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Forums - Nintendo - Bayonetta 2 Debut Sales in Japan are 7x Higher than The Wonderful 101

thelalaby on 28 September 2014
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:
lol Bayonetta 2 is one of the biggest flops in recent memory in Japan... 

Uh, no.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/71439/killzone-mercenary/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/57654/resistance-burning-skies/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/75667/kagero-darkside-princess/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/76990/gundam-breaker/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/77889/dragon-ball-z-battle-of-z/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72209/the-wonderful-101/Japan/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/72210/sonic-lost-world/Japan/

LOL KIllzone and Resistance are spin-off shooters, and shooters are not at all popular in Japan. Gundam Breaker is also available on PS3 where it sold well, so taking the sales of the Vita version in isolation is misleading, especially since it was released months after the PS3 version and was a mere port basically. The others have performed disasterously though, but you forget that Bayo 2 is the sequel to a game that sold 300k+ in Japan, unlike the likes of Kagero, for example.

And this does not contradict my point at all... I did say that Bayo 2 is ONE of the biggest flops in recent memory, and that is totally true. The examples you have provided do not add anything new at all, if anything but to show that you are willing to provide misleading examples to spin Bayo 2's numbers into something less horrific than they actually are.

And frankly, I would personally add Tropical Freeze to your list... it is a game that barely sold 10% of what its predecessor sold, and has failed to even reach half the sales that the 3DS port of Tropical Freeze sold, so that is a pretty massive flop imo.

Your comment was entirely lacking in perspective. If you actually look at the numbers, it is nowhere near "one of the biggest flops in recent memory".


The perspective is there, you just don't want to see it.

Bayo 2 has sold a pathetic amount of what the original managed to do so far, and yet you choose to reply by giving me links to PS3 ports released on Vita and shooters released in Japan. You can comfort yourself with misleading information all you want, but that does not change the fact that Nintendo will not be making any money off the game's release in Japan, and that the franchise's popularity has plummetted rather painfully with this installment.

I personally don't remember a franchise that decreased so much in popularity with the release of its sequel, especially when the first installment was loved and sold decently too (300k in Japan, a number the sequel will never even sell 30% of).



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curl-6 on 28 September 2014
thelalaby said:

The perspective is there, you just don't want to see it.

Bayo 2 has sold a pathetic amount of what the original managed to do so far, and yet you choose to reply by giving me links to PS3 ports released on Vita and shooters released in Japan. You can comfort yourself with misleading information all you want, but that does not change the fact that Nintendo will not be making any money off the game's release in Japan, and that the franchise's popularity has plummetted rather painfully with this installment.

I personally don't remember a franchise that decreased so much in popularity with the release of its sequel, especially when the first installment was loved and sold decently too (300k in Japan, a number the sequel will never even sell 30% of).

When there are games selling 2-5k first week, saying a game that sells 39k first week "one of the biggest flops is recent memory" is nothing but sensationalist hyperbole.



thelalaby on 28 September 2014
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:

The perspective is there, you just don't want to see it.

Bayo 2 has sold a pathetic amount of what the original managed to do so far, and yet you choose to reply by giving me links to PS3 ports released on Vita and shooters released in Japan. You can comfort yourself with misleading information all you want, but that does not change the fact that Nintendo will not be making any money off the game's release in Japan, and that the franchise's popularity has plummetted rather painfully with this installment.

I personally don't remember a franchise that decreased so much in popularity with the release of its sequel, especially when the first installment was loved and sold decently too (300k in Japan, a number the sequel will never even sell 30% of).

When there are games selling 2-5k first week, saying a game that sells 39k first week "one of the biggest flops is recent memory" is nothing but sensationalist hyperbole.

But you are ignoring all of the facts surrounding this launch, which means that you are simply choosing not to accept this for what it is. This is not a new IP, a port or a niche release... it is the SEQUEL to an established brand, and its predecessor sold 300k in Japan. By taking those FACTS into account, it becomes apparent this debut is disappointing on every possible level.

Once again, I implore you to give me an example of a sequel that dropped so much from the sales of its predecessor, on the same level as Bayo 2. If it is not so outrageous, then give me a proper example.



curl-6 on 28 September 2014
thelalaby said:

But you are ignoring all of the facts surrounding this launch, which means that you are simply choosing not to accept this for what it is. This is not a new IP, a port or a niche release... it is the SEQUEL to an established brand, and its predecessor sold 300k in Japan. By taking those FACTS into account, it becomes apparent this debut is disappointing on every possible level.

Once again, I implore you to give me an example of a sequel that dropped so much from the sales of its predecessor, on the same level as Bayo 2. If it is not so outrageous, then give me a proper example.

You can move the goalposts and put up as many arbitrary guidelines as you want, the numbers simply do not support your claim.



thelalaby on 28 September 2014
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:

But you are ignoring all of the facts surrounding this launch, which means that you are simply choosing not to accept this for what it is. This is not a new IP, a port or a niche release... it is the SEQUEL to an established brand, and its predecessor sold 300k in Japan. By taking those FACTS into account, it becomes apparent this debut is disappointing on every possible level.

Once again, I implore you to give me an example of a sequel that dropped so much from the sales of its predecessor, on the same level as Bayo 2. If it is not so outrageous, then give me a proper example.

You can move the goalposts and put up as many arbitrary guidelines as you want, the numbers simply do not support your claim.

lol you are repeating the same things and completely ignoring my questions, while failing to provide any substantial arguments or anything that even relates to the facts and numbers I am providing. Suit yourself though, we don't have to continue this discussion considering that you are obviously trying to run away from it.



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curl-6 on 28 September 2014
thelalaby said:
curl-6 said:

You can move the goalposts and put up as many arbitrary guidelines as you want, the numbers simply do not support your claim.

lol you are repeating the same things and completely ignoring my questions, while failing to provide any substantial arguments or anything that even relates to the facts and numbers I am providing. Suit yourself though, we don't have to continue this discussion considering that you are obviously trying to run away from it.

You specifically said "one of the biggest flops in recent memory", and when there are games selling 1/8th to 1/19th of its first week, calling it "one if the biggest" is clearly a ridiculous statement.



thelalaby on 28 September 2014
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:
curl-6 said:

You can move the goalposts and put up as many arbitrary guidelines as you want, the numbers simply do not support your claim.

lol you are repeating the same things and completely ignoring my questions, while failing to provide any substantial arguments or anything that even relates to the facts and numbers I am providing. Suit yourself though, we don't have to continue this discussion considering that you are obviously trying to run away from it.

You specifically said "one of the biggest flops in recent memory", and when there are games selling 1/8th to 1/19th of its first week, calling it "one if the biggest" is clearly a ridiculous statement.


Are any of those games selling 1/8th to 1/19th of its first week sequels to established IPs in Japan? Because you are completely ignoring this essential fact. I'd like to know.



FATALITY on 28 September 2014

bayo 2 is a flop period. this franchise is probably dead. move on jeez



”The environment where PlayStation wins is best for this industry” (Jack Tretton, 2009)

curl-6 on 28 September 2014
thelalaby said:

Are any of those games selling 1/8th to 1/19th of its first week sequels to established IPs in Japan? Because you are completely ignoring this essential fact. I'd like to know.

It doesn't matter. You put no such restrictions on your claim. You didn't say "biggest flops in recent memory for a sequel to an established IP", you just said "one of the biggest flops".

Even if you restrict it to established IPs, you still have Dragon Ball and Gundam, both popular properties, performing worse.



lord_of_flood on 28 September 2014
thelalaby said:
curl-6 said:
thelalaby said:

The perspective is there, you just don't want to see it.

Bayo 2 has sold a pathetic amount of what the original managed to do so far, and yet you choose to reply by giving me links to PS3 ports released on Vita and shooters released in Japan. You can comfort yourself with misleading information all you want, but that does not change the fact that Nintendo will not be making any money off the game's release in Japan, and that the franchise's popularity has plummetted rather painfully with this installment.

I personally don't remember a franchise that decreased so much in popularity with the release of its sequel, especially when the first installment was loved and sold decently too (300k in Japan, a number the sequel will never even sell 30% of).

When there are games selling 2-5k first week, saying a game that sells 39k first week "one of the biggest flops is recent memory" is nothing but sensationalist hyperbole.

But you are ignoring all of the facts surrounding this launch, which means that you are simply choosing not to accept this for what it is. This is not a new IP, a port or a niche release... it is the SEQUEL to an established brand, and its predecessor sold 300k in Japan. By taking those FACTS into account, it becomes apparent this debut is disappointing on every possible level.

Once again, I implore you to give me an example of a sequel that dropped so much from the sales of its predecessor, on the same level as Bayo 2. If it is not so outrageous, then give me a proper example.

Donkey Kong Country Returns to Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. The original sold over a million units in Japan last time I checked. DKC:TF has barely broken 100k thus far and had an opening week even worse than Bayonetta 2's (36k opposed to Bayo 2's 39k, initial shipment sell-through was ~35% opposed to Bayo 2's ~67%).

I'm not going to say that Bayo 2's sales aren't horrible, but they're not nearly as bad as they could have been.



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