we have been genetically modifying plants and animals through artificial selection for thousands of years. It plays a critical part in our understanding of DNA. It is evident throughout the genes of all living organisms (see the above link about the bird with the dino snout) and throughout our planet's fossil record.  What's more, we've observed evolution in real time on the microbial level.

In other words, there is far more evidence for evolution, than for the idea that every living organism on planet earth was created exactly as it exists now 5000 years ago.

 

 



1- The facts that you cant detect him, again, doesnt mean that he doesnt exist. We have signs of his existence. It is very simple, who decided to have a magnetic fields around earth to protect it?  Science? Nature? or some one else? why is the shape of earth is not flat? who decided that? The science you use to defend your theories, was created by some one or did just came out of no where?

2- Check point 1

3- If you know who built cars, planes. etc...how would you explain existence of our universe with its precise system, rules  and controls. did just come up for no where?

5- Because there is no system that can create it self. Why do we need an air traffic controller in an airport, it is a complex system, it can run it self by it self.......! Didnt we need to have a creator for an air traffic control system to ensure safety of flights?

6- It is still a corn, didn it evolve to something else like an apple? How would you now that it takes millions of years? do yo u have any proof? or is it all theories and assumptions by humans?

7- Dont tell this to any one so that you wouldnt look stupid. Many creatures have skulls and bones and skeletons, and some similarities can exist in some creatures.

8- Actually, your example destroys your evolution theory. A bear it is still a bear, it only adjusted to its environment or surroundings. It didn’t evolve to something else like a Tiger for example.

 

9- We are taking about things evolving naturally based on your theories and not genetic changes made by humans. 

 

 

 

 

 





DakonBlackblade said:

Not now, with current technology its impossible to prove God exists therefore its faith not science, wich doesnt mean in the future, with more information and more tech, Gods existence will remain unproven. As long as it does it will be all about believing a higher being (or many) exists, in other words having faith.

 


Once humanity advances to the point where immortality becomes possible (ie: nano-cells that simply are able to stop aging), religion will likely largely become a thing of the past. 

We need the crutch of religion for now because we can't cope with the concept of death primarily. Once that evaporates the functional need for religion likely fizzles out too, who cares about an after life if you don't ever die in the first place. 



Frank_kc said:
Definitely god exists. This is to the atheists who keep denying the existence of god. If I slap you in the face, you will get pain... Can you see pain? Can you see electricity?? Can you see frequencies? If You cant see Pain, Electricity, frequencies.. that doesnt mean it doesnt exist!!!!! You can see a proof of god creation in this world.. If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them!

If the simple thing such as the match has its makers, then the universe that far more complex than that must be has its creator.


And for all the believers in Darwin's evolution, give me an example of only one creature who changed its species.. I only challenge you with one example... Adjusting to environment doesn't change species... a bird will always be a bird. Everything Darwin's is talking about is a theory which has not been proven and if you have a proof, show it to me.

Someone doesn't understand science. Darwin's evolution is different to speciation. And we've arguably already seen the start of speciation. In the lab with fruit flies, with different birds in the Galapagos, and with all the different species of domestic dogs (if you can get a Great Dane to successfully mate with a chiwawa...)

@ bolded I can see all those things. We have instruments that can measure them. Can't do that for god. 



Frank_kc said:
nuckles87 said:

But you aren't stating facts. You're just demonstrating your ignorance of them. XD

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but I'll list out the flaws in your argument:

1. The problem isn't that we cannot SEE God. The problem is that we have no means of detecting him.

2. We have tools that can detect and measure frequencies. We know that pain is something that we detect via pain receptors in our nerves. And we CAN actually "see" electricity. I mean, that's what lightning is, among other things. But we know electricity is there because we have a means of detecting it and utilizing it in every day life.

3. Yes, it would be irrational to think that TVs, cars, and planes built themselves....because we know we built them. We know how to make them. We know the names of the people who played a role in inventing them. We know what parts go into them.

4. But we cannot say the same for God. We have no means of detecting God. We don't know where God is. What God is. God, unlike all of these things, exists COMPLETELY outside of the realm of science and the physical world.

5. I'm gonna ask a question here: why DOES a universe as complex as ours absolutely NEED a creator?

6. Corn. You know corn, right? You know what it looks like? Before native americans utilized genetic selection to change it into what it is today, it used to look like this: http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2UserFiles/ad_hoc/36222000DiverseMaizeResearch/images/teoF1earzone.JPG

Of course, this happened over thousands of years. Real evolution that leads to the sort of biodiversity we have today takes millions of years.

7. Actually, birds are dinosaurs.

8. Actually, changing an environment does change a species. A polar bear is not the same species as a black bear or a sun bear. They all belong to the same family (ursidae) but genetically they are each distinct species. A polar bear evolved to survive arctic temperatures. Black bears evolved to survive in temperate, seasonal environments. Sunbears evolved to live in tropical rain forests.

9. Finally, I just want to say that evolution being a theory is the same thing as gravity being a theory. Understanding evolution is a fundemental part of modern biological science. It's how we have been genetically modifying plants and animals through artificial selection for thousands of years. It plays a critical part in our understanding of DNA. It is evident throughout the genes of all living organisms (see the above link about the bird with the dino snout) and throughout our planet's fossil record.  What's more, we've observed evolution in real time on the microbial level.

In other words, there is far more evidence for evolution, than for the idea that every living organism on planet earth was created exactly as it exists now 5000 years ago.

 

 



1- The facts that you cant detect him, again, doesnt mean that he doesnt exist. We have signs of his existence. It is very simple, who decided to have a magnetic fields around earth to protect it?  Science? Nature? or some one else? why is the shape of earth is not flat? who decided that? The science you use to defend your theories, was created by some one or did just came out of no where?

2- Check point 1

3- If you know who built cars, planes. etc...how would you explain existence of our universe with its precise system, rules  and controls. did just come up for no where?

5- Because there is no system that can create it self. Why do we need an air traffic controller in an airport, it is a complex system, it can run it self by it self.......! Didnt we need to have a creator for an air traffic control system to ensure safety of flights?

6- It is still a corn, didn it evolve to something else like an apple? How would you now that it takes millions of years? do yo u have any proof? or is it all theories and assumptions by humans?

7- Dont tell this to any one so that you wouldnt look stupid. Many creatures have skulls and bones and skeletons, and some similarities can exist in some creatures.

8- Actually, your example destroys your evolution theory. A bear it is still a bear, it only adjusted to its environment or surroundings. It didn’t evolve to something else like a Tiger for example.

 

9- We are taking about things evolving naturally based on your theories and not genetic changes made by humans.

1 & 2: You're inferring existence from something that could be completely unrelated and jumping to conclusions.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magearth.html

God doesn't need to be present for the Earth's magnetic fields to happen. Whilst all the other phenomena you mentioned can actually be reliably measured and detected. You saying "god must have done it" doesn't actually make it so, it just means you haven't researched the topic fully.

3- No, potentially everything has always existed. Or the simple answer is we don't know. You're the one assuming that there is a creator or that there has to be one. Why?

5- So who created God?

6- We have the fossil records of the gradual changes, we have massive GB of DNA databases that show the evolution of different organisms over time. The databases and the principles of evolution are actually used in labs to create and manufacture Biopharmaceuticals to help treat disease. If evolution didn't exist then a number of treatments wouldn't exist either as we would never have been able to create them. 

7- These are tracked through time so you can actually track the evolution.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs12052-009-0133-4

Denying this just makes you look ignorant.

8- No, a polar bear isn't just a bear in the same way a Tiger isn't a Lion. They share a common ancestor, but they're completely different species. You may need to lookup the definition of a species.

9- If evolution didn't exist then humans wouldn't be able to make these genetic changes as fast as we have done. Scientists use the priciples of evolution as tools to speed up process of genetic modification. You can deny it, but it's as ridiculous as someone saying gravity doesn't exist.



Around the Network
Mr.Playstation said:

Moses- Existed
Jesus- Existed
Abraham -Existed

They all talked about the same god and there was a period of 2000 years between Abraham and Jesus.

how you know that moses and abraham existed ??

jesus is another case

like Muhammad and all other prophets 

God exists because the world was not created automaticely



REQUIESCAT IN PACE

I Hate REMASTERS

I Hate PLAYSTATION PLUS

sabvre42 said:
Nem said:

 

Nonsense. Why does it require faith to believe an infinite universe? Is it because you can't wrap your head around it, if its not finite? It requires alot more faith to think a more complex beeing came and created it. Because then we need to understand how that beeing came to be. And don't give me "he just is". It's not.

You have a funny concept of things. First, even if everything you said is true, you can't jump to God as the explanation. It isn't the only explanation. Its the only one YOU can think of, that says the same as "I dont really know".

You obviously have the wrong concept of "Nothing". There is no nothing. Its a human concept. There is always something everywhere in our known universe. There is always something even in the micro atomic level. There is no such thing as nothing. Please try to understand that because its where your logic fundamentally starts on a faulty place.

Also, why are you trying to understand something as complex as the universe by constraining yourself with human perceptions? We were created to think and live in this planet. We were not created to understand the complexities of the fabric of the universe. We have to think outside our confort zone to reach conclusions.  There is no question towards wich the answer is: "God created it". Not a single one. Every single one that has appeared has been proven wrong. Be it the earth beeing flat, or that humans were created as they are.

The theory that everything has a cause is created by us of course, because everything does in our perceptions. But how does God created this universe circunvent that? It displaces the question to "who/what created god?" and therefore God is an expendable link in the chain.

Truth is, you are simply saying you dont know, but you can't leave it at that. You have to say God did it. Why? Just because you don't understand how it works yet, it doesn't mean a very unplausable God has to exist. It does become your onus to prove his existance because he is completely expendable.

Do yourself a favor and read a thread before making posts like this. I have already addressed EVERY SINGLE sentence in your post.

Your BIGGEST flaw in ALL your reasoning is the assumption that "god" is a sentient theistic being. I've cleary stated multiple times that "god." Is an abstract concept that is outside the realm of our thought. LOL - apparently the same argument you try to use to rationalize the infinite universe :-/. Its funny how people will try to attack ALL forms of creationism by throwing naturalistic laws at it -- but then the infinite universe paradox is just fine - cause aethism.

 

That absolutely ridiculous. You are completely closed minded and didnt understand what i just told you at all. I am telling you you need to keep an open mind and stop using your own human perceptions on trying to understand something that we weren't built to understand, but have the capability to. Infinite is something we can't picture, but wether or not we can, if it exists, it exists. Its a possibility. We don't know.

You don't know either. Your problem is that you don't know and instead of accepting it and trying to find out the truth with evidence, you fabricate one in this God concept. What is fine, is what is real, wether we like it or not. Nothing about any God is based on reality, its 100% made up. You not knowing does not prove the existance of anything nor make it any more likely than the easter bunny doing these same things.

Nothing in the world is explained by God. Why should it start now?



Frank_kc said:
Definitely god exists. This is to the atheists who keep denying the existence of god. If I slap you in the face, you will get pain... Can you see pain? Can you see electricity?? Can you see frequencies? If You cant see Pain, Electricity, frequencies.. that doesnt mean it doesnt exist!!!!! You can see a proof of god creation in this world.. If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them!

If the simple thing such as the match has its makers, then the universe that far more complex than that must be has its creator.


And for all the believers in Darwin's evolution, give me an example of only one creature who changed its species.. I only challenge you with one example... Adjusting to environment doesn't change species... a bird will always be a bird. Everything Darwin's is talking about is a theory which has not been proven and if you have a proof, show it to me.

 

Electricity and frequencies Are exremely easy to detect and quantify (your radio is able to filter out specific frequencies.) The brain activity associated with pain is likewise viewed with the proper equipment.

 

What concerns evolution... You should really do a bit of research about that before commenting. It isn't pokemon. It is a process spanning over milions of years based on simple, matbematically sound principals. 

Evolution does not occure during the lifetime of a specimen. (That would be Lamarck theory, an early branch which was rapidly disused by scientists) It is between generations that modifications are seen.

 

To understand evolution , one has to understand genetics; you are similar, but not identical to your parents. If certain traits that you have make it more likely that you survive than someone else, even if ever so slightly, this trait will, in the course of hundreds and hundreds if generations, be orevalent for all of mankind.

 

There are numerous examples of such nstural selection in historical record.

There is a certain ethnic minority which was, thousands of years ago, hit by a major disease.  Some had however a traight gibing them resistance to the disease. This otherwise neutral traight had devellopped in one of their ancestors, during his conception. In this situation, it made it much more likely for younto have children, thus, after a couple of generations, all had the trait ( as it is highly likely that you inherit a specific trait from your parent. ) 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Nighthawk117 said:
Nem said:
Nighthawk117 said:

The question is: " Is God's existence objectively verifiable?"

Guys, the answer is rather really simple.
If you can prove that ghosts exist, then I would say unequivocally that God exists.
Evolution cannot explain the existence of ghosts, which is the human soul.
Only God could have created the human soul, and thus ghosts.

Now, good luck proving to me that ghosts exist, because I would need to see them with my own eyes.

 

Err... what? Even if Ghost's existed i don't know how you jump to "only God could have created them". I'm sure there would be a logical explanation. But, it needs to be real to have a logical explanation.

 

Give me one good logical explanation for the existence of ghosts.  You can't.  If they exist, it is not because of evolution or some other natural cause.  Only a supreme being could have created ghosts, which is a human soul. 

Since it is impossible to prove the existence of God, I merely offer that if any of you can prove the existence of ghosts then I will infer that such proof can be used to deduce that God/supreme being must exist as well.

 

Nonsense. Making up stuff is the easiest thing. Sure, it maybe be that a print of your beeing slips into a different dimension where its traped in the shock moment of your death. Theres a possibility. Different dimension, different rules. But still... no need for a God.

Really God = I don't know. Why is it that "i don't know" is so difficult to accept? We just need to find out how it works.

But i will agree with you, both are very very unprobable. And i can see how one beeing true would make the leapof faith to the other easier, but still... very illogical.



I find it more believable that something created this world to be honest then by luck everything happened in a specific order of random occurrences to create this world. Seriously, look at what scientists believe (which always changes) and see how crazy it is that all these things happen in a specific order to create us. The odds of this to be correct has to be in the same realm as winning the lottery over and over.