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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo NX vs Handheld Steam Machine (AKA Smach Zero - SteamBoy)

Stefan51278 said:
forethought14 said:
NX Go! won't have the 4G (I doubt Nintendo will bother), nor will it have the same resolution (probably not that high, more like 540p). I'd say it'll be less powerful due to the fact that a $299.99+ Handheld will sell horribly for Nintendo. $199.99 max. I'd say it's possible that the NX Go! will have 32GB flash memory internal, not a whole lot, will be surprised if it had more. Considering the jumps in RAM from Nintendo Handheld to Handheld, if from DSi we went from 16MB to 128MB in 3DS, a same jump from New 3DS's 256MB would lead to 2GB of RAM for the NX Go. A Quad Core CPU is likely considering the New 3DS is a Quad Core, though anything modern in architecture will be a SIGNIFICANT leap in power from those ancient ARM11 cores. For GPU, I don't know. May not match Wii U in that department, don't know what architecture they'll be using for that. AMD GCN architecture is likely, the RX 2XX would be a good fit. RX 3XX seems too recent, but you'll never know. Since it'll be priced lower than this SteamBoy, it won't match it's RAW power.


The recent AMD RX 3XX series is just a rebrand of older graphic cards with some of them having more Ram, including cards from the AMD RX 2XX series.

I think the key in the hybrid-console-handheld-business is scaling your games for the different machines. PC Games are very good with scaling their requirements for a wide range of possible hardware-configurations, there are even auto-configuration-tools like Geforce Experience from nVidia. Steam-Machines are going to do the same and this Smach Zero will play most games on low settings.

You can see similar things for example on iOS where some games can run on hardware that is four years old, but the same games are shining on the last iPad. This good perfomance on a so transforming platform (doubling graphics-perfomance every year) is simpler to implement when there is a litte number of hardware configurations that a programmer can detect and test in a reasonable period of time time like one new iPhone/iPad every fall.

This could reduce costs of developement for games that are released for this one platform on multiple machines, but this fact doesn't imply that the home console has to sacrifice most of the perfomance because of the handheld. Create a good handheld with a low-power SoC from AMD, put 2 GB of Ram in the device and a 720p screen. Runs all new games from Nintendo, but with lower graphics-quality for 199.99$ launch-price.

The home console can have a chip with higher perfomance, a higher resolution (1080p) and higher graphics-quality with 4 or 8 GB of faster Ram for 299.99$. The difference between games on those two devices would be closer than what we have seen with Smash Bros. on 3DS and WiiU.

Factory-Costs would drop soon with the use of standard-parts and it would be possible to maintain attractive hardware-prices with making some money on every sold machine. When 2018 or 2019 arrives and 4K is the new gold-standard for TV's like FullHD is today, new games could implement a third graphics-tier, a new home console with 4K launches and a new handheld with 1080p-support. No game-drought, because the whole library of games would be compatible, older games without 4K-tier-graphics just would be upscaled.

This is the only way hybrid should work.

It makes sense, but we dont know anything for sure, maybe we will get some kind of hybrid device.



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Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:


The GPU in a $200 iPod Touch (the Apple A8) can run games at 1280x720 in its sleep, and that's a product sold at a massive Apple mark up. 

I think you're underestimating where portable tech is today, running many of the types of games that Nintendo makes at 720p on a portable would be easy to do even on a sub-$250 budget by fall 2016. It's easy enough even today to be honest. 

I don't underestimating anything, my point is that lower resolution display means lower price of device itself, because resolution of display effects on power of CPU, RAM, GPU and battery. And in era of cheap smartphones that can play almost any game, Nintendo need to offer lower price point for their handheld, $150-199.

That said, I would love 720p display, it much stronger standard than 540p, it allow Nintendo to easy port Wii U games or some other benefits...but I dont think Nintendo will go for 720p display.

Of Course, we dont know anything for sure, this just is assuming that Nintendo will release again separate handheld and home consoles, but maybe we will get some kind of hybrid device with stronger specs.

I think going too cheap is fairly dangerous. You will end up with a product that looks cheap and outdated, and that doesn't sell in today's market anymore. Nintendo needs a more modern product that has functionality that people expect from a mobile device today (even kids are used to tablets, you can't sucker them anymore with a cheap device that has a shitty display for example). 

That's part of the reason the 2DS has not really taken off and why when given a choice between the more expensive 3DS XL and the cheaper regular 3DS and 2DS, the XL is the better selling model. Allowing for easy porting of Android apps would be smart in this case, the device could have a lot of functionality beyond just gaming right from day 1. 

People don't want a cheap product these days. 

Keep it under $250, is still reasonable in pricing, but when you're getting into like sub-$199 ... I think you're getting into a danger zone of having no budget to really make a product that anyone will be impressed by. The "here's some crap hardware we slapped together that has worse specs than your kid's tablet, but it's only $150" is not a sales pitch I think in this day and age anyone will swoon over. 



Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

I don't underestimating anything, my point is that lower resolution display means lower price of device itself, because resolution of display effects on power of CPU, RAM, GPU and battery. And in era of cheap smartphones that can play almost any game, Nintendo need to offer lower price point for their handheld, $150-199.

That said, I would love 720p display, it much stronger standard than 540p, it allow Nintendo to easy port Wii U games or some other benefits...but I dont think Nintendo will go for 720p display.

Of Course, we dont know anything for sure, this just is assuming that Nintendo will release again separate handheld and home consoles, but maybe we will get some kind of hybrid device with stronger specs.

I think going too cheap is fairly dangerous. You will end up with a product that looks cheap and outdated, and that doesn't sell in today's market anymore. Nintendo needs a more modern product that has functionality that people expect from a mobile device today (even kids are used to tablets, you can't sucker them anymore with a cheap device that has a shitty display for example). 

That's part of the reason the 2DS has not really taken off and why when given a choice between the more expensive 3DS XL and the cheaper regular 3DS and 2DS, the XL is the better selling model. Allowing for easy porting of Android apps would be smart in this case, the device could have a lot of functionality beyond just gaming right from day 1. 

People don't want a cheap product these days. 

Keep it under $250, is still reasonable in pricing, but when you're getting into like sub-$199 ... I think you're getting into a danger zone of having no budget to really make a product that anyone will be impressed by. 

More dangerous is releasing expensive dedicated handheld device in era of smartphones.

3DS is currently $150-200, next handheld with that price point could easily have bigger and better screen with much higher resolution and much stronger hardver, 5-6" display, ARM Cortex A-53 quad core, 2GB Ram, and suitable GPU.

Add to that very strong integration with Nintendo home console and probably playable home console games, great 1st party and great exlusives titles and you will have pretty popular dedicated handheld device with better third party support than 3DS had.



Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:

I think going too cheap is fairly dangerous. You will end up with a product that looks cheap and outdated, and that doesn't sell in today's market anymore. Nintendo needs a more modern product that has functionality that people expect from a mobile device today (even kids are used to tablets, you can't sucker them anymore with a cheap device that has a shitty display for example). 

That's part of the reason the 2DS has not really taken off and why when given a choice between the more expensive 3DS XL and the cheaper regular 3DS and 2DS, the XL is the better selling model. Allowing for easy porting of Android apps would be smart in this case, the device could have a lot of functionality beyond just gaming right from day 1. 

People don't want a cheap product these days. 

Keep it under $250, is still reasonable in pricing, but when you're getting into like sub-$199 ... I think you're getting into a danger zone of having no budget to really make a product that anyone will be impressed by. 

More dangerous is releasing expensive dedicated handheld device in era of smartphones.

3DS is currently $150-200, next handheld with that price point could easily have bigger and better screen with much higher resolution and much stronger hardver, 5-6" display, ARM Cortex A-53 quad core, 2GB Ram, and suitable GPU.

Add to that very strong integration with Nintendo home console and probably playable home console games, you will have pretty popular dedicated handheld device with better third party support than 3DS had.

$150 is a bit too low IMO. 

The 2DS/cheaper 3DS have shown people really don't want to skimp on features just for a low price point, otherwise they should be outselling the 3DS XL, but people who do choose to buy a 3DS choose by majority to pick the most expensive model. 

You can't have "strong integration" with the console if you have such a weak portable, to have somewhat seamless play between the two home/portable you're going to need some decent grunt under the hood too. 

I'd say start at a launch price of $219-$229. Still cheap, still reasoable, only a stone's throw away from the current 3DS XL, but the extra $20-$30 really gives you a lot more leeway on GPU/RAM in specific. Having a strong launch lineup (Mario/Zelda at launch, DQXI?) is a must, not like the 3DS which had an awful launch lineup and having the launch closer to Christmas will ensure a good early sales. 

Then you can scale down in cost to $199.99, 7-10 months later fairly easily as manufacturing costs come down. 



Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:

More dangerous is releasing expensive dedicated handheld device in era of smartphones.

3DS is currently $150-200, next handheld with that price point could easily have bigger and better screen with much higher resolution and much stronger hardver, 5-6" display, ARM Cortex A-53 quad core, 2GB Ram, and suitable GPU.

Add to that very strong integration with Nintendo home console and probably playable home console games, you will have pretty popular dedicated handheld device with better third party support than 3DS had.

$150 is a bit too low IMO. 

The 2DS/cheaper 3DS have shown people really don't want to skimp on features just for a low price point, otherwise they should be outselling the 3DS XL, but people who do choose to buy a 3DS choose by majority to pick the most expensive model. 

You can't have "strong integration" with the console if you have such a weak portable, to have somewhat seamless play between the two home/portable you're going to need some decent grunt under the hood too. 

I'd say start at a launch price of $219-$229. Still cheap, still reasoable, only a stone's throw away from the current 3DS XL, but the extra $20-$30 really gives you a lot more leeway on GPU/RAM in specific. Having a strong launch lineup (Mario/Zelda at launch, DQXI?) is a must, not like the 3DS which had an awful launch lineup and having the launch closer to Christmas will ensure a good early sales. 

Then you can scale down in cost to $199.99, 7-10 months later fairly easily as manufacturing costs come down. 

Maybe $150 is a bit low, but I think anything above $199 is to high.

If handheld cost $219-$229, what price will be for home console in that case? Remember, Xbox One next year will probably have price point around $299, I dont think Nintendo aiming to have higher price for their home console than XboxOne/PS4.

I don't think hardware that I mentioned is weak for handheld, with that hardware I think they can easily have strong integration with home console.

I dont see higher price than $199 ($149-199) for handheld and higher price than $299 ($249-299) for home console, but if NX is some kind of hybrid device, i can see price around $250.



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Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:

$150 is a bit too low IMO. 

The 2DS/cheaper 3DS have shown people really don't want to skimp on features just for a low price point, otherwise they should be outselling the 3DS XL, but people who do choose to buy a 3DS choose by majority to pick the most expensive model. 

You can't have "strong integration" with the console if you have such a weak portable, to have somewhat seamless play between the two home/portable you're going to need some decent grunt under the hood too. 

I'd say start at a launch price of $219-$229. Still cheap, still reasoable, only a stone's throw away from the current 3DS XL, but the extra $20-$30 really gives you a lot more leeway on GPU/RAM in specific. Having a strong launch lineup (Mario/Zelda at launch, DQXI?) is a must, not like the 3DS which had an awful launch lineup and having the launch closer to Christmas will ensure a good early sales. 

Then you can scale down in cost to $199.99, 7-10 months later fairly easily as manufacturing costs come down. 

Maybe $150 is a bit low, but I think anything above $199 is to high.

If handheld cost $219-$229, what price will be for home console in that case? Remember, Xbox One next year will probably have price point around $299, I dont think Nintendo aiming to have higher price for their home console than XboxOne/PS4.

I don't think hardware that I mentioned is weak for handheld, with that hardware I think they can easily have strong integration with home console.

I dont see higher price than $199 ($149-199) for handheld and higher price than $299 ($249-299) for home console, but if NX is some kind of hybrid device, i can see price around $250.


The console variant doesn't have an LCD panel or battery (by far the most expensive components of a portable device), as such it could cost the same or even cheaper. There's a misunderstanding that the chipset is the most expensive thing in any hardware, when in fact that's usually not true. 

Case in point -- the PSTV costs less than a Vita, which you would expect it to as it's just the chipset and a PSU (power adaptor). 



Stefan51278 said:
forethought14 said:
NX Go! won't have the 4G (I doubt Nintendo will bother), nor will it have the same resolution (probably not that high, more like 540p). I'd say it'll be less powerful due to the fact that a $299.99+ Handheld will sell horribly for Nintendo. $199.99 max. I'd say it's possible that the NX Go! will have 32GB flash memory internal, not a whole lot, will be surprised if it had more. Considering the jumps in RAM from Nintendo Handheld to Handheld, if from DSi we went from 16MB to 128MB in 3DS, a same jump from New 3DS's 256MB would lead to 2GB of RAM for the NX Go. A Quad Core CPU is likely considering the New 3DS is a Quad Core, though anything modern in architecture will be a SIGNIFICANT leap in power from those ancient ARM11 cores. For GPU, I don't know. May not match Wii U in that department, don't know what architecture they'll be using for that. AMD GCN architecture is likely, the RX 2XX would be a good fit. RX 3XX seems too recent, but you'll never know. Since it'll be priced lower than this SteamBoy, it won't match it's RAW power.


The recent AMD RX 3XX series is just a rebrand of older graphic cards with some of them having more Ram, including cards from the AMD RX 2XX series.

I think the key in the hybrid-console-handheld-business is scaling your games for the different machines. PC Games are very good with scaling their requirements for a wide range of possible hardware-configurations, there are even auto-configuration-tools like Geforce Experience from nVidia. Steam-Machines are going to do the same and this Smach Zero will play most games on low settings.

You can see similar things for example on iOS where some games can run on hardware that is four years old, but the same games are shining on the last iPad. This good perfomance on a so transforming platform (doubling graphics-perfomance every year) is simpler to implement when there is a litte number of hardware configurations that a programmer can detect and test in a reasonable period of time time like one new iPhone/iPad every fall.

This could reduce costs of developement for games that are released for this one platform on multiple machines, but this fact doesn't imply that the home console has to sacrifice most of the perfomance because of the handheld. Create a good handheld with a low-power SoC from AMD, put 2 GB of Ram in the device and a 720p screen. Runs all new games from Nintendo, but with lower graphics-quality for 199.99$ launch-price.

The home console can have a chip with higher perfomance, a higher resolution (1080p) and higher graphics-quality with 4 or 8 GB of faster Ram for 299.99$. The difference between games on those two devices would be closer than what we have seen with Smash Bros. on 3DS and WiiU.

Factory-Costs would drop soon with the use of standard-parts and it would be possible to maintain attractive hardware-prices with making some money on every sold machine. When 2018 or 2019 arrives and 4K is the new gold-standard for TV's like FullHD is today, new games could implement a third graphics-tier, a new home console with 4K launches and a new handheld with 1080p-support. No game-drought, because the whole library of games would be compatible, older games without 4K-tier-graphics just would be upscaled.

This is the only way hybrid should work.

Yes, this seems very reasonable to me!



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I'd probably go with $229.99 launch MSRP with a limited edition Amiibo bundled with the hardware and an Amiibo/Skylanders type starter game pre-installed with the system. Popular Android apps available from day 1 through Nintendo eShop.

Launch software: Legend of Zelda NX, Diddy Kong Racing NX, Mario Maker 2.0, Dragon Quest XI, Amiibo Hub Game. 

Super Mario NX coming 2-3 months after launch to ensure no post-launch drought.

Drop New 3DS XL in price down to $139.99.

I think that would do well, it's still cheap and Nintendo can drop down to $199.99 within a year or less most likely without much fuss.



Soundwave said:


I'd probably go with $229.99 launch MSRP with a limited edition Amiibo bundled with the hardware and an Amiibo/Skylanders type starter game pre-installed with the system. Popular Android apps available from day 1 through Nintendo eShop.

Launch software: Legend of Zelda NX, Diddy Kong Racing NX, Mario Maker 2.0, Dragon Quest XI, Amiibo Hub Game. 

Super Mario NX coming 2-3 months after launch to ensure no post-launch drought.

Drop New 3DS XL in price down to $139.99.

I think that would do well, it's still cheap and Nintendo can drop down to $199.99 within a year or less most likely without much fuss.

I'd say launch at $199 for the handheld console and... $249-299 for the home console (I'm thinking there will be two different HW that shares the same games - probably how Rol described how cartridges will make a return again). An Amiibo bundle isn't a bad idea at all, or have two/three different kind of bundles with an amiibo and/or a game

Launch window titles: LoZ U/NX, Super Mario 3D, DQ XI, a game developed with amiibos in mind (I guess you were thinking of the same thing?)

I'm not sure if Diddy Kong Racing 2 is a great idea... That game might need a bit of an install base to sell well.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

bobgamez said:
Jumpin said:

The President of Nintendo US confirmed it was a home console. Nothing has been said about a handheld at all. Plus when it was announced in Japan they called in a "system" which only references home consoles in Japan, not handhelds.

He said they are working on their next home console, never mentioned nx. And a handheld is not a system? Lol

"We've also said that we are already hard at work on our next home console." - Reggie, President of Nintendo US.

He is referring to the Nintendo NX, what other project did you think he was referring to?



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