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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U hardware no longer sold at loss, apparently

Yakuzaice said:

What is the actual quote and its context?

Because in their financial statement they said

"The “Wii U” hardware still has a negative impact on Nintendo’s profits owing mainly to itsmarkdown in the United States and Europe"

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/pdf/2014/140507e.pdf


They are problably refering to marketing cost on the system. Like, if they made a loss of 10$ at each unit sold, they would need  to sell a game to break even on hardware manufacture cost and another one to conpensate marketing expenses. Now, if they manage to make a 10$ profit at each unit sold, the marketing expense got covered by this manafacture cost and they can make money from the games sold.



"Hardware design isn’t about making the most powerful thing you can.
Today most hardware design is left to other companies, but when you make hardware without taking into account the needs of the eventual software developers, you end up with bloated hardware full of pointless excess. From the outset one must consider design from both a hardware and software perspective."

Gunpei Yoko

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Mr Khan said:
Mummelmann said:

I made a decent guess at the very least. About time they got cost below sales price.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5774523

They still have limited leverage for price cuts though; I wonder if they'll accept going into the red again by slashing the price in Q4? They might have to if they want any momentum. Then again; from a business standpoint, profits trumphs a slightly increased installed base, so they might opt for keeping the price and focus more on bundles instead.

Depends on what they think they can get the attach rate too, i suppose. If they have confidence in the Q4 lineup, then perhaps they will. Or just extensively bundle instead like they've been doing.


Yeah, I guess we won't know for sure until Q4 comes. I'm pretty sure they'll increase focus on good online deals as well during that time and a MK + SSB bundle could do very well. They should be careful about extensive bundling though, they are essentially giving away their games for "free" and this is bound to eat up profits as well. I think we should expect one more FY of losses before the numbers turn black again, especially if they're currently doing as much R&D as I think they are with new platform(s) and the QoL extension/third pillar.

For my part; I'm hoping for a decent MK bundle at a lowered price next year since I have two generations of Nintendo 1st parties to collect (I never got a Wii).



Pavolink said:
Asriel said:
Shouldn't be too difficult to post a profit next year, then...

Same guy tweeted that Iwata ended the briefing by saying that the 3.6 million target is conservative and not Wii U's peak sales:

No point in forecasting 3.6m if they expect to sell more. Lies.


I'd wager they're being conservative because of how badly wrong they've been with previous forecasts. At this point, given how many estimates and sales guidances they've got wrong, Nintendo's management can't be sure of their reading of the market. A conservative estimation is a reflection of that; Nintendo can't be certain their software and ideas are going to improve the situation for Wii U beyond the modest bump forecast.

They can always revise these figures. It wouldn't exactly be unprecedented.



This piece of news makes me very happy!



                
       ---Member of the official Squeezol Fanclub---

I'm just going to say this again because the people who make the 'hardware costs too much for low-specs' argument need to use their brains and research instead of spreading ignorance. The Wii U is very powerful, and since the design eschews blu-ray, media capabilities, and other bells and whistles that Xbox and PS focus on, the budget is dedicated to the controller and gaming performance. For the thousandth time, the clock rate of a CPU doesn't really matter anymore these days as long as efficiency is there. A 1.6 Ghz. Core i7 from 2008 (first-gen) will handily outperform a Pentium 4 at 4 Ghz, or even a Core 2 series at a higher clock speed.

We won't know exactly what enhancements Nintendo made to the PPC 750 base architecture, but even a 1.4 GHz. 3-core PPC is more efficient than what's in the others. It's common knowledge by now that x86 is an inefficient gaming architecture as compared to PowerPC. In some cases, the Wii U processor can outperform the newer consoles in certain areas. But it's the ESRAM that is making all of these 1080p games possible, or at least the 60fps. Everything in the Wii U is balanced, and they work together as a cohesive whole.

Long story short, the Wii U may not have Ronaldo on the team, but the parts inside work together and play like the Bulls did this season without any big stars.



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Nintendo is now in a position to just make profits. That should put a band-aid on their operating loss and post a profit.



MarcellusMighty said:
I'm just going to say this again because the people who make the 'hardware costs too much for low-specs' argument need to use their brains and research instead of spreading ignorance. The Wii U is very powerful, and since the design eschews blu-ray, media capabilities, and other bells and whistles that Xbox and PS focus on, the budget is dedicated to the controller and gaming performance. For the thousandth time, the clock rate of a CPU doesn't really matter anymore these days as long as efficiency is there. A 1.6 Ghz. Core i7 from 2008 (first-gen) will handily outperform a Pentium 4 at 4 Ghz, or even a Core 2 series at a higher clock speed.

We won't know exactly what enhancements Nintendo made to the PPC 750 base architecture, but even a 1.4 GHz. 3-core PPC is more efficient than what's in the others. It's common knowledge by now that x86 is an inefficient gaming architecture as compared to PowerPC. In some cases, the Wii U processor can outperform the newer consoles in certain areas. But it's the ESRAM that is making all of these 1080p games possible, or at least the 60fps. Everything in the Wii U is balanced, and they work together as a cohesive whole.

Long story short, the Wii U may not have Ronaldo on the team, but the parts inside work together and play like the Bulls did this season without any big stars.



Yes, its very efficient design but only useful if they take advantage of it by coding the game around this architecture which is possible only with First party. So, 3rd parties need easy development environment and reasonable hardware close to the other platforms to develop otherwise there are gonna skip which is happening now.



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

Mummelmann said:

I made a decent guess at the very least. About time they got cost below sales price.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5774523

They still have limited leverage for price cuts though; I wonder if they'll accept going into the red again by slashing the price in Q4? They might have to if they want any momentum. Then again; from a business standpoint, profits trumphs a slightly increased installed base, so they might opt for keeping the price and focus more on bundles instead.


the Mario Kart 8 bundle is $329, i think it will drop to $299 by the holidays, other than that i think there wont be a price cut this year.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Sharu said:
episteme said:
Only if they reach their 3.6M forecast, right?

More units produced -> lower costs per unit

No. Its a details from investor briefing. 3.6 m forecast is separate from "Nintendo not experiencing a loss from hardware anymore"

No, it's not independent:

From the Q&A:

"With respect to the impact of Wii U hardware sales on profit and loss, in order to sell 3.60 million units, we have to produce some more hardware units on top of our current hardware inventory. However, since the loss arising due to the hardware production costs being higher than our trade price was taken into account in the previous fiscal year, you could assume that there will be almost no loss this fiscal year for the sales of the 3.60 million hardware units."

Source: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140508qa/index.html



Well, the Q&A has been released in English, and as expected the reality isn't as simple as the Wii U is now profitable.

The quote was

"With respect to the impact of Wii U hardware sales on profit and loss, in order to sell 3.60 million units, we have to produce some more hardware units on top of our current hardware inventory.  However, since the loss arising due to the hardware production costs being higher than our trade price was taken into account in the previous fiscal year, you could assume that there will be almost no loss this fiscal year for the sales of the 3.60 million hardware units."

It seems that a devaluation of their current inventory of Wii U's occured in the previous fiscal year.  So they are still being sold at a loss, it's just that accounting wise, the loss was booked in the previous fiscal year.  Also, "almost no loss" is still a loss.  So even with the devaluation of their inventory and their projections for the costs of Wii U's still to be manufactured, they aren't projecting profitability for the Wii U hardware over this fiscal year.

There are also other factors that I have discussed in my previous posts.  For example, the Mario Kart bundle will likely comprise a significant portion of hardware sales and it is being sold at a higher price than the previously available bundles.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140508qa/index.html