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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy 7 remake's combat will have "dramatic changes"

 

Are you excited to see the combat system change?

Yes 112 28.94%
 
I will wait and see 130 33.59%
 
No 145 37.47%
 
Total:387

Why would anyone ask something they truly love to be made something else. "I love FF7, please Square for 18 years I have hoped you would make it something else!!". Thinking like that don't make sense, especially when we all know FF7R is finally made thanks to years of vocal begging around the world.



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-Downtown Alanya Kebab magazine issue no.198

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fatslob-:O said:
sc94597 said:

Random encounters =/= turn based. Anyway an action game is not a substitute for a strategy game. I don't often hear people say chess is so archaic we should play football instead, for example. 

Appealing to people who aren't fans of a certain playstyle has the issue of possibly alienating those who enjoyed said playstyle. Both turnbased and real time RPGs have their niches to target even today .

@Bold No but it's certainly an annoying common trait amongst them ...

Who's to say that an action game can't have some strategy in it. Take a look at From Software RPGs and there are turn-based RPGs out there that are practically devoid of strategy too ... 

Nobody said an action game doesn't have strategy in it, but the focus is action. Unlike a strategy game - which essentially most JRPGs are.

Also almost every JRPG that is turn-based these days have on-screen encounters (Persona/SMT/Dragon Quest) or allow you to adjust random encounter frequency (Bravely Default.) This is no different from action-rpgs like Tales of.



WC4Life said:
Why would anyone ask something they truly love to be made something else. "I love FF7, please Square for 18 years I have hoped you would make it something else!!". Thinking like that don't make sense, especially when we all know FF7R is finally made thanks to years of vocal begging around the world.

Everyone that was asking for a Remake was of course asking for it to be made into something else, if you didn't want it to change then you'd just stick with the original. Better graphics, voice acting, free camera 3rd person view and no more random encounters are all things that I'd say most people were expecting and wanting from the Remake, but making changes to the combat system (changes that we don't know what they'll look like) is now somehow offlimit? That's what doesn't make sense to me.



HollyGamer said:

It would look stupid if they just use ATB with realistic graphic, if they try to bring the action from Advent Children then they need to make a little bit of action

See, that I'd be fine with. The realistic graphics (I presume it will still hold some anime style to it) is fine because they can make attacks and magic look as cool as they want, it can even be a free flowing battle field (you'd lose the distance thing however) but still have it all as turn based. So you press 'X' to make Cloud attack, while he's attacking (flash graphics and everything) and you are waiting for his next turn, you are getting Tifa to cast Mighty Guard, then Barrett selecting Titan summon. X-2s battle field wasn't just 2 lines of enemies standing opposite each other, characters moved around, close combat 'dresses' actually stood closer to opponents and you could chain attacks too, be it was still turn based and worked well. (Shame the rest of the game was so cheesy).



Hmm, pie.

I feel we should wait and see what chanages are made before we make any conclustions. I would add that the "turn based battle system" is out dated now. I would like to see a faster smooth system. I have a feeling it would be along the style of Final Fantasy 15. 



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The Fury said:
HollyGamer said:

It would look stupid if they just use ATB with realistic graphic, if they try to bring the action from Advent Children then they need to make a little bit of action

See, that I'd be fine with. The realistic graphics (I presume it will still hold some anime style to it) is fine because they can make attacks and magic look as cool as they want, it can even be a free flowing battle field (you'd lose the distance thing however) but still have it all as turn based. So you press 'X' to make Cloud attack, while he's attacking (flash graphics and everything) and you are waiting for his next turn, you are getting Tifa to cast Mighty Guard, then Barrett selecting Titan summon. X-2s battle field wasn't just 2 lines of enemies standing opposite each other, characters moved around, close combat 'dresses' actually stood closer to opponents and you could chain attacks too, be it was still turn based and worked well. (Shame the rest of the game was so cheesy).

That's why they need to revamp the old ATB, they don't need to change into action just make it more flexible and stylish maybe ad an element like QTE



DerNebel said:
WC4Life said:
Why would anyone ask something they truly love to be made something else. "I love FF7, please Square for 18 years I have hoped you would make it something else!!". Thinking like that don't make sense, especially when we all know FF7R is finally made thanks to years of vocal begging around the world.

Everyone that was asking for a Remake was of course asking for it to be made into something else, if you didn't want it to change then you'd just stick with the original. Better graphics, voice acting, free camera 3rd person view and no more random encounters are all things that I'd say most people were expecting and wanting from the Remake, but making changes to the combat system (changes that we don't know what they'll look like) is now somehow offlimit? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

You gotta keep in mind why the game appealed to the person in the first place. For me, it was a combinaison of the story, the characters, the music and the gameplay. The visuals never bothered me but they never were a big selling point for me.

It's only natural that when envisionning the perfect remake my desire is for the things that I love about this game to remain as true as possible to the original. Better music quality? Bring it on! Story told through voice acting? Of course, it'll enhance the telling of the tale. Improved gameplay? Sure, there's some tweaking that could be done. Dramatically changed gameplay? WAIT A MINUTE! I love FFVII's gameplay, I want it improved not changed completely!

So that's my thought process. I'm still not writing off the remake yet but I'm nervous about it. Your own reasons for liking FFVII might differ from mine and the original's gameplay might not rank high on your list which is why to you "dramatic changes" to the combat isn't a big deal or might even be welcomed.

To illustrate my point further, let's take the music. Nobuo Uematsu's score is one of my favorite video game soundtrack ever so I'll be thrilled to play the game with an updated orchestral soundtrack but if it was announced that FFVII's music would get "dramatical changes" I'd be very pissed.



Signature goes here!

The sentiment that turn-based is out dated is a cheap cop-out for saying "I don't like it!" -same argument being made by people who don't want it action based. Anyway, looking back at his wording I doubt the changes will be quite as dramatic as he says it will, as this is a translation and its possible this was the closest english equivalent word to whatever he meant, not to say he wasn't accurate but is always a possibility.

In hindsight from my original post I very much doubt they'll say "fuck it" and turn it into one of the dime a dozen ARPGs that flood the market now. That being said, I do think there will be SOME action in it and it'd be ridiculous to think otherwise. The game won't be what you remembered from 1997 but it also won't be FF15.

How this game will actually function is anyone's guess and arguing which of the imaginary options exist. Because both sides are taking everything to absolute extremes. No, older fans, they won't make it into a hack-n-slash super action-y Kingdom Hearts wannabe... and no, fans who want change, the game won't be a super old school JRPG with random encounters and all the other things you oh-so-hate about anything in RPGs prior to 2007. It'll be, like he said, different but not unrecognizable.



fatslob-:O said:
Nem said:

You can control more than one character, you can customise your materia to modify your attack, you can use magics and skills without having the characters automatically spam them, you have to manage your mp and select the best spells for any given situation, you have a multitude of on use summons that dont despawn your party and instead just do their attacks. I do not recall limit breaks on FF13... FF7 had multiple per character, magics would power up, clever combinations could power them up even further... Knights of the effin round! Its a complete different scale and depth where you have control over everything and you manage your resources. That is the complete opposite of FFXIII.

This fixation with menu's like its a terrible thing. If you map attack, magic, guard and item to the face buttons what do you get? The controls of an action game! Fantastic! A menu is oh so scary! Just stylise it like Persona does. Problem solved. 

1. I already know you can control more than one character in FFVII hence "AI controlled party members" ...

2. You can customize attacks with your weapons special abilities in FFXIII instead and other mainline FF games feature it too ...

3. Don't get your point about "been able to use magic and skills without having characters spamming them". It's either you have magic/skill or you don't so I don't see how this point is any different from "AI controlled party members" ... 

4. Summons despawning party members started with FFX and that game does summons the BEST since it adds a whole lot of depth to gameplay ...

5. Limit Breaks are just DIFFERENT in FFXIII. Instead of getting unique moves you just have summons special to each character and abilities known as "Techniques" ...

6. You certainly have to manage your MP in FFVII but that simply isn't possible with FFXIII's enemy design since their a lot harder and you REALLY need MP for especially drawn out long boss fights or regular battles in the last quarter of the game. So while there is less complexity when it comes to magic, there's more complexity to be had in battles ... 

It gets even more complex when introducing a staggering and command stacking too so it's not like FFXIII combat system is devoid of ANY complexity ...

It's not only the menu that's annoying. The idea of taking "turns" is just stupid in general when combat is more natural in realtime and fighting is ALL about opportunistic chances to gain an upper hand against an enemy. You could dodge/guard attacks instead of taking them head on if you had an option to. Go find some cover to use items to restore yourself. Almost always have a chance to do sneak attacks provided your character specialized in rogue like abilities. More flexibility to use gameplay on environments. There's just too many limitations for turn-based combat to be introduced to all sorts of new and dynamic gameplay elements when an action based combat could remove them. So what if you have to do these things in realtime plus it's not like an action based combat is imposing limits to do the things that you would in a turn based system ...

It just makes sooo much more sense for Final Fantasy to be an ARPG when the battles are pretty upfront ...


I think you went on a tangent there. This isnt about the FF series, its about FF7. You said its combat system was similar to XIII and i disagreed.

But yeah... again this idea that taking turns is "stupid". I guess chess is stupid, i guess risk is stupid, checkers are stupid, every board or card game is stupid. Why? Because it doesnt fit your preconception of everything needing to be the same? Games are about fun, not about realism, something that seems to be forgotten these days. Strategy games exist, civilization exists and isnt "stupid" for using turns. Tactics games exist and use turns and they arent "stupid". JRPG's with turn based have existed for the longest time and they aren't "stupid".

What is "stupid" is the concept that every game must conform to reality and not be its own thing. There are many limitations to ARPG's aswell, beeing the main that you can only control one character at a time. This disconnects you from the rest of the cast alot more. Also, i'm sure they could use the envyronment aswell in ATB if they wanted. There is a defend option that can be used for the same purpose. It can just as easily be programmed for the character to run behing cover. Is it that important that you manually move your character there?

If we go by this logic, every game must be an action game. Things would get boring faster than they already do. FF7 does not represent the future of the FF series. It represents the past. I don't understand the urge to gut it like a fish and make it something its not.



StarOcean said:
The sentiment that turn-based is out dated is a cheap cop-out for saying "I don't like it!" -same argument being made by people who don't want it action based. Anyway, looking back at his wording I doubt the changes will be quite as dramatic as he says it will, as this is a translation and its possible this was the closest english equivalent word to whatever he meant, not to say he wasn't accurate but is always a possibility.

In hindsight from my original post I very much doubt they'll say "fuck it" and turn it into one of the dime a dozen ARPGs that flood the market now. That being said, I do think there will be SOME action in it and it'd be ridiculous to think otherwise. The game won't be what you remembered from 1997 but it also won't be FF15.

How this game will actually function is anyone's guess and arguing which of the imaginary options exist. Because both sides are taking everything to absolute extremes. No, older fans, they won't make it into a hack-n-slash super action-y Kingdom Hearts wannabe... and no, fans who want change, the game won't be a super old school JRPG with random encounters and all the other things you oh-so-hate about anything in RPGs prior to 2007. It'll be, like he said, different but not unrecognizable.

If i can a write a good gramar and better at wording i would have write the same thing like you.