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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo NX vs Handheld Steam Machine (AKA Smach Zero - SteamBoy)

Jumpin on 12 August 2015
Miyamotoo said:
Jumpin said:
DanneSandin said:

So, apparently we're getting a portable Steam Machine next year with 4GB of RAM, a 720p touchscreen, HDMI output, Bluetooth, and Wifi for $299. How will this compare to Nintendo's next handheld? Which one will be more powerful? Which one will be most expansive?

MORE INFO:  Smach Zero features a 720p resolution 5 inch touchscreen display, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, HDMI output and 4G LTE connectivity with the PRO model.

The Steam-based handheld has an “AMD embedded G-Series SoC Steppe Eagle with Jaguar-based CPU and GCN-based Radeon graphics under the hood.” It also includes 4 GB of RAM and 32GB internal memory with room for external expansion. Battery life is yet to be confirmed.

What can we expect from NX (if it's a handlheld) with regards to this information? How powerful can it be? Extrapolate people!

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/260475/handheld-steam-machine-coming-next-year-for-299/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/11/smach-zero-steam-based-handheld-price-and-pre-sales-announced?watch


The NX is not a handheld. This has already been confirmed.

 

Basically nothing it's confirmed and we dont know nothing for sure except that NX will be revealed next year.

The President of Nintendo US confirmed it was a home console. Nothing has been said about a handheld at all. Plus when it was announced in Japan they called in a "system" which only references home consoles in Japan, not handhelds.



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Nuvendil on 12 August 2015
Conina said:
zorg1000 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
I think a comparison to Wii-U is more interesting. Same price but the Steam portable seems to be more powerfull and a real portable device.

That said some competition on the handheld market is always welcome, since i don't think Sony will ever release a traditional handheld again.


It actually costs more than Wii U, $299 is just for people who preorder it, the price will go up once it launches.

Yeah, and I would never preorder an unreviewed handheld... too much that can go wrong: battery life, weight, performance, bad drivers, bad display, faulty workmanship, the handheld case feels uncomfortable (sharp edges, cheap plastic, case gets too hot in use), sticks or buttons are bad positioned or aren't reliable...

Often even minor details tip the balance if a device is fun to use or not. I loved the idea of the Nvidia Shield handheld... up to the moment I held it in my own hands, the weight (3x compared to my Vita 2000) was the dealbreaker.

So which games can you play on that Steam handheld? It has to be a combination of SteamOS-compatible games with full controller-support (you don't want to connect keyboard or mouse to a handheld)... then we are down to 400 games: http://store.steampowered.com/search/?term=&sort_by=_ASC&os=linux&page=1#sort_by=Reviews_DESC&category1=998&category2=28&os=linux&page=1
Not bad, even if most of them are small indie games. Many of the most interesting games which are theoretically compatible will demand faster hardware than the handheld can deliver, even in 720p. And many of the good indie titles I can already play on my Vita... most of them for free thanks to my PS+ subscription.

Also has to run with the given specs.  So most of the big AAA games of the last few years are out.  And if you want to run with any kind of decent performance, the list gets shorter.  Ultimately, what will be this things Pokemon, Monster Hunter, or Youkai?  That game that makes people say "I *need* this handheld.  Ultimately, I don't see one.  The main selling point is access to the Steam Library but a very, very sizable part of that library is missing.  So why spend over $300 on this thing?



bobgamez on 12 August 2015
Jumpin said:
Miyamotoo said:
Jumpin said:
DanneSandin said:

So, apparently we're getting a portable Steam Machine next year with 4GB of RAM, a 720p touchscreen, HDMI output, Bluetooth, and Wifi for $299. How will this compare to Nintendo's next handheld? Which one will be more powerful? Which one will be most expansive?

MORE INFO:  Smach Zero features a 720p resolution 5 inch touchscreen display, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, HDMI output and 4G LTE connectivity with the PRO model.

The Steam-based handheld has an “AMD embedded G-Series SoC Steppe Eagle with Jaguar-based CPU and GCN-based Radeon graphics under the hood.” It also includes 4 GB of RAM and 32GB internal memory with room for external expansion. Battery life is yet to be confirmed.

What can we expect from NX (if it's a handlheld) with regards to this information? How powerful can it be? Extrapolate people!

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/260475/handheld-steam-machine-coming-next-year-for-299/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/11/smach-zero-steam-based-handheld-price-and-pre-sales-announced?watch


The NX is not a handheld. This has already been confirmed.

 

Basically nothing it's confirmed and we dont know nothing for sure except that NX will be revealed next year.

The President of Nintendo US confirmed it was a home console. Nothing has been said about a handheld at all. Plus when it was announced in Japan they called in a "system" which only references home consoles in Japan, not handhelds.

He said they are working on their next home console, never mentioned nx. And a handheld is not a system? Lol



LipeJJ on 12 August 2015

Next Nintendo Handheld will probably be qHD (560p), with 2GB of RAM and will sale for $199.



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

jonathanalis on 12 August 2015

nintendo wont release a 300$ handheld.
so, NX portable will be less powerfull too.
But a good question is if nintendo will keep the dual screen setup.
If they chose a single screen, i cant see they passing from 640p. Or 2 480p screens..

About sales, easy win for NX due pokemon, mario kart, monster hunter, animal crossing. those games sell better on portables than steam AAAs.



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tsogud on 12 August 2015

I'd actually buy this if it was cheaper.

But I'd still buy NX first



 

Game_God on 12 August 2015
Stefan51278 said:
forethought14 said:
NX Go! won't have the 4G (I doubt Nintendo will bother), nor will it have the same resolution (probably not that high, more like 540p). I'd say it'll be less powerful due to the fact that a $299.99+ Handheld will sell horribly for Nintendo. $199.99 max. I'd say it's possible that the NX Go! will have 32GB flash memory internal, not a whole lot, will be surprised if it had more. Considering the jumps in RAM from Nintendo Handheld to Handheld, if from DSi we went from 16MB to 128MB in 3DS, a same jump from New 3DS's 256MB would lead to 2GB of RAM for the NX Go. A Quad Core CPU is likely considering the New 3DS is a Quad Core, though anything modern in architecture will be a SIGNIFICANT leap in power from those ancient ARM11 cores. For GPU, I don't know. May not match Wii U in that department, don't know what architecture they'll be using for that. AMD GCN architecture is likely, the RX 2XX would be a good fit. RX 3XX seems too recent, but you'll never know. Since it'll be priced lower than this SteamBoy, it won't match it's RAW power.


The recent AMD RX 3XX series is just a rebrand of older graphic cards with some of them having more Ram, including cards from the AMD RX 2XX series.

I think the key in the hybrid-console-handheld-business is scaling your games for the different machines. PC Games are very good with scaling their requirements for a wide range of possible hardware-configurations, there are even auto-configuration-tools like Geforce Experience from nVidia. Steam-Machines are going to do the same and this Smach Zero will play most games on low settings.

You can see similar things for example on iOS where some games can run on hardware that is four years old, but the same games are shining on the last iPad. This good perfomance on a so transforming platform (doubling graphics-perfomance every year) is simpler to implement when there is a litte number of hardware configurations that a programmer can detect and test in a reasonable period of time time like one new iPhone/iPad every fall.

This could reduce costs of developement for games that are released for this one platform on multiple machines, but this fact doesn't imply that the home console has to sacrifice most of the perfomance because of the handheld. Create a good handheld with a low-power SoC from AMD, put 2 GB of Ram in the device and a 720p screen. Runs all new games from Nintendo, but with lower graphics-quality for 199.99$ launch-price.

The home console can have a chip with higher perfomance, a higher resolution (1080p) and higher graphics-quality with 4 or 8 GB of faster Ram for 299.99$. The difference between games on those two devices would be closer than what we have seen with Smash Bros. on 3DS and WiiU.

Factory-Costs would drop soon with the use of standard-parts and it would be possible to maintain attractive hardware-prices with making some money on every sold machine. When 2018 or 2019 arrives and 4K is the new gold-standard for TV's like FullHD is today, new games could implement a third graphics-tier, a new home console with 4K launches and a new handheld with 1080p-support. No game-drought, because the whole library of games would be compatible, older games without 4K-tier-graphics just would be upscaled.

This is the only way hybrid should work.


I agree with everything you wrote, I hope Nintendo does this kind of hybrid, where you can use your NX Go/Boy as a controller for the home NX, like a Wii U Gamepad.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n29CicBxZuw

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Frogger on 12 August 2015
Game_God said:

I agree with everything you wrote, I hope Nintendo does this kind of hybrid, where you can use your NX Go/Boy as a controller for the home NX, like a Wii U Gamepad.


The handheld-controller idea isn't happening. It'll be dual screen for the handheld and a gamepad for the console just like this generation. Everything else he said is spot on, though.

I also agree with another user. 4G on the handheld is pretty much guaranteed. I'll just be too dependant on online not to have it. Wifi won't be enough. They'll likely find a way to make it "free" though, like a small, invisable, data tax on all game purchases.



Miyamotoo on 13 August 2015
bobgamez said:
Jumpin said:

The President of Nintendo US confirmed it was a home console. Nothing has been said about a handheld at all. Plus when it was announced in Japan they called in a "system" which only references home consoles in Japan, not handhelds.

He said they are working on their next home console, never mentioned nx. And a handheld is not a system? Lol

Yup, this is a true.



Miyamotoo on 13 August 2015
Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:
Miyamotoo said:
Soundwave said:

Steamboy is sold at a large profit margin though because the manufacturer doesn't make money off games, and Nintendo is also a much larger vendor that can order parts in huge volume (millions) so they get better pricing on parts.

That said I don't think it would be the worst idea in the world if Nintendo went with a slightly higher price point this time around ... say $219.99 or $229.99 at launch.

As long as they have strong games at launch this time around (Mario, Zelda, Dragon Quest XI, ahem) and launch closer to the holidays, I don't think they'll have the same problems the 3DS did.

That extra $20-$30 on hardware can allow for a lot more breathing room with RAM, GPU power, battery size, screen quality, etc.

Then maybe 8-12 months post-launch once the early adopters have bought theirs, then you drop the price to $199.99, by this time manufacturing costs should be dropping.

Also a 720p screen probably is actually cheaper than a 540p screen. No one really asks for qhd displays (540p), 720p displays are still mass produced at least at a decent clip. Don't assume better tech = more expensive all the time. If you're ordering weird exotic parts (like a LCD display with a resolution no one else but you ask for), you will pay more.

Its not only about cost of screen, screen with higher resolution requires stronger hardware, stronger hardware requires stronger battery, stronger hardware and stronger battery affects on higher price of device.


Not neccessarily, just because the screen is 1280x720, doesn't mean every game has to run at that resolution. I'd bet 90% of people probably can't tell which Vita games run at non-native resolutions (ditto for iPad or Android games). 

Heavy duty 3D games like say a port of Final Fantasy XV could run at 960x540 .... a game like Mario Maker or Star Fox or a 2D Zelda or a Kirby game could run fine at 1280x720. No one but people who sit on message boards counting resolution pixels would ever probably know. 

720p screen are dirt cheap these days, even like $130 kids tablets have screens at that res today, let alone fall 2016. 

Nintendo may actually have to pay *more* for a 960x540 screen simply because no one in their right mind orders screens at that resolution any more, so a supplier would basically have only Nintendo ordering that particular type of panel ... which again is part and parcel why the Wii U is so poorly designed ... lots of propietary hardware demands that aren't even great on performance. 

Offcourse, but some games will certanly work in 1280x720 and they will need stronger hardware for that resolution than for 960x540.

540p screen maybe would be more expensive than 720p, but hardware required for 540p would be certainly cheaper than hardware required for 720p.


The GPU in a $200 iPod Touch (the Apple A8) can run games at 1280x720 in its sleep, and that's a product sold at a massive Apple mark up. 

I think you're underestimating where portable tech is today, running many of the types of games that Nintendo makes at 720p on a portable would be easy to do even on a sub-$250 budget by fall 2016. It's easy enough even today to be honest. 

I don't underestimating anything, my point is that lower resolution display means lower price of device itself, because resolution of display effects on power of CPU, RAM, GPU and battery. And in era of cheap smartphones that can play almost any game, Nintendo need to offer lower price point for their handheld, $150-199.

That said, I would love 720p display, it much stronger standard than 540p, it allow Nintendo to easy port Wii U games or some other benefits...but I dont think Nintendo will go for 720p display.

Of Course, we dont know anything for sure, this just is assuming that Nintendo will release again separate handheld and home consoles, but maybe we will get some kind of hybrid device with stronger specs.