spemanig said:
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forget the "versions of the same game thing". two platforms, each with their own DIFFERENT games.
spemanig said:
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forget the "versions of the same game thing". two platforms, each with their own DIFFERENT games.
| Materia-Blade said: forget the "versions of the same game thing". two platforms, each with their own DIFFERENT games. |
Yeah, that's a bad idea. The whole reason they are unifying the playform, one platform, is to stop software droughts. That literally can happen if they just do the same thing they are doing now. One platform. Two systems wo access the same games. More games being made because there's less time being spent on two different games doing the same thing on two separate systems like with Smash 3DS/Wii U or Mario Kart 7/8 or Super Mario 3D Land/World or Returns 3D/Tropical Freeze, or NSMB2/U. I just named 10 games that are effectively the same 5 games made twice, yet if they do what they've been saying they'll do, there'd be 10 completely different games playable on both platforms made in the same amout of time. It could instead be Smash 5, Mario Kart 9, Super Mario 3D World 2, Returns 2, NSMB3, Kid Icarus 2, Diddy Kong Racing Returns, Super Mario Universe, Donkey Kong Planet, and 2D Metroid released on BOTH systems in the same amount of time, with exclusive content for some of them depending on which system you're playing it on, like street pass functions for the hand held.
In what way is that not preferable?
you have to imagine that if and when Nintendo combines their handheld and console into one super-unit they will be fairly dominant. a console with a controller that works as secondary handheld and is capable of running the same game. that would be a killer combination
Hardware needs to be more competitive. Wii U at its price is not competitive, neither is 3DS. Considering that they'll want both to share architectures, either they'll both be very gimmicky, or both will have minimal gimmicks. Luckily, graphics technology is advancing at a rapid pace, so Nintendo could do something better than the position they were in as they developed Wii U. Ditch PowerPC and Backwards Compatibility for Wii U, that's not important now. Use an 8 core ARMv8-A CPU (preferably Cortex A-57, but it'll probably be an A-53 unfortunately) 2-3 TF GPU from AMD, 12GB RAM (maybe some of their games will be small enough with their impressive compression technology that they could load entire games on the RAM), 64MB of embedded SRAM (eDRAM may not be feasible, and they really like having off-side fast memory, so let's assume they'll have that). 2-3 TF may not be a huge jump from PS4, but it'll likely be a more modern architecture, so it'll also be more efficient, and more capable. The handheld should sport a downclocked console CPU, with 4 cores instead (same architecture), a GPU based on the same architecture, less power, but designed for a mobile device (like many of AMD's "M" series mobile GPU), 2GB of RAM (from DSi to 3DS was from 16MB to 128MB, so if we use that pattern, it'll be 8 times the previous updated model, New 3DS has 256MB, so 2GB minimum is what we could expect.) Maybe more if they use different kind of RAM (LPDDR4 maybe?).
Regarding software,I still feel that missing out on each system having its own Mario Kart, Super Mario 3D et, will drastically reduce their revenues not just on software, but hardware as well. Having the EXACT same game run on both devices will not be as good as having separate games tailored to each system. Just look at Smash Bros, although the 3DS version will be the biggest seller, the Wii U one is selling pretty well for a game on a life-support system. Do people honestly think that having one Smash Bros. 4 would have given them the same profit as having two separate ones? They'd be missing out on the double-dippers, since it's likely that most Smash Bros. Wii U owners have the 3DS game. If anything Smash Bros. 4 is the way to go with software on their next systems. Otherwise, if you had either the handheld or console, what would be the incentive in buying the one you don't own? Fans will buy both, but the rest of the people wont follow suit as easily, each needs to have a good reason to buy, and having games the other system doesn't have is the beat thing they can do. Still have Mario Kart 9 on both, each with its own courses, its own exclusive modes and content, but also have exclusive games tailored to each console. Super Mario 4D Land for 4DS, Super Mario Universe for Nintendo GX (yes, the name of GameCube and Wii's API...maybe will launch with a successor to F-Zero GX ;) ). They can share assets of each other to make development much easier and faster. But don't make it so Mario Kart and such run on both systems and are released at the same time, with the exact same content, thats not a good idea. Different content, different appeals, etc. Plus, it'll give them time to make other games as well, since they'll be sharing assets between then.
spemanig said:
In what way is that not preferable? |
if you think those pairs of games listed are "the same game made twice", you don't understand the subject. the two hardwares will share the same architeture, wich will allow software to be developed faster. therefore, we'll get more games in the same amount of time.
| Materia-Blade said: if you think those pairs of games listed are "the same game made twice", you don't understand the subject. the two hardwares will share the same architeture, wich will allow software to be developed faster. therefore, we'll get more games in the same amount of time. |
They absolutely are the same game made twice. If the Wii U and 3DS both had Mario Kart 7, there would be literally no reason for Nintendo to have made Mario Kart 8 so soon after, meaning the team could have worked on a different game.
It's not a shared architecture that allows for less software droughts. It's less time and need for porting. They waste so much developement time because they need to support two completely different libraries. With one platform in the same vein as iOS and Android, which they've said they're doing, they will have all the software they would have had split in half between two separate libraries now all under one library. Because that naturally eliminates the need for duplicate games like the ones I've mentioned, which only mirror each other so that both system can have similar games, they can spend the time and effore that would have been wasted on duplicate games making entirely new games, with the added bonus of having access to console hardware and simply scaling the games down on the handheld.
If that was happening this generation, that would mean that right now Wii U library would include every games that came out on the 3DS, every duplicate game would be an entirely new game, and there would be a new VC game for every VC game that was made for both.
THAT is why there would be more games in less time.
spemanig said:
It's not a shared architecture that allows for less software droughts. It's less time and need for porting. They waste so much developement time because they need to support two completely different libraries. With one platform in the same vein as iOS and Android, which they've said they're doing, they will have all the software they would have had split in half between two separate libraries now all under one library. Because that naturally eliminates the need for duplicate games like the ones I've mentioned, which only mirror each other so that both system can have similar games, they can spend the time and effore that would have been wasted on duplicate games making entirely new games, with the added bonus of having access to console hardware and simply scaling the games down on the handheld. If that was happening this generation, that would mean that right now Wii U library would include every games that came out on the 3DS, every duplicate game would be an entirely new game, and there would be a new VC game for every VC game that was made for both. THAT is why there would be more games in less time. |
wii u and 3ds shouldn't both have mario kart 7, different consoles are meant to have different games. smash bros for wii u and 3ds is ONE exception, it should never be the rule.
shared architeture allows for faster development and, as a consequence, less software droughts.
and stop calling those titles "duplicate games", because they aren't.
"If that was happening this generation, that would mean that right now Wii U library would include every games that came out on the 3DS"
No, that would mean wii u wouldn't have a library of it's own, wich means less of an incentive to buy the system.
| Materia-Blade said: wii u and 3ds shouldn't both have mario kart 7, different consoles are meant to have different games. smash bros for wii u and 3ds is ONE exception, it should never be the rule. shared architeture allows for faster development and, as a consequence, less software droughts. and stop calling those titles "duplicate games", because they aren't. "If that was happening this generation, that would mean that right now Wii U library would include every games that came out on the 3DS" No, that would mean wii u wouldn't have a library of it's own, wich means less of an incentive to buy the system. |
Why? Why are they meant to have different games? Look at Nintendo's examples. iOS. Many people have both an iPhone and an iPad, and they have access to all the same apps. Does that stop them from getting both? No, it encourages them, because they know they can use them for different things. They specifically used these as examples of how they want their next platform to work. They literally said that they want the NN to be the iOS of gaming. They literally said that their next platform will not be hardware, but Nintendo Network. They literally said that the two systems would work like brothers. You're covering your ears, not wanting to hear the truth, but Nintendo themselves are contradicting you.
They are duplicate games. Mario Kart 8 is Mario Kart 7 on a home console. The only reason Mario Kart 8 exists is because Mario Kart 7 isn't on the Wii U. That's the same with each game I mentioned.
No, it would mean that the Wii U would have an exponencially larger library at the same HD quality in the same amount of time, giving people far more incentive to buy it. "No library of its own" doesn't make any sense. In that case, the iPad has "no library of its own" yet they sell millions in hardware and iOS sells billions in software. With a shared library, the console isn't the focus, it's the network. You take your NNID and say "I want to play my NNID games on my TV. Guess I need the console." or "I want to play my NNID games on the go. Guess I need the hand held."
That's why they said that their next platform, and they specifically focused on the platform, could potencially house more than the standard two form factors. That is because the old way of developing made it impossible to work on more than two without stretching themselves thin in software. With only one platform, the Nintendo Network, to make games on, they could have 1,000,000 different Nintendo console "form factors" launched every day for the next 20 years, and never have software droughts.
Is that clear?
Nothing wrong there. Nintendo has signalled that they want separate handhelds and consoles still, but at the same time that they want them to be cross-compatible and scalable. Smash 3DS/Smash Wii U seems to lead the way in that regard, and could prove a model for future major Nintendo releases, a scaled-down version and a scaled-up version, but the same game in almost every other respect, depending on if you want it on the go or at home. This addresses their internal problem with needing to support two platforms, leading to a feast-or-famine setup that seems to harm new platforms exceptionally.
The external problem (3rd party support) will remain tricky, of course. They can keep Japanese devs on the handheld for another gen, perhaps, and then use the scalability to get overflow support for their home console (which works for franchises like Monster Hunter, say, since Westerners prefer the console version), but i really think there's nothing Nintendo can do to really get western third parties to bite. The solution is figuring out how to cover for that absence.

Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
| spemanig said:
They are duplicate games. Mario Kart 8 is Mario Kart 7 on a home console. The only reason Mario Kart 8 exists is because Mario Kart 7 isn't on the Wii U. That's the same with each game I mentioned. No, it would mean that the Wii U would have an exponencially larger library at the same HD quality in the same amount of time, giving people far more incentive to buy it. "No library of its own" doesn't make any sense. In that case, the iPad has "no library of its own" yet they sell millions in hardware and iOS sells billions in software. With a shared library, the console isn't the focus, it's the network. You take your NNID and say "I want to play my NNID games on my TV. Guess I need the console." or "I want to play my NNID games on the go. Guess I need the hand held." That's why they said that their next platform, and they specifically focused on the platform, could potencially house more than the standard two form factors. That is because the old way of developing made it impossible to work on more than two without stretching themselves thin in software. With only one platform, the Nintendo Network, to make games on, they could have 1,000,000 different Nintendo console "form factors" launched every day for the next 20 years, and never have software droughts. Is that clear? |
Nintendo didn't say any of those things. they specifically said they wanted the same architeture for future consoles and used IOS/ANDROID as examples of DIFFERENT platfoms with the same ARCHITETURE and operational system.
mario kart 8 is mario kart 7 as much as it is super mario kart. totally different games.
But it's clear this conversation isn't going anywhere.