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Forums - Sales Discussion - 5.5 Million PS3s Shipped

SpaceJase said:
Is this poor guy expected to wave a magic wand and PS3 titles just appear out of thin air? It was a decent article up to that point.

1.  Ninja Gaiden Sigma - Ships 6/26/07

2.  NCAA Football 08  - Ships 7/17/07 

3. Lair - Ships 7/31/07

4. Warhawk - Ships 8/1/2007

5. Madden NFL 08  - Ships 8/14/07

6. Heavenly Sword - Ships 9/4/2007

SOCOM 4 and Killzone 2 release before Christmas



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Sir Cedric said:

albionus said:

Something to consider, if I recall (and I'm going by memory so I could easily be mistaken) the Dreamcast and GameCube both had to halt production after they had only sold, to consumers to make it clear to certain folk, 5-6 million with 5-6 million consoles in various warehouses. 6 months in and Sony is half way to that situation.


"January 25, 2001 - Sony Corp announced on Thursday that it expects to ship a total of nine million PlayStation 2s by the end of the current business year that ends on March 31, 2001, which is down from its previous forecast of 10 million units. This shipment reduction, however, will not affect the North American market according to PR representatives at Sony Computer Entertainment America. SCEA still expects to meet its target of three million units shipped in North America by March 31."                                      http://ps2.ign.com/articles/090/090491p1.html


I'm not sure what the point of that is.  If it bore some relationship to what I said I'd like to know.



Sir Cedric said:
SpaceJase said:
Is this poor guy expected to wave a magic wand and PS3 titles just appear out of thin air? It was a decent article up to that point.

1.  Ninja Gaiden Sigma - Ships 6/26/07

2.  NCAA Football 08  - Ships 7/17/07 

3. Lair - Ships 7/31/07

4. Warhawk - Ships 8/1/2007

5. Madden NFL 08  - Ships 8/14/07

6. Heavenly Sword - Ships 9/4/2007

SOCOM 4 and Killzone 2 release before Christmas

It actually was a silly comment.  A good game takes about two years to make at the least.  Some take damn near five years.  He can't just "juice up" the PS3's lineup.
That's also a poor list.  I think the only thing on that list that will sell well are Madden NFL 08 and Lair, and Lair is about the only game on that list that isn't an Xbox remake that looks good. 

 



Sir Cedric said:
SpaceJase said:
Is this poor guy expected to wave a magic wand and PS3 titles just appear out of thin air? It was a decent article up to that point.

1.  Ninja Gaiden Sigma - Ships 6/26/07

2.  NCAA Football 08  - Ships 7/17/07 

3. Lair - Ships 7/31/07

4. Warhawk - Ships 8/1/2007

5. Madden NFL 08  - Ships 8/14/07

6. Heavenly Sword - Ships 9/4/2007

SOCOM 4 and Killzone 2 release before Christmas

To be honest that seems like a sad little list ...

8 Games representing 4 genres of which one is a port of an XBox game (Ninja Gaiden), one is a sequel of a pretty "meh" game (Killzone 2), the fourth installment of a series who's quality and sales keep droping with each installment (SOCOM), 2 football games one of which is available for wrist watches, and a bunch of untested properties.

If you're going to put multi-platform games on the list (Madden) you should put GTA, Devil May Cry, and other quality multiplatform games on the list instead of some of the games you listed.



And don't forgot that's only a list of the games comming on the PS3, the other two platforms have many games that can limit the quantity of copy they can sold on PS3 :

-Bioshock

-Too Human

-Mass Effect

-Assassin's Creed ( will likely sale more on 360 )

-Halo 3 ( september 25 )

-Mario Striker Charged ( online )

-Big Brain Academy ( for a big sell out in the casual crowd )

-Metroid Prime 3



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most of the fighting seems to come from the definition of "customers". To a company such as Sony, the customer is not the consumer, but the retailer. Therefore "sold to customers" means "sold to retailers" and not "sold to consumers". The truth is no company knows "sold to consumers", and no company states "sold to consumers" numbers because quite simply that number is almost impossible to track. Any number Sony could say for "sold to consumers" would just be an estimate and would be no more or less accurate than VGCharts. Of course, they will have numbers for Sold to retailers, because that's where they make their sale. The same goes for all three companies, sold only ever means "sold to retailers". So basically 5.5 million PS3's have left the doors of the manufacturing plant, 3.6 million PS3's have arrived at stores, and approx 3 million have been bought by consumers and are sitting in living rooms. This doesn't look too good for Sony, if sales continue at their current pace it will take them about 8 months just to go through their current inventory (of course, it's ridiculous to say that sales will continue at their current pace, but I would be very surprised if Sony has sold their current stack of PS3's by the time holiday season hits



Help! I'm stuck in a forum signature!

Ya know, I'm really tired of this obfuscation (obscuring, fogging, confusion-making) that goes on around here when it comes to companies being forthright with their performances.

THESE are the definitions.

Shipped = Sold to retailers ready to be stocked in the stores. Shipped by ship, train, and truck to the store waiting to be bought. On its way to the stores to be placed on the storeshelves.

Sold = Sold to customers who BUY the already-shipped and stocked goods off of the storeshelves. USED by these customers and enjoyed as a product in their homes or favorite locales.

THAT'S the definitions. Not MADE and sent to company warehouses to prepare for shipping. Not SOLD to retailers which means nothing except in terms of supply for customers. Not in the process of being made. Not planned on being made. Not sitting at the docks in limbo.

Shipped by transport and sold to paying customers is the ONLY definition of those words. Corporations love to make this shaky talk. Non-GAAP on the financial statements. A buncha of bull! What's on the damn books NOW not what may be or will be? That's another issue. Quit playing games to make the stockholders feel confident in their investment. Being honest is best policy regardless of consequences when dealing with other people's money.

Quit trying to reinvent English and speaking all 1984-ish.

John Lucas



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

omgwtfbbq said:
most of the fighting seems to come from the definition of "customers". To a company such as Sony, the customer is not the consumer, but the retailer. Therefore "sold to customers" means "sold to retailers" and not "sold to consumers". The truth is no company knows "sold to consumers", and no company states "sold to consumers" numbers because quite simply that number is almost impossible to track. Any number Sony could say for "sold to consumers" would just be an estimate and would be no more or less accurate than VGCharts. Of course, they will have numbers for Sold to retailers, because that's where they make their sale. The same goes for all three companies, sold only ever means "sold to retailers". So basically 5.5 million PS3's have left the doors of the manufacturing plant, 3.6 million PS3's have arrived at stores, and approx 3 million have been bought by consumers and are sitting in living rooms. This doesn't look too good for Sony, if sales continue at their current pace it will take them about 8 months just to go through their current inventory (of course, it's ridiculous to say that sales will continue at their current pace, but I would be very surprised if Sony has sold their current stack of PS3's by the time holiday season hits

Totally wrong.

You can easily track customer numbers. How?

Whatever is shipped is counted first. And whatever remains in stock after sellings to customers is the remainder. The SOLD TO CUSTOMERS is the difference. That's how you track sales to customers. Once a shipment is depleted whatever number that shipment was is a figure to count as sold. TRULY sold. Sold to Retailers means crap. Because there's no guarantee that the stuff is moving off the shelves. That's how we're 5 months in and XBox 360 still hasn't reached that 10 million number yet. The frequency of new shipments and the rapid destocking by purchases from customers means success.

Now they don't tell US this stuff word for word, no. But it's not at ALL hard to concretely figure what is being sold. It has to leave the store right? The store keeps inventory right? That nonsense about it being hard to track just doesn't hold weight. They just don't release the info to us. Japan certainly tracks this stuff which is why those ship/sold sleights of hand won't work there.

They don't talk about sales to consumers on reports much because all the investors are interested in money earned in profit. Sony made gigantic sales in revenue on the PS1 & PS2 but profitwise had little to show for that dominance. Investors only care about money, new avenues for money, new money-making ideas. So that's what they get on those reports.

There NEEDS to be customer metric for this kind of thing and I hope one day VGChartz is able to become the go-to guide to truly assess the performances of systems in the future.

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

I'm pretty sure you'll find different definitions if you look up those words in a dictionary, so it has nothing to do with redefining the english language. They are hardly missusing the words. 'sold' can mean sold to any party. I don't understand why you get so hung up on it to absolutely mean an end-user. I'm sure retailers are paying customers. That said, I'd really like shipped and sold to mean what you said, but your argumentation for the case is pretty weak imho. Ofcourse the difference between sold to retail and what they have left in stock is what has been sold to consumers, but the console manufacturers don't have the current inventory numbers for every retailer in the entire world.



You can work the numbers to say whatever you want them to say. Sony has shipped or has, 5.5m PS3s in the world. Good? Yes, but MS produced 4.4m in just 3 months when the PS3 launched. So we stand at (in millions): MS; 10.9 shipped Nintendo; 5.83 shipped Sony; 5.5 shipped With actual units in gamers hands as of today: MS; 9.7 Nintendo; 6.8 Sony; 3.7



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.