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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo has started to pick on Gamers on Youtube again - ProJared gets slammed

Wyrdness said:
DerNebel said:

No I did not only present only one article, I presented one article and several other games as examples which apparently simply didn't fit your agenda. And I can't help you if you aren't willing to use the slightest bit of logic here and see the connection between the uptake of a certain game by a huge Youtuber and a spike in its demand.

Also what in the world is the bolded even supposed to mean, since when is advertisement done for free?

And how about instead of talking about me giving proof for something that should be deductable via logic, how about you give me proof for the sales to billboard view correlation that you apparently simply lying around?

Finally let me try a little mind experiment here: What do you think is better word of mouth?

1. Someone telling his 10 friends about this awesome game he's been playing

2. A person on Youtube with 30mil+ subscriber base telling that base about this awesome game he's playing and showing them this game?

Don't rush your answer, really think about this.

Yup, they are getting destroyed by the PS4, which is also using Youtube as a promotion platform as well as Youtubers. What about EA? Is the biggest third party publisher in the world also getting destroyed?


Yawn advertisement is done for free if you do it with out any agreement, why should you get paid for their product if you weren't asked to do it? That's why the whole argument is nothing more then BS as to why they should be paid, they should just come out and admit it's all about the money and they're upset that the games that could pull in the most views won't be monetized. Again I see the potential in it but I don't buy that all those views translate to sales like you're trying to sell, you yourself are refusing to acknowledge this flaw because it's your own agenda.

Well pity then that agreements are in place, the user agreements actually include that. Also do you have some sort of reading difficulty?:

"Nobody is saying that a video with a lot of Youtube views instantly equals a lot of sales, just like a billboard that's seen by a lot of people doesn't instantly equal a lot of sales, but to dismiss Youtube as irrelevant in marketing is just willfully trying to ignore the current world we're living in."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7503022


The YT may speak to more people but then that's ignoring factors and here is how you're struggling to understand the factors in play, that person can tells 10 of their friends and 7 of them buy the game, on a YT channel of that 30m subs 100k may watch the video with non of them ending up buying the game, a number of views on a video are also repeat views from the same users. Some users also don't tune into these videos for the games but just for the personality playing them like a number of YTs play a game throwing around crude humour or just plain raging which some just tune in solely for that. These are some of the factors in why I don't buy the advertisment excuse when it's thrown around, I can see the potential but I think we're still a way off until YT can rival traditional marketing.

Meanwhile, the possibility of the people that are told about a game by their friends all not buying it is of course non-existant. I'm not ignoring these factors, you're just blowing them out of proportion to paint a completely skewed picture, to say a person with an audience of over 30 million people isn't an extremely powerful marketingtool is just ridiculous. It is the same with literally every other form of star, why shouldn't it be the same for these Youtube personalities?

EA have been the third biggest publisher long before YT but guess who the biggest publisher are, Nintendo, you know the guys who don't do what you're saying go figure.

Lol, no Nintendo isn't the biggest publisher, last year Nintendo barely had revenue above EA and that is including hardware, and if you wanna go ahead and count hardware as well, then you know it's not Nintendo coming out on top here. Also I find it hilarious how you're now apparently trying ot sell me Nintendo as this company that really knows what's up in marketing, when one of the first reasons that is always brought up by Nintendo fans to explain the failure of the Wii U is the horrible marketing. Make up your mind guys.





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DerNebel said:

...


You try to use reading as an attack yet your replies indicate you're guilty of just that. YT wasn't dismissed as I said I can see the potential I just don't buy that as an excuse for the LPs you've been championing and don't see it anywhere near on par with traditional marketing, that's your first reading error your second is in claiming someone said Nintendo knows what's up in marketing, well no such thing was said highlighting an agenda on your end to just throw out an attack or bait thinking it'll gain you any ground. Revenue doesn't make a company bigger unless you're saying that Nintendo during the Wii years were bigger then both Sony and MS combined.

I highlighted the issue with YT personalities in a few factors, 30m subs doesn't mean 30m views btw which is why I refer to it as potential, another factor not touched upon is that these personalities aren't trying to sell the game at all but themselves. It's much like Brokers at any institute, they're not selling you the product but more so themselves, because that's what brings in the views, many people viewing may not even care about the games being played at all this is before we then factor in how many people may have multiple channels subcribed to the same person more for convenience and so on the are just a number of overlapping factors. It's not blowing it out of proportion it's just highlighting factors, what is blown out of proportion is how you're practically making it out like views equal sales.

The potential is there but I don't think it's even close to being harnested.



That's a lot of copyrights in just simply one single game. Super Mario Maker.

I think Nintendo(and other publishers) should fix this stuff & let's players should make alt channel without monetizing or else the situation still ongoing, it's up to them.

Youtube's copyright system is terrible.

Edit: Oh, one more thing, i already noticed that Super Mario Maker isn't even come out yet...... -.-'



Samus Aran said:
Platina said:
Here we go again.. D:

Nobody bat an eye when Sony & Activision did the same to the jimquisition though (on a non-let's play, non-monetized video).

Are you saying double standarts? /s

Here is an exemple of what "fans" posing as tech "journalists" behaviour is when it comes to Sony:

http://mashable.com/2015/09/02/sony-xperia-z5-premium-4k/

It's like a cult, Sony can do no wrong, it's not fandom anymore it's more profound & dangerous, they are worshippers as they will spread lies on Sony behalf knowingly!

It's like religious integrism/radicalism.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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Wyrdness said:
DerNebel said:

...


You try to use reading as an attack yet your replies indicate you're guilty of just that. YT wasn't dismissed as I said I can see the potential I just don't buy that as an excuse for the LPs you've been championing and don't see it anywhere near on par with traditional marketing, that's your first reading error your second is in claiming someone said Nintendo knows what's up in marketing, well no such thing was said highlighting an agenda on your end to just throw out an attack or bait thinking it'll gain you any ground. Revenue doesn't make a company bigger unless you're saying that Nintendo during the Wii years were bigger then both Sony and MS combined.

I highlighted the issue with YT personalities in a few factors, 30m subs doesn't mean 30m views btw which is why I refer to it as potential, another factor not touched upon is that these personalities aren't trying to sell the game at all but themselves. It's much like Brokers at any institute, they're not selling you the product but more so themselves, because that's what brings in the views, many people viewing may not even care about the games being played at all this is before we then factor in how many people may have multiple channels subcribed to the same person more for convenience and so on the are just a number of overlapping factors. It's not blowing it out of proportion it's just highlighting factors, what is blown out of proportion is how you're practically making it out like views equal sales.

The potential is there but I don't think it's even close to being harnested.

bolded: Is lying on the internet fun?

Then let's go through your own posts then.

1. "...advertising in these arguments when these videos have little to no influence in that matter."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7502840

2. "...I've yet to see any indication that these videos lead to extra sales and tbh I don't think they really do"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7502925

3. "...I've seen videos of low selling games with massive views yet no change of situation at all indicating the videos are not much of a factor at all."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7502996

4. "The point is that if the so called exposure is valid marketing more of these games would be selling from the amount of views they get but obviously that's not the case"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7503035

5. "...you're arguing how intended marketing doesn't guarantee this and that then turn around and try to argue a YT video increases sales etc..."

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=7503221

Literally your first five posts in this thread say nothing about you seeing potential in Youtube nothing but dismissal of the idea, including the one that I replied to with the dismissal comment.

Then about the Nintendo marketing thing. Are you kidding me? Do I have to remember you of the conversation again? Let me remind you then:

I said MS and EA pay Youtubers to market their games

You said that it was funny that I mentioned MS' marketing cause they are failing against the PS4

I said that the Sony uses Youtubers as well and that EA, the biggest 3rd party publisher in the world, is apparently very successful marketing like that

And to that you said that Nintendo "the biggest publisher in the world" is saying no to the Youtuber thing, "so go figure"

...

The whole freaking conversation was about marketing and you brought it to Nintendo, so don't put that on me.

Revenue is a generally accepted figure to show the current size of a company in the market, also of course Nintendo was bigger in gaming than both MS and Sony combined during the peak years of the Wii.

And finally about your thoughts on the potential of Youtube marketing, the majority of gaming companies seem to disagree, so I'm pretty comfortable with my standpoint of it being a hugely important tool in todays gaming market.

I'm done with this now, gotta get to bed and this isn't going anywhere anyway.



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DerNebel said:
Samus Aran said:
Platina said:
Here we go again.. D:

Nobody bat an eye when Sony & Activision did the same to the jimquisition though (on a non-let's play, non-monetized video).

Maybe because that was a) an obvious mistake on Sonys/Activisions part (the games they flagged were MAG and the original Black Ops FFS) and b) they actually did not do the same, Sony/Activision stopped the video from being monetized, Nintendo and Konami are taking the ad revenue for themselves.

Oh and....

People shouldn't monetize let's plays in the first place.

...yeah, because why should people be paid for their work, right? What an ignorant thing to say.


I return to you your last coment: what an ignorant thing to say!

"because why should people be paid for their work, right?", I can't comprehend that you can't see what is wrong with what you are writting, the flawed logic you use.

Are all these Youtubers Nintendo workers??? No!!! So why exactly are they expecting payment from a company they don't work for??? Nobody is forcing their hand to do gaming videos, right? Furthermore using licensed IP belonging to others...

If I go tomorrow in front of a KFC & start praising how good their chicken wings are, am I entitled to anything? Am I in my own right & go in to ask money from them because I praise their chicken???

These Youtubers try to make money out of their hobby, nothing wrong with that, but keep reality in check, their work is benevolous, nobody asked or hired them to do these videos, they should be thankful that Nintendo even has a program where they can make money out of their IP, just because these youtubers decided that they wanted to make money out of playing games!

Furthermore, journalists have ethics code, they can't accept money or substancail gifts from the companies they are doing journalism on, for obvious reasons, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, ergo what they write when accepting money or favors from said companies, is nothing more than PR, marketing & publicity. 

If they want to show the world what grreat fun they are having playing a game, do so, just don't moneytize. If you want to make money the rules are quite different, ethics & IP issues come in knocking at your door & that's where you see clueless people about the real world go apeshit because of the reality check shot they were given.

All I see from these Youtubers is spoiled, rude, uneducated rants from babies who might as well live in the twilight zone, since they don't seem to know the rules of the world we live in!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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Game_God said:
DerNebel said:

Maybe because that was a) an obvious mistake on Sonys/Activisions part (the games they flagged were MAG and the original Black Ops FFS) and b) they actually did not do the same, Sony/Activision stopped the video from being monetized, Nintendo and Konami are taking the ad revenue for themselves.

Oh and....

People shouldn't monetize let's plays in the first place.

...yeah, because why should people be paid for their work, right? What an ignorant thing to say.


I return to you your last coment: what an ignorant thing to say!

"because why should people be paid for their work, right?", I can't comprehend that you can't see what is wrong with what you are writting, the flawed logic you use.

Are all these Youtubers Nintendo workers??? No!!! So why exactly are they expecting payment from a company they don't work for??? Nobody is forcing their hand to do gaming videos, right? Furthermore using licensed IP belonging to others...

If I go tomorrow in front of a KFC & start praising how good their chicken wings are, am I entitled to anything? Am I in my own right & go in to ask money from them because I praise their chicken???

These Youtubers try to make money out of their hobby, nothing wrong with that, but keep reality in check, their work is benevolous, nobody asked or hired them to do these videos, they should be thankful that Nintendo even has a program where they can make money out of their IP, just because these youtubers decided that they wanted to make money out of playing games!

Furthermore, journalists have ethics code, they can't accept money or substancail gifts from the companies they are doing journalism on, for obvious reasons, you don't bite the hand that feeds you, ergo what they write when accepting money or favors from said companies, is nothing more than PR, marketing & publicity. 

If they want to show the world what grreat fun they are having playing a game, do so, just don't moneytize. If you want to make money the rules are quite different, ethics & IP issues come in knocking at your door & that's where you see clueless people about the real world go apeshit because of the reality check shot they were given.

All I see from these Youtubers is spoiled, rude, uneducated rants from babies who might as well live in the twilight zone, since they don't seem to know the rules of the world we live in!

Lol. The ad payments don't come from Nintendo, if you don't even know that much then don't comment.



When I saw projared the first thought that popped into my head was some ill founded nambla-esque group dedicated to supporting subway's fallen spokesman, but it turns out it's something worse than a pedophile, a mere youtube e-celebrity.



DerNebel said:
DolPhanTendo said:
I don't understand the logic of today. Let's see here is what it sounds like to me. Everything should be free for me but people should pay me more. This is what has killed intelligent thought behind music and why music is stale as shit(everyone said the same thing with Napster). Now it's slowly killing the video game industry. I will say it again,I want shit cheap and free but pay me more money, is the millennial logic.
Every Youtuber who is bitching about Nintendo blocking them for showing content is basically mad because they do not feel they should follow rules and guidelines but in turn wants to be PAID by advertisers and want more suscribers for there work, sounds a little GREEDY by the YouTubers if you ask me

And I guess Nintendo feeling entitled to the revenue created from the Youtubers work is not greedy then, huh?

Are seriously comparing the money/time Nintendo puts in their game with the half hour of filming & half hour editing made with a webcam & laptop???

So Nintendo spends millions & takes a huge risk everytime they make a game that is 99,9% of these youtubers vids (I'd love to see videos without the games being made 1st...) & they are greedy for wanting money in a product they invested huge soms of it??? On the other hand you have a Youtuber who did nothing more to buy the game & he wants Millions for swearing over playing a game & putting the vid of it on Youtube despite violating the law??? What/where/when did these youtubers contributed anything for the game to exist??? If they want to make videos of thenselves playing videogames, why don't they take the risk, invest some money & make their own game so they can post themselves playing it without trouble??? Oh wait...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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DerNebel said:

...

Again this is you not reading what's in front of you properly, you've literally only focused your attention on a few choice lines to try and justify your argument. 1 and 2 were responding to you attempting to paint views as sales, 3 and 4 highlights what I mean in that views don't equal that and 5 was responding to you dismissing traditional marketing in your attempt to argue YT equals sales.

Those posts weren't dismissing potential they were dismissing your whole notion of views to sales the's a difference, revenue highlights money being generated this however doesn't mean a company is bigger. The is no way Nintendo was bigger then MS and Sony combined, they were making more money yes but the latter are involved in multiple huge markets with notable standing in each, these companies lost as much money as Nintendo earned and are still here fine as ever that's a testament to how much bigger they are. Bigger is not just money generated, the angle I'm looking at it is one that's more from a value investing view though where size is assessed through multiple things from assets held, staff etc...

Majority of companies using YT now doesn't mean they disagree as many companies hop on something early to benefit in the long run, it's a common thing to do ever since people realized if you don't get your foot in the door now you'll be in the long queue later on. Like me they probably see the potential in the long run so want to help it grow to reap the reward years down the line when the potential is reached.