By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - C4 Engine Exclusive To PS4 Due To PR Missteps For Xbox One

Shinobi-san on 03 March 2014
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Machiavellian said:
Shinobi-san said:
Wow that guy didnt hold back any punches with that statement.

Not sure what MS was thinking when they dealt with these guys...

In business you never burn your bridges unless you really think you will never cross it.  I find it silly for any developer to cross that line as things change all the time within a company as well as policy.  So when this developer was reaching out to MS, who did they reach out to.  Things have changed from the beginning of the X1 compared to now.  Never in those quotes did the developer mention where, when and how he communicated to MS.  What response did they get and did he ever reach out again.

For cross game development, if the X1 becomes a popular indie system, then his engine will not be the one looked at by indie developers but instead engines that run on both platforms like Unity.  I would think the developer would want to have as many developers using his engine than being butt hurt if their first efforts were not met with the kind of happiness and sunshine they wanted.

I doubt hes burned bridges. MS has had a turn around when it comes to dealing with smaller devs. So like i said in a previous post, im sure MS will sort this out, i doubt MS will hold a grudge for a statement made when asked a question. Especially if its the truth.

I also raised the issue of timing in a previous post so im not sure why you are quoting me and asking the very same things i was asking in a previous post....:/

If he is not burning the bridge he sure enough have it lit.  It's not the fact that he stated that communication was poor with MS but he also criticize the console.  If he would have just left it at bad communication then I would agree with you but the attitude from the quote would make dealings strained.  You notice most developers who have dealings with console OEMs never say anything public negative about the system.  Most business would not want to deal with someone who will come out and start to criticize their system if things become touché.

On another note, for developers who are developing for the X1, you get a free Unity license anyway so I really do not see why any cross or exclusive indie developer on the X1 would look to this developer engine when there is a very powerful free alternative.

 

On your previous post, I did not see it so I apologize for my response to yours since you made reference to my points.

I really dont see the big deal with hes comments. When MS approaches him and makes everything good then there will be an article from this same guy talking about how lovely it is to develop for the X1.

If that does happen then i think we can all direct out anger at the devs for being total hypocrites lol.

Also yeah the engine...i doubt this has a big impact on anything, but i think the main point about the article is the negatice sentiment towards MS and how they are (or were) dealing with smaller devs. To be honest think  all the major guys treat the smaller guys like shit..until recently when indies and mobile games really started seeing big successes. Thats when Sony changed its tune. MS just seemed slow to adapt....they have already addressed the issue since though with ID@Xbox.

And no prob :)



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Around the Network
Mr Puggsly on 03 March 2014
Fusioncode said:

Considering they shipped 3.9m and only sold 3m I highly doubt Microsoft expected to be at this level of sales. 

And one more time... did you get the impression their goal was to be the market leader?

For the record, hoping for stronger sales and hoping to be the market leader is not the same thing.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 03 March 2014
Shinobi-san said:

Given the state of the PSP and the DS why would market leader be a realistic goal for Sony with the PSV?Although Sony are pretty deluded at times...i wouldnt be surprised if they did have a goal of being market leader with the VITA

Thats why i said above "considering the position the 360 was in..." the context is key here. I didnt say the success of the 360 guarentees X1 to be market leader but it does make a realistic goal.

Which is what you asked about....MS's goal.


I think the X1 could have been a market leader if it launched for $299.

Being the market leader at $499 is not realistic. Especially when you're the most expensive console on the market.

The reason the X1 is in a less than impressive situation is because the price of the console. Unless MS does something about that, I don't feel they're making a real effort to compete.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

kitler53 on 03 March 2014
Mr Puggsly said:
kitler53 said:

and we don't really know what sony has lined up either...

 

..yet in march the only games i can find solid release dates on for xbone are titanfall and metal gear ground zeros.

on ps4: we have infamous second sons and metal gear ground zeros.         ...and Awesomenauts, and Dead Nation, and Putty Squad, and TowerFall: Ascension, and SteamWorld Dig, and Dynasty Warriors 8, and Fez, and DreamPark Tycoon, and Stealth Inc: Ultimate Edition, and Strike Suit Zero.

so tell me,.. when are MS going to start delivering the games?!


Hmmm... I'll take Titanfall.

I'm sorry, that isn't a very impressive list on the PS4. Its still slim pickings on either platform.

and i'll take infamous.    everything else is gravy.   games is always  >>>>> no games. 



Fusioncode on 03 March 2014
Mr Puggsly said:
Fusioncode said:

Considering they shipped 3.9m and only sold 3m I highly doubt Microsoft expected to be at this level of sales. 

And one more time... did you get the impression their goal was to be the market leader?

For the record, hoping for stronger sales and hoping to be the market leader is not the same thing.

Small profits is nothing for a company like Microsoft. Their goal with Xbox has always been to take over the living room. They ain't doing that with these sales. 



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

Around the Network
Shinobi-san on 03 March 2014
Mr Puggsly said:
Shinobi-san said:

Given the state of the PSP and the DS why would market leader be a realistic goal for Sony with the PSV?Although Sony are pretty deluded at times...i wouldnt be surprised if they did have a goal of being market leader with the VITA

Thats why i said above "considering the position the 360 was in..." the context is key here. I didnt say the success of the 360 guarentees X1 to be market leader but it does make a realistic goal.

Which is what you asked about....MS's goal.


I think the X1 could have been a market leader if it launched for $299.

Being the market leader at $499 is not realistic. Especially when you're the most expensive console on the market.

The reason the X1 is in a less than impressive situation is because the price of the console. Unless MS does something about that, I don't feel they're making a real effort to compete.

I dont buy that argument really. Any system at ANY price point can be a market leader. The perceived value needs to be there as well. MS failed at conveying the value of their console at 499.

The WiiU is at a lower price than the PS4 yet it sells significantly worse.

Low sales is not inherent to a high price. Its all about perceived value.

Edit: On the topic of price...MS cant simply cut the price to 399...unless they are willing to sell the console without Kinect. And clearly in MS's opinion Kinect is the key to their success.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

Mr Puggsly on 03 March 2014
Fusioncode said:

Small profits is nothing for a company like Microsoft. Their goal with Xbox has always been to take over the living room. They ain't doing that with these sales.

One last time.

Based on everything you've seen MS do, most notably putting the most expensive console on the market, did you REALLY get the impression MS was aiming to be the market leader?

I can agree with you that the X1 isn't doing as well as MS wanted. But I never got the impression they were really aiming to be the market leader.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Mr Puggsly on 03 March 2014
Shinobi-san said:
Mr Puggsly said:


I think the X1 could have been a market leader if it launched for $299.

Being the market leader at $499 is not realistic. Especially when you're the most expensive console on the market.

The reason the X1 is in a less than impressive situation is because the price of the console. Unless MS does something about that, I don't feel they're making a real effort to compete.

I dont buy that argument really. Any system at ANY price point can be a market leader. The perceived value needs to be there as well. MS failed at conveying the value of their console at 499.

The PS3 not being a market leader at $599, but selling great at $399, $299, $249, and $199 shows you should buy my argument.

If MS really wanted the X1 to be a market leader, it would have launched for $299 and MS would have ate a loss to do it.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

kitler53 on 03 March 2014
Mr Puggsly said:
Fusioncode said:

Small profits is nothing for a company like Microsoft. Their goal with Xbox has always been to take over the living room. They ain't doing that with these sales.

One last time.

Based on everything you've seen MS do, most notably putting the most expensive console on the market, did you REALLY get the impression MS was aiming to be the market leader?

I can agree with you that the X1 isn't doing as well as MS wanted. But I never got the impression they were really aiming to be the market leader.

you know what puggsly,..  i absolutely agree with you here.

the disasterous launch focusing on kinect and tvtvtvsports.   the disasterous DRM policies.  the disasterously high price.   clearly, MS was trying their absolute hardest to fail.  launching a successful product probably never crossed MS's mind...



Shinobi-san on 03 March 2014
Mr Puggsly said:
Shinobi-san said:
Mr Puggsly said:


I think the X1 could have been a market leader if it launched for $299.

Being the market leader at $499 is not realistic. Especially when you're the most expensive console on the market.

The reason the X1 is in a less than impressive situation is because the price of the console. Unless MS does something about that, I don't feel they're making a real effort to compete.

I dont buy that argument really. Any system at ANY price point can be a market leader. The perceived value needs to be there as well. MS failed at conveying the value of their console at 499.

The PS3 not being a market leader at $599, but selling great at $399, $299, $249, and $199 shows you should buy my argument.

If MS really wanted the X1 to be a market leader, it would have launched for $299 and MS would have ate a loss to do it.

PS3 can sell at 50$ for all i care. If Sony didnt support the console with good exclusives and 3rd parties didnt bring their most wanted games..then it doesnt matter what price the PS3 was at it wouldnt sell.  That argument about price being everything is really baseless, so i dont buy it.

MS is not the type of company to purposefully eat big losses, they are in the position they are in (as a company) for a reason. They make good business decisions. Theres no ways MS would eat a ~200$ loss on every console sold. Thats a significant amount even for MS...and all that losses for an offshoot of their core businesses? And just because they are not willing to eat massive losses on every console sold doesnt mean they didnt have a goal to be market leaders. They would have backed their current strategy with Kinect against anything the competition threw at them. It just seems like Sony surprised them with no camera and no gimmick what so ever which enabled them to launch at 399.

I feel like you are just saying the same thing over and over again. If you find an example that supports your claim about price then i am all ears. My point is that perceived value is everything not price. Its really hard to argue with that.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|