how is this thread not dead yet. just stop posting in it...

I wish more devs would just exactly what they want to see.  Like when the head of Gearbox said to Cerny "If you don't use 8GB of RAM, you're F*cked!"  

you just did the same thing....now I did too...arghh!  

So you tell me as a developer which engine would you support.  The one that’s free and support pretty much everything or the one that cost that does not.  I am not saying Unity is the best, I am saying it supports all platforms and is free for developers who develop on multiple systems, Its proven and widely accepted.   

What I am saying is if you are an engine developer, its best to compete with your competitors not whine about using SRAM or complain that the OEM did not give you the love the way you wanted.  As a developer, I care little about such whining, instead I want to hear how your engine will provide me support for all platforms and do the best to wrestle as much performance as possible from each. 

Like I stated in another post, this developers' customer is not MS, its other developers and when a decision is made to purchase an engine from a developer, such whining is of no concern.  On another point, this is one side of a story where there are 2 parties and little info.  Who knows how they acted when making a submission.  Who knows the response sent back from MS or anything.  I am willing to believe that MS is a pain to work with depending on what part of the business you are communicating with but you can still work with them.

I looked at the games that use/will use this engine and I absolutely do not care for any of them. Heck, I did not even hear of any of them. Yet, I still love how people make big deal out of this. Go figure.

Well, good for Sony. 

Well, at least the Cry Engine 4 isn't exclusive to PS4.....that would be way worse lol

Ya, I totally misread the title at first.

That's like arguing that one should just eat mcdonalds because the calorie content far exceeds any other food source per dollar....not that I'm saying Unity is like McDonalds. I'm saying that just because something is free and a lot of people use it, does not mean every developer wants to use it. Do you know any major studios that use unity?

Do you know any major studios who all use the same engine? No. They all make their own engines, or source different engines...there are even different kinds of engines, like graphics engines, or physics engines. You know the unreal engine? Look at the games that use it. It is designed for first person shooters, and third person over the shoulder. It is known for its grittiness, dynamic per pixel lighting, and customizable shaders. If you're making a game like this unreal engine is an option.

The point is, every engine is designed for specific purposes. While there are some general engines that kind of do everything, they are known for their flexibility rather than their capability. Personally, I don't know anything about c4. I know Unity is a very good engine and very flexible, but that doesn't mean every dev is just going to use it because it's free.

Yes the engine designer is targetting developers, yes they are cutting down their demographic...but that doesn't mean they are whining or stupid. Everyone in the industry knows that the market is difficult, and sometimes, the difficulties aren't worth the hassle.

A couple years ago, I wrote a thread about some devs complaining about Nintendo agreements, disrespect, and unfair practices. Everyone said the same thing as you. Eventually more and more devs came out about it, and look....everyone questions why there isn't very much third party support. The evidence is clear as day.

This is the same evidence as here. This isn't just one developer who has complained about this. It is one in many. You think it's just some sort of mistake I guess? That all the devs are saying Sony is really great to them and everything, and that MS isn't. Then you see the list of people onboard each system, and you're like "gee, that makes sense now".

I guess you can argue the engine thing however long you want....I don't mind. It has nothing to do with the real meat of the story.

You know what other industry treated "shitty indies" the same way? The comic book print industry....and it's been a big mistake.

We are not talking about any major studio, we are talking about indie studios and a indie game engine.  The direct competition for this game engine is Unity since its the standard game engine used by indie developers.

Unless the C4 engine does something great that Unity does not this is just conjecture.  Unity is proven in a wide list of different genre for game development.  Why would most indies even consider a paid option if they get a proven engine for free.  What i am saying is getting a proven free engine with great support, great community, great features, works on all platforms and is free is going to be pretty hard to not use on something unproven and already missing at least one platform.

I don't think you are getting the point. Just because bicycles are proven effective transportation doesn't mean people shouldn't buy a unicycle.

If its not worth the hassle they should get out.  If game developers want movement in the industry they should team up.  In the development community I work in, this is what we do and its how we get these large corporation to cater to us.

And now you're only assuming what happened. It's funny that you say we should listen to both sides and then assume what transpired on your own. Stick to the facts. All we know is that c4 engine devs attempted to work with xb1 and were treated poorly. That is all.

Yes, cutting down your platform and whining on line about having to develop for a system is not good business.  Good business is knowing when to keep your mouth shut and set your greviance to the company you are dealing with not the public.

I'm not going to disagree, but I'm not going to agree that there is only one way to do business either.

The best route for those developers would be to take it with Nintendo.  Public grieving does nothing but set animosity between the company you have issues with and you.  Instead of coming out, those developers should all band together and approach Nintendo as a group.  When you approach a company as a group your concerns are important instead of one off dev here or there having complaints. This is basic 101 for dealing with corporations like Nintendo, Sony and MS.  Working for a few big corporations like I have which actually included MS, IBM and a few national banks, this has always been the best route to success.  There are plenty of trade shows where you can meet like-minded developers to connect to.  Teaming up and presenting your issues to the company is  smart business because it makes the company have to recognize the group. 

Again, you act like companies haven't done this. I guess your logic is, "if it didn't work, it's because they weren't banded together". Right? Funny, because all of them leaving didn't change Nintendo's policies at all.

Most times it does seem like indie devs are way to spoiled or not working in such corporate environments shows their inexperience in getting movement with big corporations.  

Point above address this point.  Going public solves nothing.  Going to the company as a group get things done.

Going public has often solved more problems by getting public attention to the problem. I could rattle off hundreds of laws that were only worked on after public media exposure. Nintendo is only changing their attitude now that wiiU is tanking. Sometimes, things aren't so simple.

Jumping to conclusions.  We actaully only have one side of a story.  As stated, since MS went into a deal with the Unity developers, working with this developer probably was not going to be high priority and probably also would not be in their best interest if they are making deals somewhere else.  Stuff like this happen in business all the time.  Bad timming for this group but shutting the door is also not smart as well.

Oh, so then banding together wouldn't have done shit then. Good business is treating the people who want to make content for your system like shit until they fuck off....or until your product collapses.