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Forums - Gaming - Street Fighter and Smash Dominates EVO 2015

midrange on 02 July 2015
mZuzek said:
midrange said:

Did you not just claim that melee had less variety and less viable characters than smash Wii u? I'm pretty sure that is downplaying a game. I would have believed your claim to 'defend' smash Wii u had you not tried to attack melee.

Also, melee is more competitive than smash Wii u by design. I'm not making this up. This was brought up many many times by sakurai during the development of the game. Sakurai wanted to find a middle ground between the casual brawl and competitive melee.

read my comment again and you will see that I did not call one game better than the other. I called one more competitive than the other, that's it. Being competitive doesn't make a game better than one that is casual.

Melee DOES have less variety and less viable characters than Smash 4. That's not me downplaying the game or attacking it, that's just a fact. And don't try to deny it, because it will only make you sound completely delusional. Melee has lots of great things, but in comparison to Smash 4 or even Brawl, variety isn't one of them.

And just because the game is played at a slower pace, with less glitches/exploits, doesn't mean it's less competitive. Sakurai said he was never making another Smash game after Melee, then went on to say the same after Brawl and Smash 4; he also said Smash 4 wouldn't have DLC, among other sorts of BS. He's not a guy you want to trust.

Once again you are claiming an opinion as fact. I specifically mentioned the different movement options and variations due to glitches that are explicitly patched out in smash Wii u. It may not seem like much, but for a fighting games, even small frames makes a world of difference.

You're definition of 'viable characters' also seems to be smash Wii u biased. I don't know if you were around during the heyday of diddy kong and sheik and greninja (pre nerf), but those were pretty much the best of the best and many had to main them to have a strong winning chance. Of course you would see the likes of shulk, sonic, captain falcon, ... But that's in the same vein where in melee you would see the likes of doctor mario, peach, captain falcon,...

Sakurai stated the game was being developed as not competitive while the game was being developed. He wasn't making a promise about the future like your examples, he was talking about current development. And unless he pushes out a ridiculously huge patch (or a game changing glitch that won't be patched is found) to change that, smash Wii u will simply not be more competitive than melee.



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Wyrdness on 02 July 2015
midrange said:

Once again you are claiming an opinion as fact. I specifically mentioned the different movement options and variations due to glitches that are explicitly patched out in smash Wii u. It may not seem like much, but for a fighting games, even small frames makes a world of difference.

You're definition of 'viable characters' also seems to be smash Wii u biased. I don't know if you were around during the heyday of diddy kong and sheik and greninja (pre nerf), but those were pretty much the best of the best and many had to main them to have a strong winning chance. Of course you would see the likes of shulk, sonic, captain falcon, ... But that's in the same vein where in melee you would see the likes of doctor mario, peach, captain falcon,...

Sakurai stated the game was being developed as not competitive while the game was being developed. He wasn't making a promise about the future like your examples, he was talking about current development. And unless he pushes out a ridiculously huge patch (or a game changing glitch that won't be patched is found) to change that, smash Wii u will simply not be more competitive than melee.


That's not an opinion mate he's actually right Melee is less varied and has less viable characters, it's the same as SFIV having more viable characters then Third Strike and that's all down to balance, I've been following Smash IV since launch. Diddy's hey day is not even that long ago as he was only recently nerfed last week and yet if you look at Smash 4 tournaments a large number of them including significantly large ones weren't won by Diddy players, Greninja has also never had such a period as so few players play him, so far only Amsa really mains him hence the running joke of nerf Greninja as we never really saw anything from the character as he was nerfed with in weeks of release, the likes of Falcon, Shulk, Sonic and such appearing is because they're viable characters.

Look at the top 8 of every Smash IV tournament the characters appearing in them range from right across the roster, that's something you'll not see if you look at every Melee tournament in the same period. To give you an idea of how wrong you are the DAIR Cancel which was discovered in Smash IV wasn't patched neither was the Perfect Pivot slide motion and these aren't even being utilized by players yet despite Smash IV at CEO highlighting that Smash IV is just as competitive and that's with out using such mechanics, what you'll never see in Smash 4 is a few select character dominating for years.



Azzanation on 02 July 2015
ethomaz said:

People like to say others fighting games are popular but the real truth is:

Ranking by #s entrants.

  • Ultra Street Fighter IV – 2,227
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – 1,926
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee – 1,869
  • Mortal Kombat X – 1,162
  • Guilty Gear Xrd – 968
  • Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 – 816
  • Tekken 7 – 458
  • Persona 4 Arena Ultimax – 437
  • Killer Instinct – 397

Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/01/street-fighter-iv-and-smash-bros-for-wii-u-have-the-most-entrants-at-evo-2015/#33oYghG9jiWPzL5x.99

Fun fact... KOF13 had 319 entrants last year and it is out of EVO this year.

More popular yes, better? probably not.



IkePoR on 02 July 2015
Clyde32 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
ewwww. melee.

idc just MOVE ON.

 

Out of curiosity, why is it that people like you seem to be bothered by Melee's growing presence in the competitive scene?

 

Can't handle the hype?


Melee elitists are the reason I'm seeing. While I agree that the melee community itself needs to not be such jerks to everyone else, Melee is still an amazing game.

Yes the community is the issue.  14 years of Fox/Falco; Fox/Shiek grand finals will do that to you.

Melee is an awesome game casually.  Competitivly it's down to a matter of out Foxing your opponents Fox.  Seriously, the best 3 guys have it down to a science now.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that... just that it's weird how it's still entertaining to people.

To me, even if you don't like playing Smash 4, seeing the meta develop is more interesting.



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HollyGamer on 02 July 2015
Azzanation said:
ethomaz said:

People like to say others fighting games are popular but the real truth is:

Ranking by #s entrants.

  • Ultra Street Fighter IV – 2,227
  • Super Smash Bros. for Wii U – 1,926
  • Super Smash Bros. Melee – 1,869
  • Mortal Kombat X – 1,162
  • Guilty Gear Xrd – 968
  • Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 – 816
  • Tekken 7 – 458
  • Persona 4 Arena Ultimax – 437
  • Killer Instinct – 397

Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/01/street-fighter-iv-and-smash-bros-for-wii-u-have-the-most-entrants-at-evo-2015/#33oYghG9jiWPzL5x.99

Fun fact... KOF13 had 319 entrants last year and it is out of EVO this year.

More popular yes, better? probably not.

popular because it's better lol, there is no other way to determine how good games beside with popularity. You can argue many times how good your opinion is but you cannot beat popularity and general consensus lol.



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The_BlackHeart__ on 02 July 2015

I miss Marvel vs Capcom so much. I hate that they have discrepancies regarding the super heroes rights.

But wait, Sony has a partnership with Marvel (thanks to Spiderman) and also a partnership with Capcom.

Sony make it happen! I'm calling it out right now:

Street Fighter vs Avengers in 2017!



Platina on 02 July 2015

Nice for Smash U, doubt it will replace Melee any time soon, but it definitely is doing better than Brawl :p



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ethomaz on 02 July 2015

IkePoR said: 

Yes the community is the issue.  14 years of Fox/Falco; Fox/Shiek grand finals will do that to you.

Melee is an awesome game casually.  Competitivly it's down to a matter of out Foxing your opponents Fox.  Seriously, the best 3 guys have it down to a science now.  I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that... just that it's weird how it's still entertaining to people.

To me, even if you don't like playing Smash 4, seeing the meta develop is more interesting.

Sorry but that is not true about the characters... I will made a list of the TOP characters used:

EVO 2013: Fox, Falco, Ice Climbers, Jigglypuff, Peach, Sheik, Marth, Dr. Mario and Zelda.
EVO 2014: Fox, Falco, Jigglypuff, Peach, Young Link, Marth, Pikachu, Sheik and Ice Climbers.

So the character variety exists... just because the actual champion likes Fox and Falco didn't make the others are using them too... the TOP players uses others characters.



ethomaz on 02 July 2015

Wyrdness said:

That's not an opinion mate he's actually right Melee is less varied and has less viable characters, it's the same as SFIV having more viable characters then Third Strike and that's all down to balance, I've been following Smash IV since launch. Diddy's hey day is not even that long ago as he was only recently nerfed last week and yet if you look at Smash 4 tournaments a large number of them including significantly large ones weren't won by Diddy players, Greninja has also never had such a period as so few players play him, so far only Amsa really mains him hence the running joke of nerf Greninja as we never really saw anything from the character as he was nerfed with in weeks of release, the likes of Falcon, Shulk, Sonic and such appearing is because they're viable characters.

Look at the top 8 of every Smash IV tournament the characters appearing in them range from right across the roster, that's something you'll not see if you look at every Melee tournament in the same period. To give you an idea of how wrong you are the DAIR Cancel which was discovered in Smash IV wasn't patched neither was the Perfect Pivot slide motion and these aren't even being utilized by players yet despite Smash IV at CEO highlighting that Smash IV is just as competitive and that's with out using such mechanics, what you'll never see in Smash 4 is a few select character dominating for years.

That is not true at all.

I watched a lot of Meele tournaments and at least 10 different characters are used by the top players.



Tbone on 02 July 2015

The top is expected. Happy to see GGXrd so high, awesome game. Tekken 7 could be better.

Its funny how people say Xbone don´t need SFV, they have KI. This list proves it all.