all I can say is that there was a 1.5 million adjustment to the 360 when ms said they sold 83 million 360s and ms did not answer sold to retail or customers, ms is good at that , but one week later vg made the adjustments. but sony says 10 million sold to customers and they say that's if sony is sure on those numbers , heck the uk was under tracked by 100,000 the last month maybe its the lost uk and Europe numbers.and ms has yet stated they sold 5 million to customers , and there at 5.1 million , a story came out stating that 5 million users used the upload feature , but has been changed to millions , meaning ms has not hit  5 million sold to customers.  y  adjust so fast to xbox but not to sony.  just like the 1st 5 months showed x1 beating sony in the usa but then it came out on npd that sony beat ms every week . numbers where adjusted for sony but not really for ms x1s numbers seem to high. i love this site i defendf it on n4g. but its just making vg look bad . vg should build on being trusted not making it go more and more untrusted.

If one of the scientists made a rough estimate based on extrapolation of data and knew that in some areas he was just outright guessing... and the other made a calculation with all the exact data he needed... ahem...

No you did not, but you brought up Samsung an about they lied, and Sony  could be telling a lie, but not once did you imply Vgchartz could be telling a lie. You made the very distinct point to point out Sony could be that they lied about the numbers.

My point if you just said all companies lie, that why you think that Vgchartz is not telling the truth also? No not once did you bring into question the Ethics of Vgchartz, as soon as you brought in ethics into question it brings up everyone's thus you can frame the argument how ever you want from this point.

People bringing into Questions about the company's out there not being truthfulness with the numbers, is also opens up the ones calling out Ethics onto themselves.

In this case, you may not look at it as you were not siding with VGchartz, but the fact you did not call out the tracking Data service here on its Ethics at all as "could be telling a Lie" sure does come into Question which side you are looking at it from.

Do you not see my side? My side is EVERYBODY is saying Sony is clearly right. I'm trying to show that that is not necessarily the case. Never did I imply VgChartz is 100% right.

I'm just sick and tired of nobody thinking VgChartz is guaranteed to be wrong and Sony is guaranteed to be right.

Except you have no basis whatsoever to call Sony's numbers into question. You might as well question the tracking of NPD, Microsoft, Nintendo, Apple, Google, Lockheed Martin, the European Union, and the United States goverment while your at it.

VGChartz is guaranteed to have less money, than Sony. It follows that they have less resources than Sony to make estimates. So under no circumstances can VGChartz make better estimates then Sony.

What this means is that if Sony has enough certainty in their estimations to say 10 million sold through publically and on a stage at a tradeshow and VGC tracking has a discrepancy, that only shows their is an issue with VGCs tracking.

The worst part of this whole stupid fiasco is, when Sony provides the numbers and ioi updates the charts, those arguing this silly idea that Sony's tracking is wrong are going to look exactly like other who have been proven wrong in similar circumstances, even calling into question NPD when VGC had a discrepancy, only to move goalposts when they eventually get proven wrong. When proven wrong, you will either dissapear or change goalposts, even though I'm flat out telling you you are wrong before hand and I'm explaining why.

Well let me ask you again, 
 You stated Sony is telling a lie about the numbers! You again brought in Ethics about the company in Question, when you do that it also brings into Questions about the person or people bringing into Question about The Ethics of said people or company. That means you say you were for in a blunt term pointing out that Sony could be wrong, But again you stated is one of the reasons was they were lieing.

You brought in Ethics on the point but yet not on the side of Vgchartz also telling a Lie, so why not?

Is only Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony's Ethics at Question here? Thats my point you bringing it up was not showing "for everyone," it was to paint the Argument that Sony could be lieing, but not anyone else until I just pointed it out to you.

Then one may be considered 'more accurate' which is certainly the case here by most in this thread. But you can't just adjust numbers if they don't fit with your methods. They need to find the numbers and adjust their methods for future reference. This is assuming that Sony has the methods to accurately track every PS4 sold through to consumers. I'm not sure how they do that though. It's a very messy business.

About VGC being close to 3rd parties is just so wrong it doesn't make sense. They are close "cumulatively" because they correct their data anytime NPD posts (being wrong more than 20%wrong in the month before correction) leaving it within 5%. For Jp it is the average of famitsu and md. Europe they correct by gfk. So if you were to take all these corrections they would be quite off individually, but maybe closer on sum.
But the other markets they have almost 0 data, they just assume numbers based on psn acc and there are people questioning Sony having more data. They have all the 80+M psn accounts and 100% digital sales. Activation of system and patch, IP tracing, shipping and all else. This kind of argument doesn't hold water.
Sony could lie? Yes, but since this info could influence market value they would be sued. Why take this risk for a few 100k's?

Aren't we talking about the same VGChartz that regularly, almost constantly, has to adjust their numbers in light of other sources releasing more accurate figures? The assumption that VGChartz is wrong might stem from the fact that they're pretty consistently wrong, and between 'them just still being wrong' and 'Sony is lying about sales figures with little to gain, and plenty to lose,' it seems like a vastly safer bet to assume that the site is just continuing to do with the site has always done, and be wrong. O.o That isn't even necessarily a bad thing, given they don't seem to have the same reach, and access to data, as even the NPD for the U.S, let alone international markets. 

But that very same thing could be said about Vgchartz.

This is assuming that Vgchartz has the methods to accurately track every PS4 sold through to consumers.

Or

Insert NPD, chart track. Etc

"If Sony's numbers are to be believed" 

Or 

If Vgchartz numbers are to be believed