By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Video games causing a "masculinity crisis" claims famed psychologist

BraLoD said:
Yes, let's blame the videogames again.
It's not like people who wanted to be alone didn't get other hobbies before them at all.

And what the hell have videogames and pornography to be linked?
People watch porn because they want to, all kinds of people that have all kinds of hobbies as sports or even volunteers to social acts or charity.

Humans are naturally interested in sex and some to be alone since ever.
Stop blaming the videogames and giving human habits a excuse because you can't accept them.


You are concentraiting too much on the video game aspect of it. Think outside of the box. It's the isolation, but video games and ultra masculine protagonists can leave their mark if the situation is right. There are also movies, and the internet that goes along with it. Many message boards, youtube videos and the like are also ultra masculine (which is rather funny) and it directly speaks of over compensation. The excessive porn certainly doesn't help either. 

The point is that the number of these circumstances is growing fairly rapidly. When I was in school, it was normal for there to be maybe 1 really socially awkward kid in the class (usually male), or maybe even 1 in a couple classes. Now it seems like nearly half the class is very socially awkward, more than the norm as almost all kids are at least a bit socially awkward lol. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

Around the Network
SvennoJ said:
DarthVolod said:

I did like that Zimbardo at least had a nugget of truth buried in the article when he describes media as presenting men as fat slobs only interested in sex. If you create a culture that detests men then don't be surprised when men reject that culture and cast aside traditional institutions like school and marriage.

I grew up with a mother that always said all men were bad, pretty much rapists to be if they had the slightest chance.
That had a far bigger effect on my social development than any porn. I had no clue how to approach a girl, just do not think about sex cause she doesn't want it. Plus allways the warnings about child molestors, every man near a park or school is suspicious, men flashing their stuff in public, visiting whores etc. I though I was going to grow up to become some sort of monster.

Oh well, now we'll add all porn is bad to the list, causes erectile dysfunction and social apathy together with video games.
I guess I'll isolate myself  and go read some more books, pretty much how I spend my early life before video games got me to socialize with friends....

Unfotunately your mom kinda screwed the pooch on that one. Are there guys like that? Absolutely. Are the majority of them/us like that? Nope. 

Anything beyond moderation can be bad. In some circumstances even moderate use can be bad, it really depends on the content. 



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

Goatseye said:
gamingpotato7 said:
Some of the fault can be attributed to video games and porn for their excessive stimulation. Truth is, when being depressed finding anything sufficiently stimulating is very hard. Some of the fault has to be attributed to this excessive femism and men/boys shaming that exists in the last decades. I say femism because feminism is supposed to be about equality but having men shamed at every place including media is not feminism. There are so many examples that prove this, it just can't be explained in one post.

Depression in men is increasing, and one of the main reasons is their lack of freedom to be actual men, instead of pussies that do what women want. It makes them feel like failures and most will actually go to video games and porn for compensating what they can't achieve in real life.

But talking more specifically about video games and simply put, we shouldn't put porn and video games in the same sentence. Normal video game usage is simply... normal. It is an hobby, a healthy one because it has many benefits, but playing more than 2/3/4 hours each day when the person has a job is not very healthy I think because it detracts from other areas of life, like family, taking care of yourself, friends and potential romantic relationships.

Can you explain these sentences? What the "freedom to be actual men" really means?

 

Men are fundamentally different from women and women are fundamentally different from men. We shouldn't have to make the same kind of decisions, or think alike, there is a whole dynamic between the two sexes that is healthy and essential and that is what actually makes most women happy in a relationship.

But instead there is this whole culture of making men have the same kind of sensitivity, that women are more emotionally evolved (whatever that means), that men should not look at women and simply being attracted to them, that men are creeps. In school they teach boys to be like girls, to not be more aggressive and whatever boys do, and "always" bring the example that girls are so much more superior and more intelligent. Also that you never hit a girl even if she is a total bitch and is hitting you, you just can't defend yourself. Or that you have to please your girlfriend or potential girlfriend a lot even sometimes sacrificing your pleasure simply because they are more complex beings. ALSO that you should accept a lot of their bullshit because they are so emotional and complex. What kind of message does that send? Of course men will put women in pedestals and be pussies and then women step on them and do whatever they want.

All of these things send many mixed messages to boys and men and they start behaving like girls actually and then girls are, of course, not attracted to them and they spiral into depression or other things. An extremely socially anxious boy or man that can't talk to girls is not normal, he should have been brought correctly and not have these problems because naturally being a boy/man he would learn his place, what it means to be a man and how he should treat women.

Anyway, if none of this makes sense to you, then you are lucky cause you never witnessed the real results of this modern age femism. Equal rights doesn't mean equal roles.



sc94597 said:
gamingpotato7 said:

But talking more specifically about video games and simply put, we shouldn't put porn and video games in the same sentence. Normal video game usage is simply... normal. It is an hobby, a healthy one because it has many benefits, but playing more than 2/3/4 hours each day when the person has a job is not very healthy I think because it detracts from other areas of life, like family, taking care of yourself, friends and potential romantic relationships.

Normal porn usage is also not harmful. 

I don't find using porn 2/3/4 hours a day is healthy. How can it be? Even more if a man can only get an erection while watching porn. But I was thinking in the same hours of usage as video game. Of course using porn just for 15 minutes once in a while, how is that harmful? It is just to jack off, and people in relationships also masturbate and it is healthy nonetheless. But several hours? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.



gamingpotato7 said:
sc94597 said:
gamingpotato7 said:

But talking more specifically about video games and simply put, we shouldn't put porn and video games in the same sentence. Normal video game usage is simply... normal. It is an hobby, a healthy one because it has many benefits, but playing more than 2/3/4 hours each day when the person has a job is not very healthy I think because it detracts from other areas of life, like family, taking care of yourself, friends and potential romantic relationships.

Normal porn usage is also not harmful. 

I don't find using porn 2/3/4 hours a day is healthy. How can it be? But I was thinking in the same hours of usage as video game. Of course using porn just for 15 minutes once in a while, how is that harmful? It is just to jack off, and people in relationships also masturbate and it is healthy nonetheless. But several hours? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

I was considering that it was implicitly assumed that normal time expenditure in one activity is different from normal time expenditure in another. Although many teenagers do spend quite a lot of time looking at porn, mostly because they aren't having sex consistently and it is quite new to them. I think for a teenager it isn't a huge deal because 1. their responsibilities are less time-consuming and fewer than an adult. 2. They tend to have higher sex drives than people >25, and 3. They aren't having sex as often as an adult. For a lot of people porn and masturbation are not very sexual. It is just a way to remove the distractions of sexual urges so that you can get on with your day. In my opinion, it is balanced because it doesn't act as a replacement for sex. 



Around the Network

You know I used to think I was so blessed to have the internet. When I was having a bad day I would google memes and laugh my ass off. I had world class pornography free at my finger tips. I never really knew it could impact my real life.

Man the internet is quite something.



First, some of my reactions to the video.

0:30 - Yeah, boys and young men are having a number of problems in the academic world nowadays. Colleges have about 4 female students for every 3 male students, financial support is often more easily acessible for women than men, etc. I agree so far.

1:05 - Of course boys and men are scared of being intimate with girls and women! When an elementary schooler messes up his conversation with a girl in his class, he gets suspended. If a middle school girl hits a male peer, the boy would get into at least as much trouble as the girl would by defending himself. If a high school boy and high school girl are in a relationship, his girlfriend sending him selfies can get the boy in trouble for being a pedophile. If a woman in college regrets sleeping with a man, she can easily call it rape and destroy the man's life, even without taking any legal measures. Point is, there are a lot of incentives to avoid contact with female peers on a general basis.

1:45 - Men not catching on to womens' feelings? Sounds like every television show ever aired.

2:05 - So men having strong relationships with one another is a bad thing?

2:50 - I'm male, but somehow suspect women do not want to be based primarily on my sex appeal. Point is, if porn is more rewarding for a man than a relationship with a woman, said relationship was never built on sturdy ground in the first place.

3:25 - How long are the clips? I don't use those kinds of videos (I'm more of a literature fan), but I can easily imagine most of those 50 clips being 10 seconds long before the guy moves onto something else. Using clips as the unit of measurement seems odd.

4:17 - I love how the emphasis is on women seeking good mates. "Yeah, this is a crisis in masculinity. Think of the pain and suffering women are experiencing!" Imagine if he were talking about problems women's education and spent most of the ending talking about how men would benefit.

------

Article Reactions

"When I'm in class, I'll wish I was playing World of Warcraft. When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected." - So this young men does not enjoy his class and is uncomfortable talking with a girl? Stop the presses!

He also mentioned the growing problem of a disputed phenomenon called 'porn-induced erectile dysfunction', or PIED. - Two paragraphs later, it's mentioned that there's no proven link. So we know this guy's message is at least partially BS without even finishing the article.

Parents must become aware of the number of hours a child is spending alone in their room playing games and watching porn at the expense of other activities. - When I was younger, I spent large periods of time by myself reading books and doodling maps. As I placed a greater emphasis on games later on, it actually made social activity simpler. If there were a direct link with a more "respectable" form of enertainment like literature or reading biographies, would there be any alarm?

He also called for better sex education in schools - which should focus not only on biology and safety, but also on emotions, physical contact and romantic relationships. - My experience with sex education does not instill me with confidence about schools' ability to teach about emotions and romance. Not to mention that any widespread education reform in the USA (and I suspect other countries also) will be corrupted by social politics.

Stanford Prison Experiment - This is the same guy? That explains a bit. The experiment was famous for its attempt to show what emotional, mental, and behavioral activity was inherent in the prison system. The thing is, this experiment was flawed at best. There were only 24 subjects total, all volunteers for this sort of thing, who were predominantly young men with a middle-class background and no records of trouble involving crime or mental illness. In other words, not exactly a great base for experiments. There was also nothing like a neutral observation or control group to base values off of, and hardly any findings could easily be represented as data. Zimbardo is a sensationalist who hit the jackpot, that's all.



reggin_bolas said:
DarthVolod said:

This guy can't see the forest through the trees ... the reason why men are turning to video games and porn is because they offer a superior experience to traditional education and relationships. It's all about incentives...

Why care about school when the education system predomincantly caters to female students (little physical activity, emphasis on manners and tact in a sterile environment where so much as mentioning something not PC will get you suspended or expelled). This is not to mention college where female only scholarships and a female centric education system are running men out of higher education in droves to the point where way less than half of the students in a majority of campuses are men, and that number is shrinking.

Let's compare pornography to a traditional relationship ....

Pornography is free, it caters to any fantasy you can think of, can be used on demand when the man feels like using it, and it will not reject a man (rejection being something that men suffer from which women never have to worry about due to the social norms/expectation that a man initiates in all matters of romance).

Let's not forget the other advantages of not being in a relationship ... financial savings (since men are expected to pay for everything), not having to deal with the emotions and outbursts of a partner, no fear of being accused of sexual assault or having an unwanted pregnancy, and the list goes on. There is also the  key advantage of pornography in that it offers variety whereas traditional relationships lock you in with one partner which, many would argue, goes against a man's biology as promiscuity was a part of a man's experience in nature.

This is not to say that pornography fulfills all of a man's needs and replaces a relationship entirely as it cannot offer any form of companionship or tactile human contact. This may change in the future though with the creation of sophisticated sex dolls or whatever.

Pornography and video games offer an alternative that is, in many ways, superior to traditional relationships and schools. The answer here is not to fight against them but rather to find ways to make schools and traditional relationships a better deal for men. This will, naturally, be easier to do with schools as changing relationships would require a social movement or something like that.

I did like that Zimbardo at least had a nugget of truth buried in the article when he describes media as presenting men as fat slobs only interested in sex. If you create a culture that detests men then don't be surprised when men reject that culture and cast aside traditional institutions like school and marriage.

Interesting and accurate analysis in most parts. I think there's a refuge to be had in games and porn as you say. I found it easier to be happy when I played games than in social situations. I wasn't popular in school and had few friends. That rejection hurt but the games never hurt. It just made me feel happy. Same thing with relationships. When I was married I'd play lot of Baldur's Gate. The gaming romances were so much more emotionally exciting. 

You are very correct when it comes to rejection. It hurts to be rejected when you want sex. It bruises the male ego so much and women just don't seem to understand this


Female and male rejection are so fundamentally different from each other that neither sex can truly comprehend the other's experience. Men have to put themselves out there and risk direct overt rejection from a woman. Many, myself included in the past, struggle with this, and other men avoid relationships entirely because of it. Even with adequate self-esteem, it is still a psychologically traumatic experience to be rejected. 

Women never have to fear overt rejection. They experience rejection when they go out on a Friday night all dressed up with their girlfriends looking for men, and end up coming home to an empty bed as no man found her sufficiently attractive and/or they did not want to face overt rejection by approaching her. I would argue this is still rejection, but it lacks the overt incident of actually being rejected; thus she can always tell herself that there were just no worthy men to ask her out. A man can not do this, he took a chance on a woman he was interested in, and that woman told him, often bluntly, that he was undesirable.

Personally, I would prefer the experience of a woman. It is better to be an object of sexual desire than a man that has to "prove his worth" to a woman via his status, wealth, education, confidence, charm, humor, assertiveness etc. all while facing direct and psychologically harmful rejection.

Yes, I said object of desire as most men are merely interested in women for sexual contact and some basic form of companionship. Women are interested in men for the equally base reason of going after the man's wealth and maybe some basic level of companionship. Neither sex is truly interested in the other as people or ends in and of themselves. There are exceptions, but on a primal biological level, this is nearly always the case.



I kinda see it, maybe not in the same way but i see tons of people say ''im not playing that, it looks too kiddy'' or wish something was M rated this or that, wont play T or E games. Seems this psychologist was somewhat right



NND: 0047-7271-7918 | XBL: Nights illusion | PSN: GameNChick

Dusk said:
SvennoJ said:
"When I'm with a girl, I'll wish I was watching pornography, because I'll never get rejected."

And that's only the male's fault?
In this society where sex is taught to be bad, boys want nothing but sex, sex will kill you, proper girls don't have sex, etc etc. We have a risk of overpopulation anyway, free internet porn for everybody to control the population!

There was no internet porn when I grew up, had to do it all by myself. Didn't slow me down in the slightest...

Anyway another study that confirms, anything consumed in over abundance can be bad for you, shocker.
Teach how to moderate yourself in school, not simply that everything that's fun is bad.


If you are being taught that sex is bad, you need to find a way to get some proper teaching on it. You should also likely report this. 

Basically it's spiderman syndrome. With great power comes great responsibilty. That is how sex should be looked at lol. It's wicked, awesome, fantastic, and amazing. But it's necessary to control it because there can be some serious consequences to it. It is in no way bad. 

A rather random incident that sort of goes with this. : an apprentice of a good friend of mine was in a long, albeit sort of mentall abusive relationship (he was being somewhat domineered by his girlfriend). Anyway, the relationship ended, not a bad thing. But he decided to help himself move on from the relationship by going to a bad and finding a girl to... 'work out his sexual frustraitions with'. This was only the third girl he had ever been with, first one night stand and he ended up walkting away with... genital warts :-/  Poor guy. Had to get a needle and the doc told him it could last upwards of 6 months. Pretty rough, if you ask me. 

Always check the quality of the turf before stepping out on the field. 

Sex ed in school basically came down to learning a long list of STDs. That was over 25 years ago though.
A long list of stats, so many people get this std, count them all up and you're guaranteed not to survive any encounter lol.
The other part was a very mechanical desciption of the act and then straight on to fertilization of the egg. Ahh the eighties.