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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Final Fantasy 7 remake's combat will have "dramatic changes"

 

Are you excited to see the combat system change?

Yes 112 28.94%
 
I will wait and see 130 33.59%
 
No 145 37.47%
 
Total:387
Ka-pi96 said:
Teeqoz said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Where have you heard that? From what I've heard of it Square/Sony forced him out after the Final Fantasy movie flopped, hence why to this day he still refuses to have anything to do with Sony.


Hehe, not exactly a source, but Mega64

He was forced out after the FF movie floped, but who's to say he didn't want to leave before that?

You're not referring to the hip hop mega64 video are you?


Which one is that? I'm talking about a video called "Sakaguchi's Final Fantasy". Go check it out, it's kinda fun



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The Fury said:

Why? I'm talking in the context of FF here, not ARPGs vs JRPGs here. I mean FF games, where turn based (even if some weren't great version of it) worked for this game since the 1980s. Why does it suddenly not work?

Taking your point, it also makes sense to me that Gears of War could be a Strategy RPG like X-com but they didn't make it like that and shock, it was still good. Yet, look at how well X-com Enemy Unknown did compare to X-com Declassified. That 'action' really did translate well, right?

Why not ? It permits new types of gameplay in RPGs that could revitalize the franchise ...

As for why it doesn't work you could ask that very same questions to the vocal critics of FFXIII ...

Some genres are harder to modify than others and pure strategy games don't always intermix well with action based combat but for RPGs it's a pretty great fit when you look at recent titles like DA:I, Bloodborne, and The Witcher 3 so FF should definitely follow suit too when it has the favourable conditions to make that switch ... 



Ka-pi96 said:

Sakaguchi was still the producer of it, and it's surely no coincidence that Square's games have massively declined in quality since he left.

Sakaguchi is just one person ... 

You need a TEAM to make games, NOT an idolized god ... 

A producers role is on the legal and business side. The large majority of the games vision comes from none other than the director and designers ... 

Might I ask how he would be any better for Square when his glory was long passed ago to making mobile games ? 

At least Hideki Kamiya is still making AAA games even though I dislike his attitude ...



fatslob-:O said:

Why not ? It permits new types of gameplay in RPGs that could revitalize the franchise ...

As for why it doesn't work you could ask that very same questions to the vocal critics of FFXIII ...

Some genres are harder to modify than others and pure strategy games don't always intermix well with action based combat but for RPGs it's a pretty great fit when you look at recent titles like DA:I, Bloodborne, and The Witcher 3 so FF should definitely follow suit too when it has the favourable conditions to make that switch ... 

The reason why not is because FF shouldn't be like other games, it should be like FF. I don't like Dragon Age because it's like FF, I like it because it's Dragon Age, and I still think DA:O is the best, it has the least button mashy combat of all 3.

It's the idea that they have to modify it that I don't get. FF combat works now just as well as it did then. The main difference is we aren't getting new FF games with the same gameplay as 3-9, we are getting weird variations. FF13 didn't work because they tried to do too many things, if they slowed the combat down, allowed us to actually control all characters and do battle strategically, it might have gotten a lot of praise, AutoAttack included.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:


Many of us want graphical improvements, being able to wander around an interactive Midgar or full 3d environments but in order for it to feel and be like FF7 it would have to have the same gameplay, else what is it? FF games are like FF games because of the gameplay, not the story. You could put that exact same story, characters and setting in any gameplay style but we didn't like it for that we liked it because it was FF. Would you play FF7 remake if it looked and played like Skyrim?

That's exactly what I'm talking about, people are immediately assuming the worst, who in the world is talking about making it like Skyrim? And the remake does not need to have the exact same gameplay to feel like FF7 because FF games are not like FF games because of one set specific type of gameplay, if that was the case then FF combat wouldn't have been undergoing changes for ages, which has always been pretty much accepted up until FF XIII.

The game doesn't come out until 2017 at best and Final Fantasy on console in 2017 does not have to be 2 groups standing in front of each other and taking turns hitting each other until one group is dead and if SE are looking to modernize that, then I say let them take a shot at it.

But instead of keeping an open mind you have people saying things like "It's going to have different combat? Then I'm not going to buy it. Fuck you SE for ruining this" without knowing literally anything about how this is going to be changed and that is mindboggling to me.





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Ka-pi96 said:

Exactly. If you like other games then play those other games instead. Every game being identical would just be so boring.

So better make the game play identical to how it did in 1997.



The Fury said:

The reason why not is because FF shouldn't be like other games, it should be like FF. I don't like Dragon Age because it's like FF, I like it because it's Dragon Age, and I still think DA:O is the best, it has the least button mashy combat of all 3.

It's the idea that they have to modify it that I don't get. FF combat works now just as well as it did then. The main difference is we aren't getting new FF games with the same gameplay as 3-9, we are getting weird variations. FF13 didn't work because they tried to do too many things, if they slowed the combat down, allowed us to actually control all characters and do battle strategically, it might have gotten a lot of praise, AutoAttack included.

That doesn't mean you can't take ideas from other games and improve on it ... 

If FF games featured very little combat tweeks the franchise would stagnate. I thought FFX had the best combat and that game had some fair changes compared to FFVII, VIII, or IX and SE got new fans in the end too ... 

Even though you couldn't control all the characters in battle the critics still outright crapped on EVERYTHING about it and the only one that really deviated was FFXII but even FFXIII fixed a few of it's problems and it shows when it outsold FFXII ... 

If FFXV gets new fans to maintain it's franchise then why shouldn't it go through with the changes ? It's good for a franchise to keep finding new customers even though it might alienate the old fans. The gamers that played Final Fantasy 20 years ago are not the same ones from today ... 

Tomb Raider found some success in trying to be more like Uncharted but why can't SE take some bold moves to do the same for FF ? 



Ka-pi96 said:

Money. He doesn't have the money to make a AAA game. When he got funding from Microsoft/Nintendo he was still able to make very good games and considering the systems they were on they were relatively successful as well. Kamiya is still able to make AAA games because he is willing to whore himself out to anyone as long as they fund his game.

Money shouldn't be an issue when publishers think your doing a good job ...

Despite the fact that he left Square, it's ironic how FFXIII got a better metascore than Lost Odyssey or The Last Story ...

Wouldn't that mean he'd lower the quality of SE's games even further ? 



DerNebel said:

That's exactly what I'm talking about, people are immediately assuming the worst, who in the world is talking about making it like Skyrim? And the remake does not need to have the exact same gameplay to feel like FF7 because FF games are not like FF games because of one set specific type of gameplay, if that was the case then FF combat wouldn't have been undergoing changes for ages, which has always been pretty much accepted up until FF XIII.

The game doesn't come out until 2017 at best and Final Fantasy on console in 2017 does not have to be 2 groups standing in front of each other and taking turns hitting each other until one group is dead and if SE are looking to modernize that, then I say let them take a shot at it.

But instead of keeping an open mind you have people saying things like "It's going to have different combat? Then I'm not going to buy it. Fuck you SE for ruining this" without knowing literally anything about how this is going to be changed and that is mindboggling to me.

Okay, Skyrim was an extreme exageration. Let's change that shall we and say Kingdom Hearts (and in turn FF15), people mention ARPG, there is no finer ARPG made buy the Japanese in my view. You know, Kingdom Hearts is bloody great, Disney characters running around fighting along side anime like characters. Brilliant. Free flowing action combat is great in it but that's Kingdom Hearts gameplay. People are actually saying they would prefer if FF7 was more like this but I'm saying why? You have Kingdom Hearts (and FF15) for that. 

I am open minded but not in a bloody remake. What's the point of remaking it if it's not got the same gameplay? the essential part of games. FF15 is coming out with it's flashy new ARPG style, I'm willing to buy that and give it a shot (because of KH of all things) but the idea of FF7 remake not having the same basic gameplay is odd. 

fatslob-:O said:

That doesn't mean you can't take ideas from other games and improve on it ... 

If FF games featured very little combat tweeks the franchise would stagnate. I thought FFX had the best combat and that game had some fair changes compared to FFVII, VIII, or IX and SE got new fans in the end too ... 

Even though you couldn't control all the characters in battle the critics still outright crapped on EVERYTHING about it and the only one that really deviated was FFXII but even FFXIII fixed a few of it's problems and it shows when it outsold FFXII ... 

If FFXV gets new fans to maintain it's franchise then why shouldn't it go through with the changes ? It's good for a franchise to keep finding new customers even though it might alienate the old fans. The gamers that played Final Fantasy 20 years ago are not the same ones from today ... 

Tomb Raider found some success in trying to be more like Uncharted but why can't SE take some bold moves to do the same for FF ? 

The FF games didn't stagnate in the SNES and PS1 years. The gameplay was basically the same but each itteration the way magic worked differed, abilities differed, summons differed, story as well. These things make it not stagnate and create a new game each time keeping the fundermental FF gameplay mechanics in place.

When in FFX could you not control all characters? Are you talking the one moment with Seymore joined your party, I personally prefered more traditional ATB in FFX-2 over FFX but still.

FF15 and beyond can go through changes, might lose a few fans but they can make changes. It's the future of the series after all, FF7 isn't the future, it's the past and people love FF7 not some dodgy FF7 - KH edition.

And the fact FF13 got more sales that FF12 is sad, FF12, even without FF contained arenas was a fantastic game, far superior to FF13.

Uncharted's last entry sold over 6 million on 1 platform, new Tomb Raider sold around just under 6mil on 5.  It was a success but that format of gameplay was Tomb Raider updating and adapting it's gameplay to replicate the success of what was at the time the market leader. FF is the market leader in JRPGs, why is it updating? Other games should be making themselves like FF.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
DerNebel said:

That's exactly what I'm talking about, people are immediately assuming the worst, who in the world is talking about making it like Skyrim? And the remake does not need to have the exact same gameplay to feel like FF7 because FF games are not like FF games because of one set specific type of gameplay, if that was the case then FF combat wouldn't have been undergoing changes for ages, which has always been pretty much accepted up until FF XIII.

The game doesn't come out until 2017 at best and Final Fantasy on console in 2017 does not have to be 2 groups standing in front of each other and taking turns hitting each other until one group is dead and if SE are looking to modernize that, then I say let them take a shot at it.

But instead of keeping an open mind you have people saying things like "It's going to have different combat? Then I'm not going to buy it. Fuck you SE for ruining this" without knowing literally anything about how this is going to be changed and that is mindboggling to me.

Okay, Skyrim was an extreme exageration. Let's change that shall we and say Kingdom Hearts (and in turn FF15), people mention ARPG, there is no finer ARPG made buy the Japanese in my view. You know, Kingdom Hearts is bloody great, Disney characters running around fighting along side anime like characters. Brilliant. Free flowing action combat is great in it but that's Kingdom Hearts gameplay. People are actually saying they would prefer if FF7 was more like this but I'm saying why? You have Kingdom Hearts (and FF15) for that. 

I am open minded but not in a bloody remake. What's the point of remaking it if it's not got the same gameplay? the essential part of games. FF15 is coming out with it's flashy new ARPG style, I'm willing to buy that and give it a shot (because of KH of all things) but the idea of FF7 remake not having the same basic gameplay is odd. 

Updating the game for the modern market, remaking something has never strictly been about just making it look new and shiny.

Also Nomura hasn't even said ARPG, that's again just what people jumped to without any information on how things will actually change.