By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo currently has $4.7 billion in the bank

aikohualda said:
NobleTeam360 said:
4.7 billion? That's not really a lot for a company like Nintendo.

a $4.7 M money reserve? yes it is....

Not imo. 



Around the Network
NobleTeam360 said:
aikohualda said:
NobleTeam360 said:
4.7 billion? That's not really a lot for a company like Nintendo.

a $4.7 M money reserve? yes it is....

Not imo. 


Yes it is, just compare with other companys.

Activision/Blizzard for example. Activision only has 5,6B as total current assets and only 4,2B as cash. Even less than Nintendo, despite Call of Duty, World of Warcraft and Skylanders success.

 

Cash alone means nothing, and stationary money = loss for the stock holder.



Skidonti said:
Fusioncode said:
Nintendo spent 6 billion in two years?

I'm going to parrot myself a lot in this thread...

Investments. Cash in the bank gets you some return, but if there are better investments elsewhere it's wise to spend the money and gain some short term assets.

Why are you assuming Nintendo had zero short term investments in 2012? It's unreasonable to believe that all of the money they've invested into it was apart of the $10 billion they had in reserve.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

vkaraujo said:


Yes it is, just compare with other companys.

Activision/Blizzard for example. Activision only has 5,6B as total current assets and only 4,2B as cash. Even less than Nintendo, despite Call of Duty, World of Warcraft and Skylanders success.

 

Cash alone means nothing, and stationary money = loss for the stock holder.

Did you miss the part where I said IMO?



outlawauron said:
Skidonti said:
Fusioncode said:
Nintendo spent 6 billion in two years?

I'm going to parrot myself a lot in this thread...

Investments. Cash in the bank gets you some return, but if there are better investments elsewhere it's wise to spend the money and gain some short term assets.

Why are you assuming Nintendo had zero short term investments in 2012? It's unreasonable to believe that all of the money they've invested into it was apart of the $10 billion they had in reserve.

What is being pointed is that they had a little more than 10B in current assets in 2012 and now they have 10B. If it is in cash, short term investments or stock, they still have around the same amount of cash, but in different forms. Since they didn't sold any long-term assets (buildings or IPs), than they are about the same.

Maybe they have more liabilities, but i can't say without the 2012/2013 balance sheet.



Around the Network
vkaraujo said:
outlawauron said:

Why are you assuming Nintendo had zero short term investments in 2012? It's unreasonable to believe that all of the money they've invested into it was apart of the $10 billion they had in reserve.

What is being pointed is that they had a little more than 10B in current assets in 2012 and now they have 10B. If it is in cash, short term investments or stock, they still have around the same amount of cash, but in different forms. Since they didn't sold any long-term assets (buildings or IPs), than they are about the same.

Maybe they have more liabilities, but i can't say without the 2012/2013 balance sheet.

That's not what the article said at all. Instead of reading articles, I just pulled financial reports: 2012 and 2014.

It looks like Nintendo is clarifying their assets and separating things to be more clear with their newer reports. They've lost a good chunk of money in the recent years, but not a disasterious amount.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

MDMAlliance said:
MoHasanie said:

There was a Forbes article a few months ago that valued the Xbox division at $23 billion so it must have some very expensive assets. 


I don't know if $23b means that's how much the assets are worth, but how much the whole division would cost if they were to buy it.  I'm pretty sure that a division is worth more than the assets they own.  Right?

That specific evaluation of the Xbox divsion was done Bloomberg and Wedbush and had nothing to do with the Xbox divsion assets.  

It was in fact based on a simple 'revenue multiple' calculation using Nintendo's own numbers as a base.  Below is the quote from Bloomberg:

Ballmer’s retirement as chief executive officer may clear the way for a potential spinoff of the Xbox unit to unlock shareholder value. While a consumer success with $7 billion in annual sales, it’s one of Microsoft’s lower-margin divisions and doesn’t drive sales of the company’s core business services and software. Xbox may be worth at least $17 billion on its own, based onNintendo Co. (7974)’s revenue multiple, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Its value should be even higher given that Nintendo has operating losses, Wedbush Inc. said.

Below are some negatives about using multiples from wikipedia:

There are a number of criticisms levied against multiples, but in the main these can be summarised as:

  • Simplistic: A multiple is a distillation of a great deal of information into a single number or series of numbers. By combining many value drivers into a point estimate, multiples may make it difficult to disaggregate the effect of different drivers, such as growth, on value. The danger is that this encourages simplistic – and possibly erroneous – interpretation.[3]
  • Static: A multiple represents a snapshot of where a firm is at a point in time, but fails to capture the dynamic and ever-evolving nature of business and competition.
  • Difficulties in comparisons: Multiples are primarily used to make comparisons of relative value. But comparing multiples is an exacting art form, because there are so many reasons that multiples can differ, not all of which relate to true differences in value. For example, different accounting policies can result in diverging multiples for otherwise identical operating businesses.
  • Dependence on correctly valued peers: The use of multiples only reveals patterns in relative values, not absolute values such as those obtained from discounted cash flow valuations. If the peer group as a whole is incorrectly valued (such as may happen during a stock market "bubble") then the resulting multiples will also be misvalued.
  • Short-term: Multiples are based on historic data or near-term forecasts. Valuations base on multiples will therefore fail to capture differences in projected performance over the longer term, and will have difficulty correctly valuing cyclical industries unless somewhat subjective normalization adjustements are made.


Baalzamon said:

For those looking for the in between numbers, here you go (in Yen, with some rounding done for my calculations):

  2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
Current Assets 1.59T 1.47T 1.14T 1.19T 1.02T
Total Assets 1.76T 1.67T 1.37T 1.45T 1.31T
Current Liabilities 407.54B 333.3B 155.44B 194.48B 155.65B
Total Liabilities 424.4B 352.44B 177.38B 220.36B 187.97B
Total Assets less Liabilities 1.34T 1.32T 1.19T 1.23T 1.12T
3/31 Exchange Rate .0108 .0121 .0122 .0106 .0097
Effective Total Assets less Liabilities in Dollars 14.47B 15.97B 14.52B 13.04B 10.86B

The company really isn't in a bad position. The main reason their cash is so much lower in US dollars is nothing other than the exchange rate.

Excluding exchange rate (looking solely at Yen) that is still a 17% drop in effective assets minus liabilities since 2010 (effectively the company has shrunk 17%), which is a large drop for a company that until a few years ago had never made a loss. Most of that loss has been since 2011. Definitely not 'Nintendo is broke' territory, but it's concerning. 



outlawauron said:
vkaraujo said:
outlawauron said:

Why are you assuming Nintendo had zero short term investments in 2012? It's unreasonable to believe that all of the money they've invested into it was apart of the $10 billion they had in reserve.

What is being pointed is that they had a little more than 10B in current assets in 2012 and now they have 10B. If it is in cash, short term investments or stock, they still have around the same amount of cash, but in different forms. Since they didn't sold any long-term assets (buildings or IPs), than they are about the same.

Maybe they have more liabilities, but i can't say without the 2012/2013 balance sheet.

That's not what the article said at all. Instead of reading articles, I just pulled financial reports: 2012 and 2014.

It looks like Nintendo is clarifying their assets and separating things to be more clear with their newer reports. They've lost a good chunk of money in the recent years, but a disasterious amount.

I see, against 2011 indeed. Against 2012 they still lost something, but not that much.

 

Total assets: ¥1,368,401 (2012) against  ¥1,306,410 (2014)

Current Assets: ¥1,140,786 (2012) against ¥1,024,136 (2014)

Liabilities: ¥177,376 (2012) against ¥187,971 (2014)

 

In Yen the fall doesn't look that big to be honest, maybe in U$ the exchange rate is affecting the perception

They are losing money, no point arguing over that.



foxtail said:
MDMAlliance said:
MoHasanie said:

There was a Forbes article a few months ago that valued the Xbox division at $23 billion so it must have some very expensive assets. 


I don't know if $23b means that's how much the assets are worth, but how much the whole division would cost if they were to buy it.  I'm pretty sure that a division is worth more than the assets they own.  Right?

That specific evaluation of the Xbox divsion was done Bloomberg and Wedbush and had nothing to do with the Xbox divsion assets.  

It was in fact based on a simple 'revenue multiple' calculation using Nintendo's own numbers as a base.  Below is the quote from Bloomberg:

Ballmer’s retirement as chief executive officer may clear the way for a potential spinoff of the Xbox unit to unlock shareholder value. While a consumer success with $7 billion in annual sales, it’s one of Microsoft’s lower-margin divisions and doesn’t drive sales of the company’s core business services and software. Xbox may be worth at least $17 billion on its own, based onNintendo Co. (7974)’s revenue multiple, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Its value should be even higher given that Nintendo has operating losses, Wedbush Inc. said.

Below are some negatives about using multiples from wikipedia:

There are a number of criticisms levied against multiples, but in the main these can be summarised as:

  • Simplistic: A multiple is a distillation of a great deal of information into a single number or series of numbers. By combining many value drivers into a point estimate, multiples may make it difficult to disaggregate the effect of different drivers, such as growth, on value. The danger is that this encourages simplistic – and possibly erroneous – interpretation.[3]
  • Static: A multiple represents a snapshot of where a firm is at a point in time, but fails to capture the dynamic and ever-evolving nature of business and competition.
  • Difficulties in comparisons: Multiples are primarily used to make comparisons of relative value. But comparing multiples is an exacting art form, because there are so many reasons that multiples can differ, not all of which relate to true differences in value. For example, different accounting policies can result in diverging multiples for otherwise identical operating businesses.
  • Dependence on correctly valued peers: The use of multiples only reveals patterns in relative values, not absolute values such as those obtained from discounted cash flow valuations. If the peer group as a whole is incorrectly valued (such as may happen during a stock market "bubble") then the resulting multiples will also be misvalued.
  • Short-term: Multiples are based on historic data or near-term forecasts. Valuations base on multiples will therefore fail to capture differences in projected performance over the longer term, and will have difficulty correctly valuing cyclical industries unless somewhat subjective normalization adjustements are made.


So basically you're confirming that the value provided up there isn't necessarily based on assets but an analysis on how much Xbox might be worth based off of Nintendo's "multiples"?