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Forums - Gaming - In Theory: Nintendo's next-gen hardware - and the strategy behind it

jonathanalis said:
i dont think that will be an hybrid handheld/home console.
they will keep a home console and a handheld, but with same OS for easy porting.
arround 50% of the games will be shared, but each console will have their own exclusives.(the big hits will be exclusives: pokemon on handheld, 3d zelda on home console), all VC and indies will be shared.
powerwise, i wouldnt believe in something much more powerfull than ps4. 250 to 300$ at launch.(ps4 will last for at least more 10 years, developers will port for it even when ps5 is in, nintendo home console would benefit from it, if power was a issue for porting)
handheld somewhere between vita and wii U power, 150 to 200$.
date?2017


Just to point you out that Iwata talked about programming directly to hardware, meaning hardware compatibility and not OS,  and unified development, that specifically means no porting.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

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teigaga said:
GTAexpert said:
teigaga said:

Yeah, I definitely agree. My thing is Nintendo has that power where their core audience is concerned, if they launch strong with software there core fans will pay any reasonable price and IMO 449 for cutting edge tech in 2017 would be reasonable- remember that the gamecube launched at $199 and the wii at $250. Xbox at 299, Xbox 360 at 399. Beyond that it would play into repositioning Nintendo's brand, they're not going for cheap gimmicks any more or fads, they're selling a premium product which will have Nintendo best IPs out of the gate and superior 3rd party titles to sony and microsoft. This would be the pitch anyway ;)

The points you made actually go against what you want to believe. Nintendo consumers don't like to spend much money on hardware the same way PlayStation and Xbox gamers do. If they launch their next console at a high price they will neither be able to get their fans to buy their console nor would fans of the other consoles buy their console for the same reason they aren't buying Wii U's right now.

I don't think that just launching a console at a premium price makes it a premium product in the eyes of consumers. They would have to come out with games like Uncharted/Halo/God Of War/Gran Turismo, and have to prove that they can develop these kind of games as well. With their current lineup its hard to believe that they can pull it off. They would also need proper marketing on channels whose viewers are more than small kids.

I don't know where you got that idea from, not saying its wrong simply I have never seen such a pattern. Nintendo's products are typically overpriced by what they're offering in comparison to the competition, luke warm home console sales for them have always been down to software weakness or hardware design. When the Wii U dropped in price there was no notable sale adjustments, sales were more or less flat. Its hardware is wholy unattractive and software line up still one of the worst we've seen despite a few big games here and there. So I will stick firmly with the believe that Nintendo's core fanbase will pay a premium price for Nintendo hardware if it features there key properties delivered in a timely fashion and the hardware itself offers a premium value (cutting edge). They would not just be selling at a premium price, they would be delivering a premium service and marketing the system as one and for that reason your Wii U comparison doesn't make sense for me. When I say price will ''play into repositioning Nintendo's brand'' I'm elduing to being a generally rebranding/marketing the system. Stuff like finding relevant Tv spots and marketing styles to mature/generalise their brand isn't rocket science.

''
they will neither be able to get their fans to buy their console nor would fans of the other consoles buy their console for the same reason they aren't buying Wii U's right now''


No one is buying Wii U's right now because it has weak outdated/unappealing hardware that was obsolete the minute it launched, the software is weak, it lacks third party support (largely down to the lack of appeal in the hardware) and has horrible marketing attached to it. I'm suggesting Nintendo's next system would do away with all of those issues.

-Have great, cutting edge hardware far above PS4/X1 and future proofed for the next generation (and as a result)
-Have great 3rd party support, with games which perform far better on it then on PS4/X1 (incentive for core gamers to pay interest in the system as PS4 and X1 will be showing there age in 2017 but probably not have successors for another year or 2). 
-Have great 1st party support out the gate to secure they're core fanbase early, (a matter of planning). This alongside future proofed tech would make far more people comfortable in making the system a primary console for the next gen and thus garuntee them a very impressive launch year in regards to sales (impressive sales act as a form of marketing)
-Market the system in a more mature/neutral way (something which isn't as challenging as you make out-just focus on the games  both 1st/3rd party/focus of the tech using slogans like ''most powerful console ever'' /and design the actual hardware to look sleek and modern. Use the same marketing channels that everyone else uses.

I would expect Nintendo do diversify they're portfolio and have Retro/other western devs deliver something like a Turoq reboot and more mature games big games. The sysem I'm proposing wouldn't have a ton of ''Uncharted/Halo/God Of War/Gran Turismo'' but Mario  >>> All of those franchise if we're being honest. What it would have which is far more important then playing tic for tac in regards 1st party Ips (something even sony has stopped trying) is the established mega selling and consistent 3rd party games people spend the majority of their time playing. Whatever the 3rd party franchise (Mass Effect 4, Elderscrolls 6, Battlefield next, GTA, Metal Gear Solid,  Final Fantasy, Assassins Creed etc), it should be on Nintendo's platform. Third parties like new hardware, especially ones that they can easily port to... even with the Wii U many gave it the benefit of the doubt in spite of its ill fitted hardware. All Nintendo actually needs to do to garunteed long term 3rd party support is not mess up.

The only thing that will be a genuine issue imo is Nintendo being competetive/taken seriously in the online space, but thats fine. This is simply how I think they will grow not how they will convert the entire COD audience and go on to sell 100m systems. 


There are two main characteristics for any videogame consoles; ones that are overpriced compared to what competition is offering and ones that underpowered. All the 8th generation consoles fit both categories. It's really hard to justify the pricetags of the 3 consoles when the last generation ones have big libraries and they're going to sell you only sequels anyway.

When we look at the most mature games this generation so far, they're already on the Wii U, as it has Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.



Ei Kiinasti.

Eikä Japanisti.

Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

Nintendo games sell only on Nintendo system.

bdbdbd said:
jonathanalis said:
i dont think that will be an hybrid handheld/home console.
they will keep a home console and a handheld, but with same OS for easy porting.
arround 50% of the games will be shared, but each console will have their own exclusives.(the big hits will be exclusives: pokemon on handheld, 3d zelda on home console), all VC and indies will be shared.
powerwise, i wouldnt believe in something much more powerfull than ps4. 250 to 300$ at launch.(ps4 will last for at least more 10 years, developers will port for it even when ps5 is in, nintendo home console would benefit from it, if power was a issue for porting)
handheld somewhere between vita and wii U power, 150 to 200$.
date?2017


Just to point you out that Iwata talked about programming directly to hardware, meaning hardware compatibility and not OS,  and unified development, that specifically means no porting.

That's why Iwata mentions a unified architecture.

What Nintendo could do is, for example, launch a handheld with a low power AMD APU like Mullins with 2 or 4 low power AMD x86 cores and a 128 GCN GPU. And then, for its home console they could go again with AMD with 8 of those low power x86 cores and the equivalent of a 280X GPU part that's also based on the GCN architecture.

That way Nintendo could develop just one set of tools for both platforms, meaning that the devs would only have to learn them once, making the development of the games faster and with the option of launching them on both machines without the need of porting the games, just scaling down or up the assets.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

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JEMC said:
bdbdbd said:
jonathanalis said:
i dont think that will be an hybrid handheld/home console.
they will keep a home console and a handheld, but with same OS for easy porting.
arround 50% of the games will be shared, but each console will have their own exclusives.(the big hits will be exclusives: pokemon on handheld, 3d zelda on home console), all VC and indies will be shared.
powerwise, i wouldnt believe in something much more powerfull than ps4. 250 to 300$ at launch.(ps4 will last for at least more 10 years, developers will port for it even when ps5 is in, nintendo home console would benefit from it, if power was a issue for porting)
handheld somewhere between vita and wii U power, 150 to 200$.
date?2017


Just to point you out that Iwata talked about programming directly to hardware, meaning hardware compatibility and not OS,  and unified development, that specifically means no porting.

That's why Iwata mentions a unified architecture.

What Nintendo could do is, for example, launch a handheld with a low power AMD APU like Mullins with 2 or 4 low power AMD x86 cores and a 128 GCN GPU. And then, for its home console they could go again with AMD with 8 of those low power x86 cores and the equivalent of a 280X GPU part that's also based on the GCN architecture.

That way Nintendo could develop just one set of tools for both platforms, meaning that the devs would only have to learn them once, making the development of the games faster and with the option of launching them on both machines without the need of porting the games, just scaling down or up the assets.

I'm not sure that's enough, performance difference is pretty big.

I think if they're trying to go for 4-5TFLOPS console GPU (which would be pretty good since I think they'll stick to 1080p, upscalable to 4K, as opposed to MSony which will most likely go for anamorphic 2160p), IMO, they would need at least equivalent of iPad Air 2 or nVidia Shield Tablet if they want to make development for both systems scalable enough, even if they opt for 540p screen - which is not really out of reach considering that Shield is $300 with 8" 1200p resolution screen and that nVidia has just recently shown Tegra X1 with around twice the performance, so by mid 2016 K1 equivalent hardware shouldn't be very expensive.



bdbdbd said:

There are two main characteristics for any videogame consoles; ones that are overpriced compared to what competition is offering and ones that underpowered. All the 8th generation consoles fit both categories. It's really hard to justify the pricetags of the 3 consoles when the last generation ones have big libraries and they're going to sell you only sequels anyway.

When we look at the most mature games this generation so far, they're already on the Wii U, as it has Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.

LMAO well I see no lies here

The above however makes no sense to me. PS4/X1 are the future of gaming, its not hard to justify there reasonable 399 price when they play superior versions of all of the games released this holiday/most of the games over the last 12month and have had majors exclusives over their predecessor in the last 12month (Halo MMC/Forza 5/Sunset OD/DeadRising/Killzone/Infamous/Driveclub), far better OS and social features and they are the only way to access 2015's major game line up (Dying light/Evolve/FFType/Witcher3/Batman/Devision/Starwars Battlefront/AC victory/The Order/Halo 5/Uncharted 4....) In terms of being underpowered, not in comparison to their competition (each other-PC is not direct comp), not respective to there price over their predecessors.



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pokoko said:
Mm. That's fine but does Nintendo have the technical expertise to pull that off in a positive way? For example, what if their combined OS ends up being okay for handhelds but well behind what Sony or Microsoft does with their home consoles? What if this combined approach just ends up holding back the potential of the "New Wii U/S-type" (my guess for the name of the next Nintendo console) from both a hardware and software perspective?

I'm not convinced they can do it.


They don't need an OS better or equal to MS/S. They need a functional OS. They need something that really shines and with enough potential to sell it.



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teigaga said:
bdbdbd said:

There are two main characteristics for any videogame consoles; ones that are overpriced compared to what competition is offering and ones that underpowered. All the 8th generation consoles fit both categories. It's really hard to justify the pricetags of the 3 consoles when the last generation ones have big libraries and they're going to sell you only sequels anyway.

When we look at the most mature games this generation so far, they're already on the Wii U, as it has Wii Fit U and Wii Sports Club.

LMAO well I see no lies here

The above however makes no sense to me. PS4/X1 are the future of gaming, its not hard to justify there reasonable 399 price when they play superior versions of all of the games released this holiday/most of the games over the last 12month and have had majors exclusives over their predecessor in the last 12month (Halo MMC/Forza 5/Sunset OD/DeadRising/Killzone/Infamous/Driveclub), far better OS and social features and they are the only way to access 2015's major game line up (Dying light/Evolve/FFType/Witcher3/Batman/Devision/Starwars Battlefront/AC victory/The Order/Halo 5/Uncharted 4....) In terms of being underpowered, not in comparison to their competition (each other-PC is not direct comp), not respective to there price over their predecessors.

If you agree with his last statement I can't take you seriously anymore.



HoloDust said:
JEMC said:

That's why Iwata mentions a unified architecture.

What Nintendo could do is, for example, launch a handheld with a low power AMD APU like Mullins with 2 or 4 low power AMD x86 cores and a 128 GCN GPU. And then, for its home console they could go again with AMD with 8 of those low power x86 cores and the equivalent of a 280X GPU part that's also based on the GCN architecture.

That way Nintendo could develop just one set of tools for both platforms, meaning that the devs would only have to learn them once, making the development of the games faster and with the option of launching them on both machines without the need of porting the games, just scaling down or up the assets.

I'm not sure that's enough, performance difference is pretty big.

I think if they're trying to go for 4-5TFLOPS console GPU (which would be pretty good since I think they'll stick to 1080p, upscalable to 4K, as opposed to MSony which will most likely go for anamorphic 2160p), IMO, they would need at least equivalent of iPad Air 2 or nVidia Shield Tablet if they want to make development for both systems scalable enough, even if they opt for 540p screen - which is not really out of reach considering that Shield is $300 with 8" 1200p resolution screen and that nVidia has just recently shown Tegra X1 with around twice the performance, so by mid 2016 K1 equivalent hardware shouldn't be very expensive.

Oh, don't take the numbers as what I think will happen. 128 GCN fro GPU and 4 CPU cores is what the current Mullins APU has, which is why I used it as an example.

If Nintendo is smart and uses AMD, which is the most likely scenario, they'll go with their next gen of APUs that hopefully will use their Pirate Islands GPU architecture (more efficient, something that Nintendo likes) and hopefully also a Zen based CPU part.

Alternatively, they could go with an ARM processor for both machines, but given that devs are struggling with the Jaguar processors of the PS4/X1, I don't want to imagine how pissed they'd be with Nintendo.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

They need to hit on many cylinders for the next console.

I don't mind innovative controllers, but my god it needs to have at least two - the crazy new one and a traditional one! Give developers options out of the box. It must be included in the base system. I'm not bashing it, but the fact one of the most popular games (SSB) plays best using a ten year old controller should be raising execs eyebrows at Nintendo.

The fusion idea is cool, but if its at the expense of making it top end hardware I wouldn't do it - it wont know what to do with itself, consumers will largely ignore it, and will be an outdated hardware gimmick asap.

The system needs to be high end and be x86, it is just way easier to develop for and if it ever has a chance to grab robust 3rd party support this is the platform it must be. You can develop games faster using this tech as well. Plus the life cycle should last longer.

Most important - at launch of this new system:
MARKETING. Call it NES7 or NESHD. Something simple yet something gamers can relate to. Wii U sounds like a Tyco toy. Current marketing is a joke. Didn't they shut down the SF office that used to handle this? Give it a wicked NES/SNES look to the console box.

Nintendo Network along with Miiverse need to mature like PS+/XBOX Live. $50 a year for online service. Its an industry standard now. customers wont mind as long as it delivers. I am sure they can make it parent and kid friendly. Must be ready at launch.

GAMES! They need to be online ready.

Mario, with co-op modes.

A racing game, maybe F-zero with some great online play. Save Mario Kart for a year later.

Maybe a cool open world Pilotwings with 25 simultaneous players on a server instance etc. flying around, parachuting etc.

Maybe have Virtual Console built in to the network like PS Now. It could be a separate subscription, but should be included at first to hook users. Maybe make old NES and SNES games co-op playable with others online.

My point is, expand Nintendo Franchises with some serious online roots. VC would be a great enhancement to past games. Also, I often wonder what Nintendo could do with a top end machine. People forget Gamecube was a beast for its time. Look at Zelda already. Imagine if they had PS4 resources available?

You want to grab market share and gamers overall. Put out a system where the consensus is its top end powerful, has a traditional controller, and a motion controller. Oh yeah, and its releasing with several awesome Nintendo games that are totally fun to play online or off. Most PS4 and Xbox one gamers will tell you in a heartbeat they would be all over that.

My only fear is UHD is right around the corner. 2017 might be a blackhole between 1080p and 2160p in terms of what hardware is available at what price during this time. It could be where PS5 is coming a year later and is UHD etc. Not good.




I wonder if fusing a handheld with a console could effectively save the japanese home console struggle.