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Forums - Nintendo - Zelda U graphics

 

Which looks better

Tech demo 2011 382 29.09%
 
E3 2014 928 70.68%
 
Total:1,310
mZuzek said:
Arius Dion said:

But fulfilling ones own creative itch at the expense of a larger fanbase is extremely arrogant and the epitome of selfishness and vanity. What is unique about this Aonuma and his artstyles at this point? He's used this anime style way more than the high fantasy style of OoT, TP and the E3 Tech demo. This goof has been the reason for Zelda's decline of excellence. Tell me which game has this dude made that has been held in as high regard by critics and gamers a like from the first four Zelda's? Spirit Tracks? WW? SS? MM? 

The artstyle is just the icing on the why Aonuma is lame and doesn't belong in charge of Zelda. I'm telling you, just as WWHD has been a bomb, and as SS flopped, this next Zelda will do as bad as SS in market performance. Zelda games aren't what they used to be at all. They are damn near unrecognizable to fans of the 4 pre Aonuma Zelda's. 

Glad you like his games, but for the rest of us..try to understand where we are coming from.

Well, just starting by taking this out of the way... there were actually 5 Zelda games prior to Aonuma taking charge. Unless of course, you mean 4 games before Aonuma being part of the dev team.

Also, please don't try to go into personal stuff you don't know about. I'm a fan of Zelda since I was a kid, my first Zelda game and up to this day 2nd favorite game in the series was A Link to the Past. It's not like I disregard non-Aonuma Zeldas.

Still, I believe Aonuma has brought Zelda to much higher standards. His games have upped the storytelling, dungeon designs, graphics and overall atmosphere by a lot. The quality of a game is not determined by how well it sells. To me, Zelda games are still what they used to be and are absolutely recognizable to fans of pre aonuma Zeldas (in other words, myself), while still being better and unique.

Also, I find it funny that you criticize Aonuma's Zeldas, and when proceeding to criticizing his games, you criticize all of the home console ones apart from Twilight Princess (which, crazy enough, is in your avatar). This obviously shows how close-minded you are when talking about Zelda. The only Zelda games you accept are the extremely traditional ones, and you can't stand change.

Recent Zelda games have been spectacular. Spirit Tracks, Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker and Skyward Sword (the games you just "criticized) are all masterpieces when you're open to what they offer. They are by no means traditional Zelda experiences, and that is one of the main reasons why they're so good. Do you wish every new Zelda game was just Ocarina of Time with better graphics, bigger worlds and new dungeons? This would make the series extremely repetitive and I am sure would lead to decreased sales after some time. A lot of the reason why realistic Zeldas sell better is because these people who only like the traditional ones have to wait so long between one and another. If this was the only approach to Zelda, it would have become VERY stale.


Far be it from me to question your gaming tastes, but I'll have to disagree. I disliked MM,WW and SS, ashame I'm not sophisticated enough to have enjoyed them. Twilight Princess was the only Zelda from him that I didn't think was totally lame. Still had lameness in it though. Not sure what personal stuff you are talking about, just my opinion. Oh well. I counted 4 Console Zelda's that are pre Aonuma taking the reigns; LOZ, LOZ 2, ALttP, OoT. My avitar is actually from Brawl, with the Link that didn't look like a powerpuff girl, but a bad ass swordsman. The kind of guy Link used to be before he started resembling a female.

I think Aonuma's approach is the very reason Zelda has become stale. You talk as if Zelda is in a healthy place, its not. Decline is every where within this once beloved series. Again, if you like his games, more power to you. But to look at data in the face and still act as if Zelda is better off since he's been in charge..That's just not true. Aonuma has lost more Zelda fans than he's gained.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

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curl-6 said:
Zero999 said:

the only people who though that was cgi were the ones used to ps360 graphics. and the zelda for wii u far surpasses the tech demo anyway.

It has a broader scope than the tech demo, but at the cost of simplified lighting and textures.

there's nothing simple on what we've seen.



Zero999 said:
curl-6 said:
Zero999 said:

the only people who though that was cgi were the ones used to ps360 graphics. and the zelda for wii u far surpasses the tech demo anyway.

It has a broader scope than the tech demo, but at the cost of simplified lighting and textures.

there's nothing simple on what we've seen.

Not on its own merits, but compared to the more complex textures and shaders of the 2011 demo...



mZuzek said:
Arius Dion said:

Far be it from me to question your gaming tastes, but I'll have to disagree. I disliked MM,WW and SS, ashame I'm not sophisticated enough to have enjoyed them. Twilight Princess was the only Zelda from him that I didn't think was totally lame. Still had lameness in it though. Not sure what personal stuff you are talking about, just my opinion. Oh well. I counted 4 Console Zelda's that are pre Aonuma taking the reigns; LOZ, LOZ 2, ALttP, OoT. My avitar is actually from Brawl, with the Link that didn't look like a powerpuff girl, but a bad ass swordsman. The kind of guy Link used to be before he started resembling a female.

I think Aonuma's approach is the very reason Zelda has become stale. You talk as if Zelda is in a healthy place, its not. Decline is every where within this once beloved series. Again, if you like his games, more power to you. But to look at data in the face and still act as if Zelda is better off since he's been in charge..That's just not true. Aonuma has lost more Zelda fans than he's gained.

Oh god...
Seriously, your opinion is not the ultimate truth, you know? "Look at data in the face", what's that all about? You didn't show any "data" as far as I'm concerned. You just kept saying how Aonuma is lame and his Zelda games are bad. I know that as OPINION, not "data".

And yes, there are 4 console Zeldas pre Aonuma, but you never specified the "console" part prior to this post. (And just saying, Adventure of Link is to this day regarded by most as the worst main series Zelda game) (and yes, I know that picture is from Brawl, but it features a Twilight Princess inspired Link and scenario)

Link has never been a "bad ass swordsman". Even in Twilight Princess he didn't have exactly the most "manly" look out there. Pretty much every Link ever has always either been goofy, kinda girly or just a kid. No Link has ever been a "bad ass swordsman", I'm sorry to say.

Again, you're just stating your own opinions as fact.
You believe Zelda is much worse off with him in charge, I believe it's much better. He has lost more Zelda fans than he has gained because he changed Zelda, and people don't like change - but believe it or not, change is good.

LoL, never been a bad ass swordsman, ok. You want data? quickly, name me the top 3 selling Zelda's ever.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

curl-6 said:
Zero999 said:
curl-6 said:

It has a broader scope than the tech demo, but at the cost of simplified lighting and textures.

there's nothing simple on what we've seen.

Not on its own merits, but compared to the more complex textures and shaders of the 2011 demo...

... it's better than the demo.



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mZuzek said:
When did I NOT say quality has nothing to do with sales?

The top 3 selling Zeldas ever are Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess and The Legend of Zelda. They were all your average traditional Zelda experience, and this is why they had more mass appeal. That's because people don't like change.

However, for those who actually embrace change, it's much easier to notice how much better games like The Wind Waker, Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword really were. They were not only very different from the traditional Zelda experience, they were also very different between themselves - this is a reason why very few people like them all.

These 3 games, however, are absolute masterpieces and Ocarina of Time is simply not as good as them.
Ocarina of Time's story, world, soundtrack and atmosphere was nowhere near the level of those other 3 games - also, it wasn't better than all of them when it came to dungeons and bosses. It's pacing was horrible, too.

It was a revolutionary game and changed the industry forever when it was made. It is probably the best Zelda game for its time and how it changed the gaming landscape. However, I believe it is simply not as good as later Zelda games. In fact, just as the first 2D Zelda game was nowhere near the level of the later 2D Zeldas, I think Ocarina of Time was nowhere near the level of the later 3D Zeldas.


It's not a matter of not wanting change, its a matter of what latter Zelda's changed into. The data is the data. The rest is well..You're talking personal opinion. All I can say is I'm glad Zelda meets your gaming standards. It no longer does for me.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Zero999 said:

... it's better than the demo.

In scale, absolutely. But as with any system, when you focus its rendering power on one room you get higher fidelity of individul assets than when you render an entire open landscape stretching as far as the horizon. You have to render far more assets, so less power can be spent on each one.



 

mZuzek said:
These 3 games, however, are absolute masterpieces and Ocarina of Time is simply not as good as them.

Hmm.  Interesting.

mZuzek said:

Ocarina of Time's story, world, soundtrack and atmosphere was nowhere near the level of those other 3 games - also, it wasn't better than all of them when it came to dungeons and bosses. It's pacing was horrible, too.

OoT Forest Temple or Wind Waker Wind Temple. Both atmosphere's and soundtracks of the temples.  HMMMMM! indeed.  Phantom Ganon or Plant thing.  Curiouser and curiouser.

mZuzek said:
In fact, just as the first 2D Zelda game was nowhere near the level of the later 2D Zeldas, I think Ocarina of Time was nowhere near the level of the later 3D Zeldas.

OG LoZ holds up pretty well against ALttP.



"You should be banned. Youre clearly flaming the president and even his brother who you know nothing about. Dont be such a partisan hack"

mZuzek said:
HoloDust said:

You are correct...and that's exactly the reason why Aonuma has to go (among many other things).

Zelda was originally made as western fantasy, and between 50-60% of sales (on home consoles) comes from NA alone - not paying enough attention to what that audience wants is sign of his (and current Nintendo's along with him) arrogance and vanity.


It's not arrogance and vanity, it's passion. He's making what he feels he wants to make, and it's making not only very unique, but also excellent games.

Passion is good. Occasional reality check is even better when you're making a product that needs to sell. If he wants to indulge his whims and make whatever he feels like making maybe he should go paint or write a book instead.

In the end, Aonuma can do whatever he likes, cause it's Nintendo's role to say no to him...unfortunately they are still behaving like overprotective parent with spoiled child.

Why is changing up the artstyle not being "western fantasy" anymore?

I wasn't talking about artstyle alone, though it is one of the key factors. It's Aounuma's meddling in general with what Zelda was and his insisting on 'his vision' that is moving it away from western audience and original fans.

This new Zelda, to me, looks exactly like the fantasy we've come to expect.

Not sure what fantasy that is anymore, considering they've changed that so many times, but it's sure not the fantasy of 2D Zeldas I grew up with or expected...nor do I think it's what people who loved OoT and TWP were expecting either.

Just because it has colors and personality doesn't mean it breaks from what Zelda is supposed to be.

I have no problem with colors, just like I have no problem with 2011 tech demo. I was pretty much expecting them not to make 2011 styled game, for more than one reason, some of them being technical, some of them being "Nintendo culture".

But Nintendo, knowing how bad WW was received (compared to OoT), how well TWP was and how SS was lacklustre after it (speaking sales wise), should've really payed a bit more attention as to what 'personality' they're exactly going after...I don't see making one more anime Zelda: A Link between the Genders really helping their case in western market.

It sure hinders the game's sales, but I don't care about sales when playing a game - I care about an enjoyable, unique, fun, and overall remarkable experience, and this has been delivered time and time again.

Maybe you don't care about sales, but Nintendo should most certainly care - and if 'semi-realistic', 'stylized-realism' or 'illustrated-realism', whatever we call it, is one of the reasons that gives Zelda titles chance to sell more, then, just maybe, they need to ponder on their choices bit harder next time.

As for remarkable experience every time - yeah, not so much, but that indeed does not depend of artstyle.

It's not like Zelda games bomb when not using semi-realistic graphics either. They sure sell less and get less hype from outsiders, but they still sell well enough. Also, at this point I don't think Nintendo is ever going to bring the "hardcores" to the Wii U anyways.

Who exactly are these "outsiders" and "hardcores"? Cause when first Zelda launched it was aimed at mainstream audience, and it was that audience that bought it, played it and loved it. In the meantime, mainstream audience has changed, but Nintendo fails to aknowledge this (for whatever reason).

Nintendo games and consoles are very obviously different from their competition, and this is how it's supposed to be. They want this uniqueness, they want to do different stuff - they don't want to be in a competition, they want to create new, interesting experiences. As long as they can still profit from this (and I believe they can), this is only going to keep making fans happy and the company healthy. Unless, of course, we're considering the "fans" who just want gritty, mass market appealing Zelda games.

Nintendo can do whatever they like, it's their prerogative as platform holder and IP owner.

Personally, though not my first choice, I'm fine with this artstyle (except for Link, that design is just terrible). Even with Aonuma at helm they've had my money for all these years, and I don't see that changing, if for nothing but my kids.

As for Zelda fans...it seems there are fewer and fewer of them as years pass by and Nintendo keeps ignoring them, whether it's artstyle or gameplay, and I don't see much of the new ones taking the place of old ones...hopefully this changes.



curl-6 said:
Zero999 said:

... it's better than the demo.

In scale, absolutely. But as with any system, when you focus its rendering power on one room you get higher fidelity of individul assets than when you render an entire open landscape stretching as far as the horizon. You have to render far more assets, so less power can be spent on each one.

I'm saying it looks better. even on a large scale, it's looking better than the one room from the demo.