oniyide said:
Soundwave said:
oniyide said:
Soundwave said:
RolStoppable said:
The bolded shows that I never implied what you talk about in the fourth paragraph. This isn't the first time in this thread that you are trying to misrepresent my position.
As for some of the Nintendo games you mentioned, yes, they had competitors emerge (Nintendogs and Brain Training). But Wii Sports and Wii Fit (especially Sports) haven't come under as heavy fire, and neither of them can be done on smartphones and tablets. That's the point you continue to ignore, because you believe in the casual games label that makes all games you don't like equal. The question that needs to be asked is if the Wii's potential was fully realized and hardly anyone would say that it was. It's not just simple and accessible games, it's simple and accessible games with a unique and appealing control scheme. That's what sets the Wii apart from other products, plus local multiplayer on the same screen.
And once again, Nintendo was counting on the Wii audience to buy a GameCube. That was their mistake. If they hadn't been so much in love with the GC, they would have realized that the Wii U Gamepad contradicted the appeal of the Wii.
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The problem is you've romanticized this notion to a degree that you can no longer see the actual market realities of today. I mean I get it, wasn't it wonderful that Nintendo had discovered this new magic formula that allowed them to have such tremendous success? It was sweet to watch Sony/MS sputter in response, surely it could've lasted longer? It's easy to take that and think of it as dogma, kind of like a guy who has success with a pick-up line once and then assumes that it should work on every girl, every time he tries it again.
Smartphones don't need to exactly mimic Wii Sports to get the same (actually larger) audience. In fact it's an asset that they don't, the casual audience wants new/different types of experiences, Angry Birds is successful because it's Angry Birds, not Bird Sports. The ecosystem offer by the smartphone/tablet business offers them a flood of constant new software. What smartphones/tablets DO ape (very successfully) from the Touch Generation/Wii line is the same basic foundation though of easy-to-play arcadey games that any casual or novice player can get into quickly. It's no coincidence either that most of the successful iPhone/Android games feature non-threatening cartoony/simple graphics (ahem right out of Nintendo's playbook), not realistic graphics of the Playstation/XBox ilk.
The novelty of the control input is less important, what's important is the control interface is suitably user friendly and intuitive. No button multitouch fits the bill as well (maybe even better) than waving a wand around. People don't want controller novelties for novelty sake alone, otherwise Nintendo would just introduce a dozen weird controllers like maybe a game machine that's controlled by bouncing a ball (which would likely flop). Consumers aren't *that* stupid, they would eventually see that strategy for what it is -- desperation.
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I agree with him that WIi Sports and Fit cant really be replicated on phones. But here is my question do people really care about them? no not anymore not in the numbers they used to put up. It seems like you said some people have romantized those games. Fact is people will and have become tired of them. IMHO motion gaming as well. The real question is is the audience for those games big enough anymore where a another actual Wii console (same thing as Wii but more powerful) would have been successful. I think no.
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That's the thing -- you don't need to replicate yesterdays hits ... you just need to come up with tomorrow's crazes. And smartphones/tablets are quite honestly eating the lunch of not just Nintendo but Sony/MS when it comes to that in a casual-appeal categorey.
What iOS/Android gaming does successfully ape from Nintendo's Touch Generations/Wii _____ line is the formula of easy to play games that are fun in short burts (not everyone is a core gamer that likes to play for 5 hours a day, some people just want to have a few minutes of fun), that are easy to play, and are inviting ... notice how most blockbuster game apps are colorful/simple graphics, not like Infinity Blade which tries to look like an XBox 360 game.
And I do get why there is some denial here from some Nintendo fans on this ... in a way it isn't fair. It's not fair that Nintendo found this wonderful secret and really they only got to enjoy it for a few years. Nintendo themselves is probably in a bit of deep shock over all this too ... how could things go from so good to so bad in just a few years seemingly? I think Iwata probably has driven himself to sickness in a way because of all this. It wasn't supposed to be this way, but that is part of what makes the game industry great -- there are no short cuts or magic formulas. You gotta work for what you get every cycle.
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tomorrow's crazes is easier said than done and that is the problem.
Thats just it though it wasnt a secret. At all, people knew about it, but as Rol said pulling it off is VERY hard to do which is why most dont even attempt. Hell alot of us called it years ago. We said that it wouldnt last forever hell it didnt even last the whole gen as the last Wii years it dropped like a rock, but we were labelled as haters. It isnt fair but not for the reasons you listed. It isnt fair because Ninty is in a place IMHO where they HAVE to chase the next blue ocean craze they cannot fight MS or Sony on the red ocean front they will lose time and time again. Nintendo as a brand, not Wii. is just not as popular as it used to be and it will never get that way again. I think thats where the true denial comes from. Wii gave some fans a false sense of security, yeah Ninty is back everyone loves them like we do. Here comes WIi U; yeah not really where right back to GC levels. Nintendo as a brand at least compared to SOny and a lesser extent MS is kinda niche. There is nothing wrong with that but the sooner fans understand that and stop the denial the happier they will be.
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The other thing I think people have trouble with is that the casual market that Nintendo really tapped into with Touch Generations/Wii is a very different market from the core/hardcore/teenager typical gaming market. They behave very differently.
I would say that market is more like the mainstream pop music industry or the fashion industry ... things are hot one moment and then they cool ... and they will cool no matter what because the whole name of the game is finding something else that's fresher/hipper/newer eventually.
It is a trend based market. Even Angry Birds ... now is kinda passe. It's on the downcycle of its popularity, Candy Crush and Flappy Bird are the new "hot sh*t" just like once upon a time that used to be Wii Sports and Guitar Hero. Today you can't even find a store that carries Guitar Hero, unless it's at the bottom of a used discount bin, just a few years ago it was a monster franchise.
It really is a remakarable if you think about it. Then you look at something like Grand Theft Auto ... I really thought 10 years ago that this franchise would be dead by now, but it's bigger than ever. Go figure.
Casual blockbuster IPs age like milk. Core/hardcore IPs age like fine wine provided you don't do stupid things with the quality of the sequels.