Slarvax said: I don't really get your point, so this is kinda off topic. The closest real time pokemon is PokePark, so I suggest that you look for that :D
Actually, Rumble Blast is a real-time pokemon, but it is not an RPG, its linear.
My point is that the design priority of Pokemon as a franchise, with the games as part of that, is to sell merchandise, so much so that it has prevented them from making any changes that supports something else.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
StarOcean said: I dont see any real point to this thread..? I mean it looks like youre complaining and then you arent but then you understand why they do it so... I dont know. It seems you may have gone off track a bit :p
Anyway, main series Pokemon needs to stay turn-based. The way the system and mechanics work and how they would have to change in order for it to be in RT would piss off a large chunk of the fanbase. This is especially true now that it is one of the few big RPGs that still use it (Persona and Dragon Quest being other notable mentions). Most games are ARPGs and while some like it, I'd like to have a few franchises stay turn based since that is my preferred style of gameplay, Im not alone in that opinion either.
I could see a large sub-series go RT combat. I think it'd work best with a system similar to Ni No Kuni's if they ever did do RT.
I have never suggested that this change would apply in the mainline, only in the spinoffs. SInce they have already done real-time battle system with pokemon in a spinoff before. I am suggesting that the GameFreak only makes spinoffs when exploring new avenues to expand the influence of the pokemon franchise, and not develop the gameplay in exploring different types of battle systems.
The entire first part of the OP was a disclamer to dissuade any allegations of complaining. That's why I say this is only an Observation, and I make no judgements about any of this. My problem isn't preventing me from purchasing the games, it is just a contrast of philosophies, I just want to see how a pokemon RPG would look like with this change in battle system, GameFreak wants to sell merchandise. That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. And since GameFreak has control of the IP, then they decide how it is developed.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
spemanig said: There's probably some truth there. Though I thing it goes both ways. The merchandise is meant to sell the games.
I do think you're underestimating how difficult it would be to make a full-blown Pokémon action game though. The attack animations in the "Stadium" games wouldn't work for an action game. Also, you need a unique attack animation for every single Pokémon using every single one of their moves. I want it to happen too, but I think there are far more understandable reasons than just money for why it hasn't happened yet.
This is not true, this is only if you want to make custom animations for each pokemon.
Consider Hydropump on all 3 evolutions of Squirtle. Putting a bounding box on the blast of water allows for collision detection, its box must intersect the box of the target its going to hit or it misses. Considering Squirtle, Wartortle, and Blastoise are all different sizes, then what you can do is simply scale the animations of the attack accordingly. Even if you wanted to use 2 pumps for Blastoise, then you can simply use one box and clone another animation to create that effect. Its fairly simple. Hell you can even do it programmably, Squirtle being 1, Wartortle being 1.5, Blastoise being 3. Hydropump being set at 2 would mean that, it would be multiplied by .5 for squirtle, .75 for wartortle, and 1.5 for Blastoise.
And Yes, the amount of work increases with the amount of Pokemon, but that is part of the reason GameFreak want's people to collect them. More pokemon = more to collect. Less pokemon to work with real-time battle system prioritizes that over collectable merchandise.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
Pokemon's turn-based combat is the good the way it is, thank you very much!
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
Disclaimer: Let me get this out of the way first because I can guarantee that someone is going to read the title and immeadeatly respond.
I hate turn based battle systems: False. In order my favorite mario games are Melee, Paper Mario, and TTYD.
Excuses will be made for GameFreak, but honestly these are easily dismissed, lets go over a few:
It will change the nature of Pokemon: their have been Pokemon Spinoffs since Pokemon Snap, many of which have completely different systems and gameplay entirely, their is no reason for a real-time spinoff to some how change pokemon.
Just sayin
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
JWeinCom said: I really don't get what this is trying to say. You're saying that the Pokemon games exist to sell merchandise, but then you point out examples of how the game encourages you to collect things in game. The only Pokemon game that actually requires you to buy merchandise is Rumble. I'm sure Nintendo likes to sell merchandise, but nothing you've said really shows any abnormal or devious advertising methods. Most of what you mentioned is simply good game design that encourages people to play the game.
There is a major difference between "exist" and "design". Not to mention Game Freak controls the IP just as much as if not more then Nintendo. Whether something is "good" design or "bad" design doesn't really have any bearing on what I'm saying. Just that the games as part of the franchise, is prioritizes collection over everything else, and while the mainline can be argued as simply "not broke don't fix it", the design of the spinoffs, which typically have meta critics of 60-70, and various other game play changes are clearly designed to sell merchandise or more generally the franchise. They could have easily been a realtime pokemon rpg by now. As I showed with the Collesium example, we are well behind the point that its technically difficult let alone infeasible.
Thus it stands to reason, that the reason GameFreak, haven't made a spin off like that, is because they do not want to. Simply because they have different priorities.
"My Problem with Pokemonis that it is designed to sell merchandise."
I don't get what you're saying. Is your problem that they're trying to sell merchandise, or that you collect stuff in game.
"various other game play changes are clearly designed to sell merchandise or more generally the franchise. "
Uhhhhh... well, yeah... they're trying to sell games in the franchise... That's kind of the point of making games...
"My Problem with Pokemonis that it is designed to sell merchandise."
I don't get what you're saying. Is your problem that they're trying to sell merchandise, or that you collect stuff in game.
What I'm saying is that that priority is what drives the majority of decisions surrounding the franchise, and specificially the development of the games. For example, the decision to increase the number of pokemon, creates more merchandise and adds more longevity to each of the following games. However, increasing the amount of pokemon makes it much harder to change the base system even in a spinoff "which is the only thing I am suggesting". Spemanig touched on this point, when you have 150 pokemon its alot more feasible then say 719 pokemon to make a realtime system at all.
"various other game play changes are clearly designed to sell merchandise or more generally the franchise. "
Uhhhhh... well, yeah... they're trying to sell games in the franchise... That's kind of the point of making games...
There are multiple reasons for making games. And selling games is only a portion of merchandise, which refers to everything that is sold as a pokemon product.
Not to mention, that is no reason for a real time pokemon RPG to not be developed. You not only have no evidence that it wouldn't sell, but the variety of pokemon mods and the size of the fanbase would suggest that some people would buy it. So it is not enough, at least for GameFreak, that the game would sell itself alone.
There is a difference in how Skylanders is designed versus how Call of Duty is designed, and the aspect of collection in the games, the anime, the movies, even the motto of pokemon supports that.
The difference in philosophies between what GameFreak wants and I want don't neccessarily contradict, but go in different directions. That difference is the problem I have with Pokemon.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
JWeinCom said: I really don't get what this is trying to say.
Agree.
JWeinCom said: Most of what you mentioned is simply good game design that encourages people to play the game.
Also agree. Almost every game existing encourages you to play it. Pokémon is no different in that regard.
You need to read the OP completely, because this is a very complicated topic that cannot be understood by simply skim over it.
The fact of the matter is that
1. this is not an evaluation of the quality of the game design, only an observation that the priorty in the entire pokemon franchise is to sell merchandise. The best analog would be skylanders, which sells itself as a game but also prioritizes the merchandise it sells. This is entirely different from Zelda which prioritize the gameplay and the story over merchandise. This doesn't mean it zelda themed merchandise isn't sold because of it, but that the priority in its development is secondary to gameplay and story.
2. The excuse "Almost every game exists to encourages to play it, means nothing with regard to my observation." If their was a pokemon RPG with realtime battle, would it not also encourage you to play it? That line of reasoning means nothing in considering why this is not the case now.
3. As I have outlined in the various examples I give, even the spinoffs which deviate from the base formula still prioritize the selling of merchandise to the extent that other aspects of the game are simply not as important or even forgoed completely as in the case of PokePark, Rumble, and Snap.
4. There is no reason for something like this:
to exist as a spin off and not have free movement with 4 moves mapped to buttons in an rpg setting on a home console, at least not if the reason is to sell the game.
In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank
