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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Street Fighter and Smash Dominates EVO 2015

tbone51 on 02 July 2015
ethomaz said:

Skullwaker said:

Have you played Smash Wii U extensively?

No but you don't need to play extensively lol

It is possible Melee will continue on EVO for years yeat and Wii U not.

To be fair most entrants for Wii U than Melee is some kind surprise but I know most guys didn't have or can buy a Gamecube today... Wii U is easy to get into.

WiiU easy getting into =/= make it worse. I play both competitively including Project M. SSBM will always be more hardcore and harder to get into because of its glitchy mechanics (wavedash/etc), but that doesn't make wiiu version some non competitive fighter. SSBU is better than melee for alot of reasons.

Both are here to stay, the only franchise that will do so (have 2 games) in major fighting tournaments.



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Cloudman on 02 July 2015
ethomaz said:
Cloudman said:
Wow, there are a lot of SF and Smash Bros fans... Like, jeez... o_O

To be fair they are better and more balanced games than others... Melee for example is the best Smash ever created.

I'm surprised MKX is so high.


I feel that SF and Smash are the more popular and broader fighting games, while the ones below are the more niche ones, perhaps due to style of play, or the artisitic style. I would consider the anime styled ones to be niche, as not everyone is fond of those kinds of games. KI... I don`t know how to explain that one though.



 

              

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tbone51 on 02 July 2015
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
ewwww. melee.

idc just MOVE ON.

 

Out of curiosity, why is it that people like you seem to be bothered by Melee's growing presence in the competitive scene?

 

Can't handle the hype?



I DONT get it either, especially when both games are at the peak right now (well more Melee). The only thing i hate is Melee fanboys wanting SSBU to go down.

Why when clearly both can co exist? Especially giving that it makes the brand (SSB) more viable in the fighting community?!



tbone51 on 02 July 2015
ethomaz said:

psychicscubadiver said:

I can't speak for that guy, but that's certainly the case for me. I actually like Melee better (despite not being good enough tozbe competitive), but the way the Melee community treats new Smash games and their superior attitude keeps me from associating with them.

It is not a community fault at all...

It was a Nintendo fault that didn't make the next Smash balanced and good like Meele... the sequel games were good but not at the same competition level of Meele and they had some balances flaws too.


No offense but you just proved you cant talk about SSB4, especially when its by far the most balanced game in the franchise and its said to be one of the best balanced fighters overall made (by unbiased players)



Normchacho on 02 July 2015
Skullwaker said:
ethomaz said:
No but you don't need to play extensively lol

It is possible Melee will continue on EVO for years yeat and Wii U not.

To be fair most entrants for Wii U than Melee is some kind surprise but I know most guys didn't have or can buy a Gamecube today... Wii U is easy to get into.

This is all I needed.


I've played every smash extensively, and I really like the new game but Melee is the better tournament game.



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Kotastic on 02 July 2015
mZuzek said:
Kotastic said:

30 viable characters? Please. Link me one national tournament where a character other than Sheik or Diddy Kong won. Maybe there's 5 other characters that can potentiallly take it, but everyone below just gets overshadowed.

Well you're making things really hard, because the undisputed best played in the world, who also happens to play in most big tournaments, has been known to be a top tier whore since forever. Just because a game has a top tier character though, that doesn't mean that's the only viable one. I'm talking actual potential here, and in Smash 4, most characters have competitive potential. Hell look at CEO just a few days ago, ESAM won a game in Top 8 with Samus.

If you want me to just list everyone, then well, whatever, let's go.

Viable characters in Melee: Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Peach, , Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon (maybe), Samus (maybe), Yoshi (maybe).

Viable characters in Smash 4: Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Rosalina & Luma, Wario, Diddy Kong, Sheik, Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Robin, Duck Hunt, King Dedede, Fox, Pikachu, Lucario, Greninja, ROB, Ness, Captain Falcon, Villager, Olimar, Shulk, Dark Pit, Pac-Man, Sonic, Lucas, Roy, Ryu, Mii Brawler. MAYBES (based on potential and/or actual tournament representation): Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Mr. Game & Watch, Little Mac, Link, Samus, Palutena, Marth, Ike, Kirby, Meta Knight, Falco, Jigglypuff, Wii Fit Trainer, Dr. Mario, Mega Man.

Yeah, I guess it would be way easier and faster to make a list of the not viable characters in Smash 4. Hell even some of the ones I didn't mention there (like Charizard) I believe have unexplored potential and are decent characters. Obviously tiers will always be a thing, and most matches at the end of big tournaments will focus on top tier characters, but it's not like Melee where you basically don't win if you don't play Fox, Falco, Marth or Sheik.

Esam only won with Samus because he specifically uses Samus for the Luigi MU. He switched out because he knows he would get destroyed badly with Fox. And probably most importantly because of character unfamiliarity, and Larry probably would've adapted if Esam continued to stay Samus.

lol i'm sorry but the bold I listed above has NO chance of ever winning a national, let alone a 100+ people local tournament. Prove me wrong otherwise. Also key word: winning.

The rest has a VERY slim chance of winning against the odds of Luigi, Rosalina, Diddy Kong, Sheik, ZSS, Captain Falcon, Ness, and Sonic. ~The same amount of top tiers for Melee (arguable here whether IC should be considered top tier anymore). The only reason they would win is due to MU unfamiliarity. The pools in CEO says enough.

As for Zero, he still stuck with his guns with Diddy with the first nerf and he still wins even with the second nerf. He had to learn an entirely new character with Sheik and still wins against people that mained their character for months. 



ethomaz on 02 July 2015

tbone51 said:

Both are here to stay, the only franchise that will do so (have 2 games) in major fighting tournaments.

That is not true.

SF have two interations (or even more) in major fighting tournaments.

EVO 2009, 2010 and 2011 had SFIII and SFIV for example... that only count main SF because if you add the spin-offs you can find 3-4 in the same EVO.



midrange on 02 July 2015
mZuzek said:
midrange said:

I find it hypocritical that smash wii u fans will complain about melee fans, while they also go out of their way to downplay melee.

They are two seperate games that only share similar titles and characters. That's it. Melee is more competitive and smash Wii u is not. To each their own

I'm not downplaying Melee.

What's happening is the exact opposite. I was defending Smash 4 from the Melee fanboy elitists (so yes, I'm complaining about Melee fans, with reason) who said that Melee is a better game and more competitive. And well, what's the next reply?

A Melee fan saying it's a more competitive game.

Did you not just claim that melee had less variety and less viable characters than smash Wii u? I'm pretty sure that is downplaying a game. I would have believed your claim to 'defend' smash Wii u had you not tried to attack melee.

Also, melee is more competitive than smash Wii u by design. I'm not making this up. This was brought up many many times by sakurai during the development of the game. Sakurai wanted to find a middle ground between the casual brawl and competitive melee.

read my comment again and you will see that I did not call one game better than the other. I called one more competitive than the other, that's it. Being competitive doesn't make a game better than one that is casual.



midrange on 02 July 2015
Normchacho said:
Skullwaker said:

This is all I needed.


I've played every smash extensively, and I really like the new game but Melee is the better tournament game.


I've also played both extensively, and say melee is the better tournament games despite playing a crap ton of smash Wii u



midrange on 02 July 2015
tbone51 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
ewwww. melee.

idc just MOVE ON.

 

Out of curiosity, why is it that people like you seem to be bothered by Melee's growing presence in the competitive scene?

 

Can't handle the hype?



I DONT get it either, especially when both games are at the peak right now (well more Melee). The only thing i hate is Melee fanboys wanting SSBU to go down.

Why when clearly both can co exist? Especially giving that it makes the brand (SSB) more viable in the fighting community?!

People have a fear that one game will eclipse the other for support (as follows in most other fighting franchises). The only way for them to coexist, is for people to stop treating them as games under the smash bros titles, and to treat them as individual games (nintendo naming the game smash Wii u does not help at all).

Likewise, melee fans need to stop talking trash about other fighters, and smash Wii u fans need to stop telling melee fans to "move on to something better." Both fan bases are acting like spoiled brats and this needs to stop or nothing gets accomplished