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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - New NX details from Ubisoft dev; portable device will launch first (rumor)

 

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Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:
I think there is one silly notion that has to kind end and I suspect the NX will "kill it".

The notion is that portable/handheld is the "kid brother". The modern Nintendo portable IS basically a console. It can now run basically all the main Nintendo IP and the graphics are getting good enough that it can tangiably be the main Nintendo platform.

That's basically what I think will happen with the NX, the portable will become effectively the lead platform even from a development POV ... meaning it will have ALL the main Nintendo games, not just "spin-off/side" versions any longer.

Nintendo can't support basically two consoles simultaneously, that's basically what would be the issue and why the NX has to unify its library.

The day where the handheld was just this cute little device that was trying its damndest to run a 2D Mario game are long over.

Today they are basically full fledged and require as much resources as a Nintendo console would.

Especially once you get past GameCube level graphics and start to get into PS3/360 type visuals and the scope afforded by such large processing power, your development costs increase big time.

Even in the Wii/DS area, Nintendo was really able to support two because they Wii still had relatively low end graphics and DS even moreso (N64/Playstation 1 range 3D). And even then we saw towards the end of the Wii's lifecycle they were unable to support the Wii any longer as they were really making 3DS games behind the scenes.

And this gen, trying to support both the Wii U and 3DS has been a total and complete disaster.

You have a very weird definition for disaster.



I mean in terms of software support they have not been able to support both at the same time. Poor Iwata apologized for a lack of 3DS and/or Wii U games like what? 20 times this generation? 

This is not even really a slight to Nintendo. You can't support two consoles at one time. Sony or MS wouldn't be able to do it either. And yes, I said two consoles. 

Nintendo portables are for all intents and purposes consoles now too, this is not the 90s anymore when you could throw out maybe 6-7 handheld games a year made by teams of 10 people (half of which were downports of SNES games). The modern Nintendo portable requires as many games and as many of the main Nintendo IP as the home console does nowadays and those games are not easy to make, and it will get even worse with the natural jump in processing power the next Nintendo portable will have. 

That's why unifying isn't a "maybe" IMO ... it has to happen, or Nintendo is going to have to abandon consoles period (given the choice they can't abandon the portable line as it outsells the console line by large margins even to this day). 



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If this is true (and I hope that it is), I am glad that Ubisoft is working on a Rayman game for it.



DélioPT said:
Nintendo spent quiet for 1.5 years regarding Wii U projects or significant ones?

These are games announced at E3 that were released in the year or years after that E3:

E3 2013 - Mario Kart 8; Bayonetta 2; XC X; DKCR TP; Smash Brothers
E3 2014 - Yoshi; Kirby; Starfox; Splatoon; Mario Maker
E3 2015 - Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis

Nem, do you see the difference? And i'm not even including games announced/first shown outside of E3 like Hyrule Warriors, Mario 3D World, Captain Toad and FExSMT.

You don't hold back games for a console that has no 3rd party support. You show what you got because you have nothing more.
If Nintendo really had intentions of supporting Wii U until 2017, you would have seen them announced at E3 last year, yet, you saw pratically nothing. That, is a sign of a platform that has reached it's end and not a sign of a console that will last into 2017.

 

I love how you guys think that Nintendo is this powerhouse that is holding back this huge development power and are seeking external help cause they are totally focused on the next project. Nintendo is already pumping as many titles as they can. The external help is there because they can't cope.

But i don't deny that they are working on NX stuff already. What i deny is that if the NX is a next-gen console and it will be ready this year. Pretty much zero chance of that happening. Complete pipe dream. If it did the NX would rushed into the market with small or extremely rushed titles that couldn't possibly display its potencial. A complete disaster.

Even if its the next-gen portable, it will be unlikely it will be ready in terms of software. But at least its more likely than a next-gen console.

AKA, Nintendo never even hinted at a 2016 release, and anyone that looks at Nintendo's last 5 years knows the mere sugestion is wishful thinking.



zorg1000 said:

 

OK, even if we exclude the 3DS release, that's still only 3 year & 3 months between Return to Dreamland & Rainbow Curse. Even so, how do u explain all those other studios releasing HD games in the same time frame it took them to release SD games? How did ND Cube release 2 games in late 2013 then release 2 HD games in 2015? How did EAD 1 release MK8 in 2.5 years?

 

2.5 years is exactly the minimum i would expect for next-gen development. Any less than that its small titles. Tell us wich games ND cube release and you have your answer. Oh Wii party U and mario party island and mario party 10 took them 2 years after that. What amazingly intensive graphical experiences that don't share assets and systems at all! Wii party U doesnt reuse asset's from Nintendo land at all, and its such a deep rich experience. Yeah... you will find this always adds up. 

Dude, i just don't say that its completely impossible just in the case Nintendo goes insane and self-destructs. This dream of yours can't possibly happen. If it does it won't be what you expect either. Nintendo just simpy needs more time to deliver on that, if its what they are working on.



Soundwave said:

I agree with you there, but I think in this scenario there should be an even more fundamental rethink of what both platforms do. Once you make this change, it's a radical change for Nintendo, it's like not having Turkey on Christmas Dinner ... well I mean everything else becomes a question too ... do you need stuffing? bread rolls? Doesn't make sense if you're having Chinese food. 

To me going *too* cheap with the portable is problematic in that the technology first needs to be decent in order to run the main Nintendo games. That's for one. But the other is, I think when you are competing for relevance against cheap games (free on smartphone) and tablets that are going to be $50-$75 soon (with good sized HD displays) ... you can't win on price. 

So you need to redefine the portable gaming experience, to me they should make the portable more like a "travelling hub" that can also become like a console and stream to devices around it. Powerful *but* affordable, like the N64/GCN/SNES were. Whatever ideas your R&D have to differniate it from tablets from a value perspective jump all over that and encourage those ideas. 

The console then in a way, you have freedom now to maybe do some things you wouldn't otherwise since the main portable essentially covers the needs of a "standard" Nintendo console. 

I'd go upmarket with the dedicated home console too and make it quite powerful. Reason being is lets face it they're not selling many consoles as is, even though their console is the cheapest. If you get more hardcore hardware fetishists with the console, these people tend to buy a shit-ton of games, so at least you boost your attach rate there.

Honestly I'd like to see them really embrace the "multi-tier" hardware strategy if that's what they're going to do. Don't just adhere to the rules of the 1980s then, make some hardware models you wouldn't normally make I say, because it doesn't matter so much then if one model doesn't sell like gangbusters, every one brings it a different audience, and every bit of marketshare/audience share is valuable going forward. 

You don't want a cheap console and cheap portable that basically are aimed at the same exact market. Different NXes should be aimed at different markets, I think that'd be a smarter way to go. 

yeah...  I`ve been wondering why no company has done this before.  Maybe the closed nature of consoles makes it harder than we think.



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Nem said:
DélioPT said:
Nintendo spent quiet for 1.5 years regarding Wii U projects or significant ones?

These are games announced at E3 that were released in the year or years after that E3:

E3 2013 - Mario Kart 8; Bayonetta 2; XC X; DKCR TP; Smash Brothers
E3 2014 - Yoshi; Kirby; Starfox; Splatoon; Mario Maker
E3 2015 - Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis

Nem, do you see the difference? And i'm not even including games announced/first shown outside of E3 like Hyrule Warriors, Mario 3D World, Captain Toad and FExSMT.

You don't hold back games for a console that has no 3rd party support. You show what you got because you have nothing more.
If Nintendo really had intentions of supporting Wii U until 2017, you would have seen them announced at E3 last year, yet, you saw pratically nothing. That, is a sign of a platform that has reached it's end and not a sign of a console that will last into 2017.

 

I love how you guys think that Nintendo is this powerhouse that is holding back this huge development power and are seeking external help cause they are totally focused on the next project. Nintendo is already pumping as many titles as they can. The external help is there because they can't cope.

But i don't deny that they are working on NX stuff already. What i deny is that if the NX is a next-gen console and it will be ready this year. Pretty much zero chance of that happening. Complete pipe dream. If it did the NX would rushed into the market with small or extremely rushed titles that couldn't possibly display its potencial. A complete disaster.

Even if its the next-gen portable, it will be unlikely it will be ready in terms of software. But at least its more likely than a next-gen console.

AKA, Nintendo never even hinted at a 2016 release, and anyone that looks at Nintendo's last 5 years knows the mere sugestion is wishful thinking.

They not only hinted at it they said it directly. Iwata said a new definition of video games was something they were working on and it would take 2 years roughly to realize it. That was in May 2014. So that's false. Whether or not they make that time frame we don't know but to say they have not even hinted at it when they out right said it is false. 

Next-gen portable doesn't matter .... console whatever. It means no Wii U support in a serious way once development begins. They can't just "ease" into a launch, the next-gen portable is arguably the most important hardware product in Nintendo history. If that fails, then the company is pretty much done for as a hardware maker, period. 

So probably the main Nintendo teams are all working on next-gen portable games and have been for some time already (probably since a year ago if not earlier). 

Either way Wii U is done for. Sure it'll get some middling support from here on out but not much. Fact is it's been given largely a fair shake by Nintendo already anyway. They gave it all their big gun franchises -- Mario Kart, 2D Mario, 3D Mario, Wii Sports/Fit Smash Brothers, it will get Zelda (maybe not exclusive but still), and it got Splatoon, Nintendo Land, Bayonetta, and Mario Maker which makes up for a couple of missing IP (every Nintendo console is missing something). 

I think they can launch NX because it is a unified platform which means after Wii U and 3DS, their dev libraries are no longer split. As such they can combine their full software resources behind basically one platform and just scale games up or down a bit and call it a day. Throw in some Wii U projects that they held back (like the real Animal Crossing) and some shared projects (possibly the next Zelda) and it becomes fairly easy to launch NX this year to be honest. 

Nintendo's known for a long time that the Wii U was a bomb and it wasn't going to be saved, so they've had a long time to prep IMO. Once the 2013 holiday was over and the sales for the system were brutal, they knew then that there was no saving it and they started to brainstorm the NX concept IMO. They knew that the casual audience that drove the Wii to success had abandoned them, it was no secret then, and dropping the price wasn't going to save a floundering console because they've gone through that with the GameCube already (couldn't even hit 25 million despite being $99 for half its life cycle). 



DélioPT said:
Nintendo spent quiet for 1.5 years regarding Wii U projects or significant ones?

These are games announced at E3 that were released in the year or years after that E3:

E3 2013 - Mario Kart 8; Bayonetta 2; XC X; DKCR TP; Smash Brothers
E3 2014 - Yoshi; Kirby; Starfox; Splatoon; Mario Maker
E3 2015 - Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis

Nem, do you see the difference? And i'm not even including games announced/first shown outside of E3 like Hyrule Warriors, Mario 3D World, Captain Toad and FExSMT.

You don't hold back games for a console that has no 3rd party support. You show what you got because you have nothing more.
If Nintendo really had intentions of supporting Wii U until 2017, you would have seen them announced at E3 last year, yet, you saw pratically nothing. That, is a sign of a platform that has reached it's end and not a sign of a console that will last into 2017.

Actually XC C and Yoshi were announced at ND in January 2013.





Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:
Nintendo spent quiet for 1.5 years regarding Wii U projects or significant ones?

These are games announced at E3 that were released in the year or years after that E3:

E3 2013 - Mario Kart 8; Bayonetta 2; XC X; DKCR TP; Smash Brothers
E3 2014 - Yoshi; Kirby; Starfox; Splatoon; Mario Maker
E3 2015 - Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis

Nem, do you see the difference? And i'm not even including games announced/first shown outside of E3 like Hyrule Warriors, Mario 3D World, Captain Toad and FExSMT.

You don't hold back games for a console that has no 3rd party support. You show what you got because you have nothing more.
If Nintendo really had intentions of supporting Wii U until 2017, you would have seen them announced at E3 last year, yet, you saw pratically nothing. That, is a sign of a platform that has reached it's end and not a sign of a console that will last into 2017.

Actually XC C and Yoshi were announced at ND in January 2013.



Bayo 2 was announced in Sept, 2012.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6jnq9mggWg





Soundwave said:
Thunderbird77 said:
Soundwave said:
I think there is one silly notion that has to kind end and I suspect the NX will "kill it".

The notion is that portable/handheld is the "kid brother". The modern Nintendo portable IS basically a console. It can now run basically all the main Nintendo IP and the graphics are getting good enough that it can tangiably be the main Nintendo platform.

That's basically what I think will happen with the NX, the portable will become effectively the lead platform even from a development POV ... meaning it will have ALL the main Nintendo games, not just "spin-off/side" versions any longer.

Nintendo can't support basically two consoles simultaneously, that's basically what would be the issue and why the NX has to unify its library.

The day where the handheld was just this cute little device that was trying its damndest to run a 2D Mario game are long over.

Today they are basically full fledged and require as much resources as a Nintendo console would.

Especially once you get past GameCube level graphics and start to get into PS3/360 type visuals and the scope afforded by such large processing power, your development costs increase big time.

Even in the Wii/DS area, Nintendo was really able to support two because they Wii still had relatively low end graphics and DS even moreso (N64/Playstation 1 range 3D). And even then we saw towards the end of the Wii's lifecycle they were unable to support the Wii any longer as they were really making 3DS games behind the scenes.

And this gen, trying to support both the Wii U and 3DS has been a total and complete disaster.

You have a very weird definition for disaster.



I mean in terms of software support they have not been able to support both at the same time. Poor Iwata apologized for a lack of 3DS and/or Wii U games like what? 20 times this generation? 

This is not even really a slight to Nintendo. You can't support two consoles at one time. Sony or MS wouldn't be able to do it either. And yes, I said two consoles. 

Nintendo portables are for all intents and purposes consoles now too, this is not the 90s anymore when you could throw out maybe 6-7 handheld games a year made by teams of 10 people (half of which were downports of SNES games). The modern Nintendo portable requires as many games and as many of the main Nintendo IP as the home console does nowadays and those games are not easy to make, and it will get even worse with the natural jump in processing power the next Nintendo portable will have. 

That's why unifying isn't a "maybe" IMO ... it has to happen, or Nintendo is going to have to abandon consoles period (given the choice they can't abandon the portable line as it outsells the console line by large margins even to this day). 

There were less games than usual but not much, something understandable due to their inexperience with HD. Same architeture on both systems and the experience they got this gen will ensure the same situation doesn't repeat itself.





Nem said:
DélioPT said:
Nintendo spent quiet for 1.5 years regarding Wii U projects or significant ones?

These are games announced/shown at E3 that were released in the year or years after that E3:

E3 2013 - Mario Kart 8; Bayonetta 2; XC X; DKCR TP; Smash Brothers, Yoshi
E3 2014 - Kirby; Starfox; Splatoon; Mario Maker
E3 2015 - Animal Crossing and Mario Tennis

Nem, do you see the difference? And i'm not even including games announced/first shown outside of E3 like Hyrule Warriors, Mario 3D World, Captain Toad and FExSMT.

You don't hold back games for a console that has no 3rd party support. You show what you got because you have nothing more.
If Nintendo really had intentions of supporting Wii U until 2017, you would have seen them announced at E3 last year, yet, you saw pratically nothing. That, is a sign of a platform that has reached it's end and not a sign of a console that will last into 2017.

 

I love how you guys think that Nintendo is this powerhouse that is holding back this huge development power and are seeking external help cause they are totally focused on the next project. Nintendo is already pumping as many titles as they can. The external help is there because they can't cope.

But i don't deny that they are working on NX stuff already. What i deny is that if the NX is a next-gen console and it will be ready this year. Pretty much zero chance of that happening. Complete pipe dream. If it did the NX would rushed into the market with small or extremely rushed titles that couldn't possibly display its potencial. A complete disaster.

Even if its the next-gen portable, it will be unlikely it will be ready in terms of software. But at least its more likely than a next-gen console.

AKA, Nintendo never even hinted at a 2016 release, and anyone that looks at Nintendo's last 5 years knows the mere sugestion is wishful thinking.

"I love how you guys think that Nintendo is this powerhouse that is holding back this huge development power..."

What i said was exactly the opposite: Nintendo doesn't have the resources to really support it's consoles all the way. And more than once did that became reality: GC's and Wii's last years are proof of that.
And if you look at what is happening, the lack of games last year at E3 shows exactly that: Nintendo is preparing for next gen. And that's why you saw a lack of games announced for Wii U last year.

Co-operating with other studios could mean a few things, one of them could be that Nintendo's role is more of a Directing position in the development or even being charge of the minor things.

Actually the last years do show that Nintendo can not ride Wii U any longer and for several reasons: they don't have 3rd party support to make up for their games' absence; retailers would not accept that situation; sales are already low enough for any console to be replaced, let alone live 2 more years; Nintendo wants Nintendo like profits... now!

If Nintendo launches NX home console in 2017 with what or they going to fill their release schedule? Where are the games? If they have them why didn't they announce them last year?
And the reason is they don't have them. They might even have a surprise or two but normal support? They don't.
If they somehow managed to announce more Wii U games for 2017 that would endanger NX's support and after Wii U i really doubt they are going to take that huge risk.

Why would NX be rushed? XB360, despite it's RROD problem turned out great despite PS3 being a superior machine - one year after.
Why would Nintendo rush titles? 2016 and 2017 would mean Nintendo had pratically 2 years to develop games and release them. How is that rushed?

Again, it's not that NX can't be released in 2017, it's that after Wii U's disaster you don't act like nothing happen. You cut your losses and move on to next console as soon as possbile!
It's Nintendo's position in the home console business that is at stake here. And the stakes are really high this time.

 

Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:
 

Actually XC C and Yoshi were announced at ND in January 2013.

I put Yoshi in the wrong year. But i didn't separate the January ND and E3 because they were almost one and the same.

 

bigtakilla said:
Miyamotoo said:

Bayo 2 was announced in Sept, 2012.

  You're right. I forgot about that.