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Forums - Sales Discussion - 5.5 Million PS3s Shipped

reverie said:
John, I don't really know what your point is. Sold to retail is what matters to investors of Sony, that's what they have reported this time (3.6 million). And sold to consumers is what matters to consumers? I don't think so. You're just thinking of yourself as the most important customer. In a couple of years, RFID will help a lot to track units sold more precisely across the whole chain (which also includes distributors, not just Sony, retail and consumers), but it will still be at the discretion of Sony if they release more numbers or not. Remember, they just have to release figures for investors. If they weren't on the stock market, they wouldn't have to publizise anything at all. And 3rd party figures from NPD or Media Create will *always* be estimates based on statistic samples. How could that not be obvious.

See that's what I'm talking about. Sold to retail SHOULDN'T matter to investors alone. If not in context to what's sold to customers it's meaningless. What I'm talking about is this practice of leaving the most important part of the chain. They can discuss figures all they want but if the so-called consumers aren't buying then none of what ANYTHING they do matters. THAT'S what I'm talking about.

I KNOW HOW they do things. What I'm saying is that's not the right focus. And the attitude to the one who puts food on your table is what irks me. I'm not talking about ME. I'm talking about US. We who buy and purchase this stuff. If businesspeople think they are above the customers they're serving then they will go out of business.

At their discretion, my ass. That's the problem and the investors should have a problem with that as well. They put their own money in to fund the company's ventures and the company can't be straight about their true performance??? It's an insult when people pass off shipped or sold to retail numbers as evidence of success. That number matters when linked to sold to customers. Which makes it more easy to sell more to more retailers. XBox 360 is proof in pudding of sold to retailers not meaning a hill of beans. How many months have we seen 9 million?

I don't care about what IS practiced or what is legal. I care about what is RIGHT. Corporations got this powerful because of people not holding their practices to task. That's how stock market crashes happen. That's how the internet bubble popped. That's how goods ended up getting made overseas gutting jobs. That's how outsourcing got started. That's how Enron did its dirt.

How simple do I have to make it? If the customer is not included in the conversation who are you serving? The investor must be respected but if customer means nothing then why produce a product? He's the whole reason any of you got your positions in the first place.

A hotel manager who can't respect the maids who keep the rooms tidy needs to go under. A general who doesn't respect the work of the grunt privates in the trenches needs to be uprooted. The one who makes the machine work is ALWAYS the most important. The attitude of condescendation toward the very one who makes the whole thing possible will never be tolerated by me and it shouldn't by you either. A boss is never more important than his workers.

It's deception and I don't tolerate deception. What have you SOLD for REAL? How is your product REALLY doing? No non-GAAP nonsense. What is on the books now? I don't accept your "gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today", Wimpy. Keep that check is in the mail garbage. This is important to customers as WELL as investors. I can't invest in a company that can't be straight with me. And I can't buy from a company that won't be straight with me.

It's a simple thing called honesty and with how corporations have conducted themselves so long I can see why my words seem to be from a foreign language. No one expects what should be done and have accepted deceptive practices.

And besides investors don't care about sold to retail; they care about net profit and the returns on their shares. 

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

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Ok, then tell me any other company that breaks out sold to retail vs. sold to consumer. Any industry.


Disconnects between those two numbers are important and therefore should make news. However in a free market economy they will alway be temporary. Sony can fill the shelves of all their 100.000 retailers they partner with all over the world, but they can do that just once. After that they will have to wait for follow-up oreders to come in and slow demand will clearly show in "sold to retail" by the next quarter. The same thing happened to Microsoft after Christmas. "Sold to retail" is entirely adequate to measure real sales performance.

Further, Sony always comment NPD numbers in a way that tells you that they don't dispute them.


Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

reverie said:
Ok, then tell me any other company that breaks out sold to retail vs. sold to consumer. Any industry.

Disconnects between those two numbers are important and therefore should make news. However in a free market economy they will alway be temporary. Sony can fill the shelves of all their 100.000 retailers they partner with all over the world, but they can do that just once. After that they will have to wait for follow-up oreders to come in and slow demand will clearly show in "sold to retail" by the next quarter. The same thing happened to Microsoft after Christmas. "Sold to retail" is entirely adequate to measure real sales performance.

Further, Sony always comment NPD numbers in a way that tells you that they don't dispute them.

If I were an investor, I would like to know how many units that have been bought by consumers. Since Sony is losing money on each console sold, I would want to know how many customers actually have the system so I know the potential softwares sales. The consoles sitting on the shelves does Sony no good. If they are trying to make money buy selling software, how are the systems at the retailers going to convince me to invest in Sony? Smart investors should know all the facts, especially the facts that will make money.



Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

mancandy,

Smart investors will know what you know: The shelves are full (which is a feat, not a burden), but consumer sales are slow. And as I said you will know by next quarter how slow they are, because "sold to retail" will always echo "sold to consumers", after some delay.


Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

Oh, I just remember one thing other companies do to. They won't tell you how many units are still in the channel but not in consumer's hands - instead they will tell you how many weeks shippings are ahead, like 6 or 8 weeks until the channel would run out of stock if the factories stopped shipping. Sony could do that, though I still don't think they have to and all required information is on the table right now.



Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

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reverie, I don't have to wait until the next quarter to know, I know now that consumer sales are slow. Sales have been dropping week after week with no sign of going up. So what if shelves are full? They are full of other products as well. How is that a feat? The real feat is having to restock those shelves week after week. I would want to know the exact user base of the system so I know the potential sales of software, the only source of income for the PS3 right now. There is no real convincing argument that the PS3 is going to start selling soon. All I hear is wait. Wait for Gundam, wait for Virtua Fighter 5, wait for Motorstorm, wait for Hot Shots Golf, wait for Home, wait for MG4 (delayed), wait for FFXIII (delayed), wait for next quarter. Smart investors want concrete evidence that it will start to sell, not just wait. I say "smart investors" since there are some investors that will buy into all the "wait" agrument.



Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

Keep in mind according to Sega they had shipped roughly 30-million DreamCast's by the time they discontinued it. Well in all reality the DreamCast only sold 10-million units when it was discontinued for North America it is rumoured that it went on to sell another  million in the Japanese market since where it was only discontinued officially last year.

 So that being said Sega did better the Sony is, keep in mind DreamCast sold over 10-million units launch year didn't it. I remember it broke records all over and then the PS2 crushed it the following year. DreamCast had a 3-year lifespan starting in 99-01. During which time over 10-million hardware units were sold and according to Sega over tripple the amount of sold was officially shipped and sitting in the backs of stores. That was said in Sega's official Magazines final issue.

So DreamCast lasted 3-years and sold 10-million shipping about 40-million because three times 10x3 - million units. So then look at Sony's 3-million PS3's sold so far in half a year and times by 6 ad we get 18-million units sold. In other words PS3 is DreamCasting. 

 I mean PS3 is weaker out of the gate the DreamCast was and it looks like its not getting any stronger!So if PS3 is doing worse then DreamCast was at this point in its lifespan that should signal something to you! DreamCast was actually a better selling console then PS3 is currently!



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

mancandy said:
reverie, I don't have to wait until the next quarter to know, I know now that consumer sales are slow. Sales have been dropping week after week with no sign of going up. So what if shelves are full? They are full of other products as well. How is that a feat? The real feat is having to restock those shelves week after week. I would want to know the exact user base of the system so I know the potential sales of software, the only source of income for the PS3 right now. There is no real convincing argument that the PS3 is going to start selling soon. All I hear is wait. Wait for Gundam, wait for Virtua Fighter 5, wait for Motorstorm, wait for Hot Shots Golf, wait for Home, wait for MG4 (delayed), wait for FFXIII (delayed), wait for next quarter. Smart investors want concrete evidence that it will start to sell, not just wait. I say "smart investors" since there are some investors that will buy into all the "wait" agrument.

AH someone understands! Sold to retailers without context to sold to customers is a worthless stat because it's not a true sign of success. Channel stuffing happens because they overship product to fool investors that project is going well. And the lies get printed in the media to fool both investors and customers.

It is NOT a feat to say "I packed those stores full of stock" if no one is buying said stock. That's dishonest if one tries to separate the context like that.

Everyone should know these numbers and they CAN be tracked. IRS counts every last dollar you make. Sales trackers can easily track sales if they really wanted to. I don't buy that argument for a minute.

That's right, mancandy. The difference between an investor and a SMART investor. You understand EXACTLY what I'm saying. And the sad thing is people accept corps' cock and bull practices without question.

ALWAYS question, my friend. ESPECIALLY with THEM.

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 


If I were an investor, I would like to know how many units that have been bought by consumers. Since Sony is losing money on each console sold, I would want to know how many customers actually have the system so I know the potential softwares sales. The consoles sitting on the shelves does Sony no good.


Sure, but videogame consoles are a very cyclical industry. About half of all console sales take place in the holiday season (Oct-Dec). My guess is, with something as complex as the PS3, Sony is probably under the gun to stockpile as many PS3s for the holiday season as possible. The 5.5 million shipped/ 3.1 million sold makes sense, from this point of view. Since PS3s are fairly hefty, they have to be shipped via ocean freighter, which takes 24-48 days to reach its destination. Global demand is about 200,000 units per month, maybe a little more, so Sony probably has 400,000 to 500,000 units in transit. The rest -- about 2 million -- are being held back for the holiday season.  

But this is just a guess. Can anyone with logistics experience confirm/deny this?



No, they are not stockpiling for the December holiday in March. I can't believe I even have to say that.