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Forums - Gaming - In Theory: Nintendo's next-gen hardware - and the strategy behind it

RolStoppable said:
HoloDust said:
I'm really looking forward to see if they can pull off both third-party friendly console architecture that is scalable enough for their next handheld - which will be quite a task, if they decide to pursue that path.

Considering that next gen PS and XBox are expected to have around (current tech) 15TFLOPS GPUs, IMO, Nintendo can't go under at least 5TFLOPS if they expect 3rd parties to relatively easily port their games - and that would, again IMO, call for handheld that is at least as powerful as iPad Air 2 or nVidia Shield Tablet (or maybe even more).

Needless to say, in this scenario, both console and handheld would be fairly expensive for Nintendo's design philosophy, so I'm more inclined to believe that we will see less powerful hardware, and most likely again lack of 3rd party support.

Honestly, I'm hoping I'm dead wrong and they eventually manage to make something that is scalable, yet powerful enough for 3rd parties.

Not sure why multiplatform games should be a concern when:

1. They don't move Nintendo hardware.
2. Quite a few third parties outright dismiss development for a Nintendo system, regardless of specs.

Which basically means that lack of third party support on some level is always a given.


1.They don't move hardware because they're not successful on Nintendo systems, often because Nintendo's sysrems are ill suited to the software in the firstplace. Theres a quite a strong correlation between the success of Nintendo's systems and the success 3rd parties have seen on it. NES, SNES, N64 all owned some of there success to 3rd parties. 

2.When has this been the case (Bethesda)? I think if you read down the line it often comes down to specs. When Nintendo offers a system like the Wii U which is more or less a souped up 360 but an akward 360 (PowerPC+weak CPU), what does that speak of the audience they are going to attract on the system? Do you really think an Elderscrolls fan would pick up the game for a Wii U over a PS4, or even purchase a Wii U in the first place? why support the system when at launch it has a weak userbase by default but a year down the line it will be obsolete from a tech perspective and expensive to port to?

PS4 and X1 present themselves as longterm investments. Any the support the Wii U recieved was down to good faith, very few devs had any reason to touch it outside of assuming it would replicate the wii's success. Every major publishers released content on the wii (activision, EA, Bethesda, Take 2). Inate 3rd Party bias towards Nintendo is not a real issue, Nintendo's disalignment to 3rd parties however is.



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Materia-Blade said:

"we don't expect to see the firm releasing the exact same games on both systems; rather we expect to see titles similar to its existing efforts, tailored and refined for each audience - just with a common architectural underpinning that makes behind-the-scenes development that much faster."

Totally agree with this. they will just make software development faster.

I disagree with them there. I think they will absolutly release the same software on two different platforms, but the software will have have hardware exclusive features to incentivize owning both systems.



teigaga said:
I've been thinking about Nintendo's next console a lot recently,

...


-Price tag: $449 at launch, $349 by the time X2/PS5 arrives.

Even Sony and Microsoft have realized that launching a console that expensive is bad for their business. So no, Nintendo is not that stupid.



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teigaga said:


1.They don't move hardware because they're not successful on Nintendo systems, often because Nintendo's sysrems are ill suited to the software in the firstplace. Theres a quite a strong correlation between the success of Nintendo's systems and the success 3rd parties have seen on it. NES, SNES, N64 all owned some of there success to 3rd parties. 

2.When has this been the case (Bethesda)? I think if you read down the line it often comes down to specs. When Nintendo offers a system like the Wii U which is more or less a souped up 360 but an akward 360 (PowerPC+weak CPU), what does that speak of the audience they are going to attract on the system? Do you really think an Elderscrolls fan would pick up the game for a Wii U over a PS4, or even purchase a Wii U in the first place? why support the system when at launch it has a weak userbase by default but a year down the line it will be obsolete from a tech perspective and expensive to port to?

PS4 and X1 present themselves as longterm investments. Any the support the Wii U recieved was down to good faith, very few devs had any reason to touch it outside of assuming it would replicate the wii's success. Every major publishers released content on the wii (activision, EA, Bethesda, Take 2). Inate 3rd Party bias towards Nintendo is not a real issue, Nintendo's disalignment to 3rd parties however is.


That's one of the problems with articles like this. They put the focus on one aspect of a problem when really there are many factors. For example, branding and software is just as much of a 3rd party hinderence as lack luster hardware.

Until Nintendo changes it's brand from the "family" brand to the "gaming" brand, Nintendo consoles will always struggle to get games not marketed at families. Nintendo consoles will never struggle to get games like Ghostly adventures or Sonic, because Nintendo has branded themselves as the consoles to expect them. Wii U is a family friendly, cute-sy name. All of that contradicts what a brand like Playstation or Xbox carries. The Wii U and it's accessories look like toys. The PS4, XBO, and their accessories look like peices of cutting edge technology. All of that is important to getting third parties. When someone goes to buy a gaming console for something like The Witcher 3, they're going to be looking for hardware that looks, sounds, and feels like it would run it. The Wii U does not do any of that, even before taking specs into account. If the Gamepad looked more like a Vita, it wouldn't look as unappealing to that audience. It looks like a fisher price toy when the Vita looks like bleeding edge tech. (That's also why the Vita's branding doesn't work. The Vita brands itself incorrectly for the market it's in, just like the Wii U does)

Until Nintendo starts making software in house that matches the 3rd party software they are trying to attain, they won't get it. Until a Playstation guy sees a Nintendo game than can replace Uncharted or God of War for them, there's absolutely no way they'll make the jump, and if those guys aren't buying Nintendo hardware, there will be no one to buy the similar software that appeals to them. If Nintendo can't secure western-style exclusives, they won't get western-style 3rd party support, which is the majority. It's great that Nintendo are melding their dev studios onto one place, but they need to expand and get more first party western studios and they NEED to get those studios working on first party IPs that target the PSXB audience directly. Retro isn't even close to enough. They need an answer to Killer Instinct, and Pokken Tournament isn't it. They need an answer to Halo and Destiny. They need an answer to Uncharted, and Infamous, and God of War. Without exclusive games that cater to that audience, those 3rd party games will never come.

I'm excited for the potencial that the new hardware may bring, but Nintendo needs to consider many more factors than just that if they want to get 3rd party back. And it doesn't even need to be 100% equal to PS or XB, but it needs to be at least 80%, and they need to have first party suppliments for whatever's missing. Who care's if they don't have the next Elder Scrolls game when they have Zelda, Metroid, Xenoblade, and hopefully some new western open world IP? That's what they need to get people thinking.



RolStoppable said:

The only reason why a PlayStation or Xbox gamer would choose a console from another company is if their current company of choice commits a major blunder; and if such a scenario plays out for real, then the first option for substitution would be Xbox (if PlayStation messes up) or PS (if Xbox messes up).

Essentially, if Nintendo were to meet all arbitrary third party requirements and hypothetically got all of the games, they would still be running a strategy that relies on both Sony and Microsoft messing up big time. That's by no means a good strategy because it will depend on what other companies do.

Regarding image, Nintendo's is created by their competitors. As long as Nintendo keeps making games starring characters like Mario and Pokémon, they will be stuck with an image that is not favorable when it comes to marketing to mainstream gamers.


I disagree. They don't need to stop making Mario. That need to start making Uncharted. (in a matter of speaking, obviously)



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RolStoppable said:

Did you know that during the N64 era Nintendo had a game that was more awesome than Uncharted and sold more units than Sony's IP? Do you also remember what Nintendo's image was?


Yeah. The guys still made cartridge games instead of using modern CDs with a console that looked like a toy box. They still got better 3rd party suppport than the Wii U and GCN got. Like I said in another post, there's more than one factor that contributes to Nintendo's crappy third party support. In that era, it was branding and hardware.



JEMC said:

teigaga said:
I've been thinking about Nintendo's next console a lot recently,

...


-Price tag: $449 at launch, $349 by the time X2/PS5 arrives.

Even Sony and Microsoft have realized that launching a console that expensive is bad for their business. So no, Nintendo is not that stupid.

Well it wouldn't be stupid.

The Xbox was selling better at $500 then it was when its price dropped to $400, the PS3 at $600 was outselling the 360 $399. Theres obviously more to those numbers then I'm letting on but the point is systems can sell  at prices above $399, pressure to be below that pricetag comes from competiton of which Nintendo will have none. You're right realistically Nintendo will not sell there system for that much, but I think they could get away with it and it would be more profitable for them then $399 and benefit them in the longrun if they used that pricetag to beef up specs. Just my feelings on it but I don't think sonys next console will be less then $499.



RolStoppable said:

What are you even talking about? You disagreed with my point about how mainstream gamers view Nintendo, but now you argue something else.


I'm not arguing something else. You said "As long as Nintendo keeps making games starring characters like Mario and Pokémon, they will be stuck with an image that is not favorable when it comes to marketing to mainstream gamers." I said they don't need to stop making games like Mario, they need to start making games like Uncharted. You said "Did you know that during the N64 era Nintendo had a game that was more awesome than Uncharted and sold more units than Sony's IP? Do you also remember what Nintendo's image was?" I said that their image was effected by more than just their software. Branding, hardware, and the lack of 3rd party support that resulted from them.



nintendo shouldnt go x86, arm and powerpc are cheaper, x86 just shines in the high end sector. ps4 and xbone will have a realy short lifespan cuz of this. and the other thing is, they would be forced to use amd, for both and amd cpus are crap...

and the big 3rd party companys will not come back, they arent gone because the wii u tech is bad, they are gone because they dont want to compete with nintendo, broken games dont sale good on nintendo consoles...



teigaga said:

Well it wouldn't be stupid.

The Xbox was selling better at $500 then it was when its price dropped to $400, the PS3 at $600 was outselling the 360 $399. Theres obviously more to those numbers then I'm letting on but the point is systems can sell  at prices above $399, pressure to be below that pricetag comes from competiton of which Nintendo will have none. You're right realistically Nintendo will not sell there system for that much, but I think they could get away with it and it would be more profitable for them then $399 and benefit them in the longrun if they used that pricetag to beef up specs. Just my feelings on it but I don't think sonys next console will be less then $499.


Lmao, where did you get any of those stats? A $450 Nintendo console would be a tombstone for them. $400 is the sweet spot, and I struggle to believe that they would make it more than $300.