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Forums - Gaming - Is shrinking market size all that bad?

 

What do you think?

Yes. The Market needs to Shrink 27 32.93%
 
No, The Market needs to Grow 39 47.56%
 
results 16 19.51%
 
Total:82
fatslob-:O said:
Yes a shrinking market is bad no matter how anyone spins it ... Having less customers isn't exactly a good thing.

But we get rid of those people. Which I understood from last generation is a desirable thing.



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noname2200 said:

But we get rid of those people. Which I understood from last generation is a desirable thing.

*sarcasm detected*

LOL



Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

This is an issue of diversity though.

As of now, the AA market doesn't even exist anymore. Only a handful of the largest games are even succeeding anymore. The resurgence of indies is obvioulsy because of the lack of diversity in the industry.

Also, niche market's aren't so generic that you could qualify it as hardcore niche market.

Armored Core is also a hardcore niche franchise made by From, and it is completely different from and appeal to a completely different crowd from Dark Souls.

The majority of those who bought Dark Souls, bought it because of Demon Souls, putting it on a different but larger marketshare platform would have drastically reduced its performance at worst, and marginally reduced it at best because the fanbase is still dedicated, but it would hardly in crease it despite the fact that you're going from 80mil to 100+ mil even if the game was good.

You are going to need to back up your point that diversity is shrinking due to increased market size. Theoretically, diversity would increase due to a better ability sustain niche markets....

Additionally, Dark Souls sold about 2.8 million compared to Demon Souls' 1.7 million due to an increased market size. I don't understand what you are trying to argue there.

Once again, we agree about the problems in the gaming industry, but we disagree on the reasons why. I believe that it is mostly due to development philosophies (everybody wants the biggest slice of cake so they ignore everything else), and you seem to believe that for some reason, a bigger market share makes companies make less diverse games...

@A few other people: Eliminating games like Carnival Games wouldn't necessarily benefit gamers. Look at the list of titles WayForward has made for some evidence on that point...



 

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Last Gen was the biggest in terms of console sales, 260 million from the previous 190 million of the prior generation.

And yet many people claim that their favorite generations were the earlier 3,4, or 5th generations.

Sure, many more people became gamers and gaming as a hobby became a lot more mainstream and acceptable.

Furthermore, Gaming garnered a greater focus and budgets skyrocketed, but is this really such a good thing?

With a growing market and more money being pumped into the industry, we have more risk on developers, and instead of these larger budgets giving us more innovation, diversity is actually decreasing. Games are being designed to appeal to as many people as possible rather than making as good an experience for those who actually like the genre, and gaming is stagnating as a whole.

Perhaps a downsizing and a refocus is actually what we need.

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Well, this is a Gamer Centric view. And growth isn't always good, these ballooning budget size an mass appeal low substances games are akin to tumors.

A healthy market is a lot better than a bloated one, and refocusing I thinking will make the market more healthy.


This is where I got confuse on you OP (and it seems a few others). What you mean by "mass appeal" is not the same as appealing to an untapped population to expand the market. I think what you are saying about "mass appeal and growing market size causing stagnation" has little to do with the exapansion of the gamers population. 

They are not increasing budget on these AAA games to expand the videogame market, but to expand thier userbase/fanbase. They are doing it to tap into an already existing market. For example GTA, does little to expand the market. It taps into those who played the prevous GTA games, CoD/BF gamers, Sports/Madden/FIFA, etc. but not the smart device gamers and those who had little interest in games.

With a shrinking market, audience diversity either stagnates or decreases. I think there are two main answers to a shinking market in-order for companies to stay afloat. The first is to do the same tried and proven approach. The second is to take risk to expand the market. Unfortunately, tried and proven is what most will do. This mean developers will focus their money on what they know will work, rather than taking large risk on unique games. So, yes, a shrinking market is usually bad.

 





I think that the market shrinking in terms of number of gamers is good for traditional console gaming and PC gaming. Someone said that with a bigger market you would think there would be more diversity. That isn't necessarily the case. That is because as the market grows publishers chase what will sell the most and streamline their games more and more and take fewer risks. I think with the possibility of the market shrinking, gaming can return to its roots and be more true to itself and move on from there.



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It wont make much of a difference in software sales. At least half of the people that buy consoles are casuals that only buy 2 or 3 games all generation. And that goes for Sony and Microsoft too. Not just Nintendo. Casual gamers are all caught up in the mobile boom right now. Hardware will be significantly smaller this gen, but software will stay fairly close to where it was.




8th gen predictions. (made early 2014)
PS4: 60-65m
WiiU: 30-35m
X1: 30-35m
3DS: 80-85m
PSV: 15-20m

JEMC said:

With a smaller market, what will happen is that either publishers invest less in the games, opting for either less games but as big as they are now (AAAs) or as many games but with smaller budgets (so worse graphics and/or smaller worlds, maybe even shorter). Whatever the choice they make, we lose.

You're just imagining the worst cases.

Lets say, for sake of example, we went from 260mill last gen to 200 mill this gen with PS4 80-100, XB1 50-70, and Wii U 30-50.

Last Gen: 260 million

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 X360 2011 Shooter Activision 8.73 4.12 0.13 1.28 14.25
4 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 PS3 2011 Shooter Activision 5.38 5.52 0.49 1.49 12.88
25 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 PC 2011 Shooter Activision 0.38 0.93 0.00 0.32 1.63
39 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 Wii 2011 Shooter Activision 0.48 0.18 0.00 0.07 0.73

 (despite most marketshare)

29.49 million LTD an attach rate of about 11%

On a smaller market of 200, COD has less consumers to tailer for and can make the game itself better.

For a market of 200 million, all it would need was a 22% attach rate to meet the sales of a market 30% bigger than it.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

nomad said:

 

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Last Gen was the biggest in terms of console sales, 260 million from the previous 190 million of the prior generation.

And yet many people claim that their favorite generations were the earlier 3,4, or 5th generations.

Sure, many more people became gamers and gaming as a hobby became a lot more mainstream and acceptable.

Furthermore, Gaming garnered a greater focus and budgets skyrocketed, but is this really such a good thing?

With a growing market and more money being pumped into the industry, we have more risk on developers, and instead of these larger budgets giving us more innovation, diversity is actually decreasing. Games are being designed to appeal to as many people as possible rather than making as good an experience for those who actually like the genre, and gaming is stagnating as a whole.

Perhaps a downsizing and a refocus is actually what we need.

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

Well, this is a Gamer Centric view. And growth isn't always good, these ballooning budget size an mass appeal low substances games are akin to tumors.

A healthy market is a lot better than a bloated one, and refocusing I thinking will make the market more healthy.


This is where I got confuse on you OP (and it seems a few others). What you mean by "mass appeal" is not the same as appealing to an untapped population to expand the market. I think what you are saying about "mass appeal and growing market size causing stagnation" has little to do with the exapansion of the gamers population. 

They are not increasing budget on these AAA games to expand the videogame market, but to expand thier userbase/fanbase. They are doing it to tap into an already existing market. For example GTA, does little to expand the market. It taps into those who played the prevous GTA games, CoD/BF gamers, Sports/Madden/FIFA, etc. but not the smart device gamers and those who had little interest in games.

With a shrinking market, audience diversity either stagnates or decreases. I think there are two main answers to a shinking market in-order for companies to stay afloat. The first is to do the same tried and proven approach. The second is to take risk to expand the market. Unfortunately, tried and proven is what most will do. This mean developers will focus their money on what they know will work, rather than taking large risk on unique games. So, yes, a shrinking market is usually bad.

This is what I'm trying to suggest, focusing a larger less focused based at the cost of a smaller more dedicated base. At its extreme, this is like mobile vs console i.e 60 million users for 1$ game and 1 million users for a 60$ game. For sake of argument lets say the cost is completly indicative of the budget and the budget is completely representative of the quality. They both make the exact same amount of money theoretically, but it will be much harder for a 1$ game to have 60 million users than a 60$ game to have 1 million users



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

We can also look at it this way:

Imagine Gen 7 ending in 2015 at a totaL of 280 million, up from 200 million in Gen 6. That is an average growth of 4% per year over Gen 6 (not entirely accurate since generations cross each other somewhat, but it gives a hint). That isn´t a huge growth, but actually quite reasonable.

If the market would start to experience contraction, money will start to pour out of the industry causing more studios to stop making games for the traditional consoles. This will also start a downward spiral in the general publics view of the industry, causing even bigger declines in sales.

I Think an average growth of 2% per year over previous generations should be acceptable enough to maintain a steady industry.



If you think this is has an easy answer, then you clearly are overlooking some things. This is an extremely difficult question.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank