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Forums - Gaming - True install base of Gen 6 and Gen 7 and a look at Gen 8

I cant speak for WiiU as i dont know how theyll improve numbers but XBO and PS4 will have a big rise once they hit $300 and third parties abandon PS360. Depending on how long their lifecycle is, pricecuts, games, etc will determine how well they sell. It is way too early to predict what will happen in 5-10 years.




       

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Mr Khan said:

The weasel language is his label of "true". While the demography that you show certainly indicates that most of them were "new" gamers, it's much harder to declare that these people were "exclusively" interested in expanded-market games, especially given how Nintendo was able to relatively easily upstream them into the more entry-level "core" Nintendo games. If they could be upstreamed to Mario Kart Wii, surely they could be deemed "gamers" as far as marketing staff would be concerned, people interested in playing traditional videogames of some sort.

To dismiss them all as if they were a unique, alien breed is troubling, and quite incorrect in any case.

(not saying you dismissed them, Turkish did. Just as the line from "core" to "casual" is blurry, so is the line between "casual" and "expanded audience". For instance, perhaps some of them moved over to Xbox One this time, swayed by Kinect, or merely that they got a taste for CoD after they bought Wii for Wii Fit, and followed it to a platform with a non-gimped CoD experience)


Id argue that the likes of Mario Kart which was continually advertised and/or bundled since launch was the very definition of an expanded market videogame. You just have to look at the ads from Nintendo to see that, with the family around the TV having fun together. Family fun - getting mums and daughters playing with dads and sons, was one of the key things that sold Wii to that expanded market. That said about Mario Kart, the franchise itself on consoles will always generally sell to ~30% of the userbase. Its a "me too" title, that people generally pick up with the console because of the good reputation. 

Id also argue that Mario Kart is a fairly unique example of Nintendo getting the huge expanded market to go out and buy the "core" Nintendo franchises. When you look at how many Wii consoles have been sold (100m) to how many Gamecube consoles were sold (21 Million), the differences in sales of other franchises arent what youd expect. I know attach ratios arent the perfect example to prove this due to several flaws, but it does give you an idea of the differences in userbase and just how many people in the expanded audience jumped onto other Nintendo IP.

Smash Bros. Melee - 7 Million sold on a userbase of 21 Million (~30% attach ratio)
Smash Bros. Brawl - 12 Million sold on a userbase of 100 Million (~12% attach ratio) 

Its also worth noting, that without Melee and Brawl added into the respective libraries for "Fighters", more fighters were sold on Cube than on Wii. ~11 Million on the Cube against ~10 Million on the Wii. This is despite the Wii having more Fighting games.

Zelda: The Wind Waker - 4.6 Million sold on a userbase of 21 Million (~22% attach ratio)
Zelda: Twilight Princess - 6.9 Million sold on a userbase of 100 Million (6.9% attach ratio)
Zelda: Skyward Sword - 3.7 Million sold on a userbase of 100 Million (3.7% attach ratio)

Twilight Princess sold really well, but only 2.3 Million more than Wind Waker? Skyward Sword trashed by Wind Waker? This shows the expanded audience wasnt really on board with the LoZ franchise... Unless were talking Link's Crossbow Training which will end up outselling Skyward Sword.

Metroid Prime - 2.8 Million sold on a userbase of 21 Million (~13% attach ratio)
Metroid Prime 2 - 1.3 Million sold on a userbase of 21 Million (~6% attach ratio)
Metroid Prime 3 - 1.8 Million sold on a userbase of 100 Million (~1.8% attach ratio)

As you can see, the expanded market simply ignored this franchise.

To keep this relatively short, looking at a few more titles - Super Mario Sunshine to the Galaxy games gives a similar conclusion to the Smash Bros comparison. Animal Crossing gives a similar conclusion. Paper Mario gives a similar conclusion.

On the other hand, Mario Party in an example that saw a huge increase with MP8 to the Cube games (though the Cube had a lot of MP).

I think sales prove that that the vast majority of the Wii userbase were expanded market gamers who jumped on board out of the blue. It was a brilliant business strategy and it worked for Nintendo. Kids absolutely loved the thing. Mums wanted to buy it. Dads enjoyed playing it. Grandma and Grandpa could get in on the fun. It was great for parties. The best selling games and genres on the Wii prove this, while other Nintendo IP havent seen brilliant growth from N64 > NGC > Wii. Id also argue that the Wii U can be evidence towards this, with IP that sold extremely well on Wii doing nothing at all for Wii U sales (and in certain cases tanking all together, Wii Fit U)

While Turkish is pulling numbers out of his arse, as I said in my first post, I think the side discussion about the Wii userbase and just what it was (and where its now gone) is quite interesting. Its certainly not a 20:80 ratio in terms of "core" and "casual" gamers, but I myself would estimate it close to 35:65, if not 40:60.



                            

binary solo said:
IamAwsome said:
TheShape31 said:

I disagree with the premise of the OP.  To say that almost all Wii owners were non-gamers is silly.  Just my thought.

It's Turkish, he always bags on Nintendo. 

Anyway I agree with you. There were a LOT of cross Wii/PS3 and Wii/360 owners, and the Wii had a decent share of hardcore gamers. 

@The OP

These numbers are kinda inflated. There were a lot of cross gen owners so just adding up the numbers  won't give you a true amount of core gamers. 

Name one multiplatform "hardcore" game that sold best on Wii?

Name one hardcore Wii exclusive that has virtually no appeal to "casuals" that sold better than the top PS3 or 360 exclusives that have virtually no appeal to casuals. You could argue that SMG is the best selling Wii exclusive that has no appeal to casuals, but I actually think LoZ: Twilight princess is that game. But still all the sriously hard core games (Madworld, No More Heroes, Metroid, Red Steel, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, House of the Dead, GoldenEye etc) all qacheived pretty modest sales and in some cases fairly disappointing sales.

As a proportion of total console sales Wii did not have a decent share of hardcore gamers. The hardcore gamers were hugely skewed to PS360, because of HD.

But I do think Wii got more than GC levels of sales to gamers who were in the console market for more than just the 7th generation. But those gamers having previously been on PS1 and PS2 (most likely) look like they are going back to PS this generation.  And those who were casual on PS2 and went to Wii, are possibly ditching consoles and going casual elsewhere. I don't think it requires too much speculation to conclude that the size of the casual market on consoles has shrunk dramatically. The majority of the console market is now committed console gamers, with some primarily PC gamers getting one or two consoles for the exclusives, and some casuals who like to have a varied casual experience.

I think the OP is over-estimating PS4 lifetime sales. Probably over-estimating Xb one lifetime sales, and probably correctly estimating Wii U lifetime sales.

To answer your first question, one of the Guitar Hero games and Sonic Unleashed. IIRC, COD3 also did better on Wii than PS3 and wasn't far behind the 360 version. 

To answer your second question, Super Smash Bros. Brawl which sold 1.2 million from 2012 on (after Nintendo dropped the Wii). Monster Hunter sold well on Wii, I wouldn't call over 2 million modest. Several "seriously hardcore" games on Wii didn't sell 3+ million, and if a game dissapointed on the charts then there was a reason behind it. I am specifically talking about Red Steel 2, Dead Space Extraction, Madworld, and No More Heroes here, but there are many others. 

Games like COD, GoldenEye, Resident Evil 4, and Star Wars among others did respectable numbers. Not GTAV respectable but still decent. I know the PS360 has the majority of hardcore gamers, but the Wii still had it's minority; more than the OP, and others in the thread have stated. 

The casual audience on PS4/XBO/WiiU right now has shrunk compared to last gen, but the gen is just beginning, and there are still several holiday seasons to go. Some casuals may still upgrade later in the gen, most won't, but I think there will be a casual presence this gen. 

Wii U sales are on track to 25m right now, but like I said, the gen is just starting. The XBO could go either way right now, and the PS4 will likely sell ~80-90m. If MS messes up with the XBO, or Nintendo does something right with the Wii U, all of those numbers could change. 



Kasz216 said:
ICStats said:
Kasz216 said:
Carl2291 said:

Im struggling to argue against that. As are other people in the thread, as you can see by them laughing it off, insulting you or deflecting it.

Or nobody has just bothered to, since he literally just made up the number on the spot... which is pretty worthy of just outright dismissil and ridicule.  (Hell, I'd of considered just locking the topic as flamebait had Khan not posted in it.)


Shit if I recall the research correctly greater than 20% of Wii Owners owned more then 2 consoles.

 

Old one from 09 but....

 

Nearly 40 percent of PS3 owners also own Wiis or Xbox 360s, 18 percent of Xbox 360 owners have PS3s, and few Wii owners also possess 360s (26 percent) or PS3s (14 percent).

 

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/15/npd-provides-stats-on-game-promotion-platform-cross-ownership/

 

I'd actually expect Cross Platform ownership to RISE as the generation goes on... espiecally with the Wii, which lost it's sales luster late on, and likely the back end sales are mostly 360/PS3 owners picking it up for exclusives.   I mean, it probably decreased for the PS3 since it was so unpopular early on, but Wii and 360 likely only increased as the generation went on.

Hard to call multi-console owners casual or new audience.

 

Cross Platform play something he totally ignored and totally invalidates his theories in the first place.

This doesn't support your point.

~20% of Wii owners had multiple consoles;  ~80% did not own multiple consoles.

The 20% are likely to be core gamer / casual, while the 80% are likely to have more non-gamers, kids, and Nintendo only diehards.

The OP has a good point, and he doesn't have to be 100% accurate (neither are VGC, NPD, Nintendo surveys, etc.) he just has to have a good analysis.

You may wanna re-read that

26% of Wii owners owned 360, and 14% owned PS3.s

Which gives a range of 26% to 40% owning multiple consoles.

In otherwords... greater the 20%... off by a huge margin of error....

No matter the situation.

 

And it's likely higher up on the spectrum then lower, since it's somewhat pointless to own both a 360 and a PS3.

and doesn't even consider the fact that you know... there could be real gamers who just owned the Wii.

Which pretty much actually has to be the case.

I mean hell, people bought the gamecube.

In othewords his numbers of real gamers for the Wii is undeniably low by quite a bit.

and his prediction as far as gamers in general is likely actually way to high.  Ignoring all the cross platform ownership and upgrading due to new models/specs etc.

 

In otherwords, he didn't really spend a lot of time thinking about this... it's a pretty terrible analysis missing tons and tons of factors.

Maybe, but I think it's more considerate than those who are saying the market is PS3+X360+Wii gamers, joining that with PS4's initial success, and concluding PS4 will sell more than PS2.



My 8th gen collection

MikeRox said:
My youngest cousin came around today with my Uncle. He was playing *shudder* an iPad...

I've NEVER known anyone sit playing games happily on a non "gaming" centric device before ever. Gaming is going to decline badly this gen :(


Sorry but the response to this is "have you been hiding under a rock?".  Kids happily gaming on iPad has been a thing for a few years now.

My son was the same.  Fortunately I got him a Wii U for Christmas and he's been into that, as well as a bit of PS4, more than iPad since then.



My 8th gen collection

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To be fair I don't have too many younger members in my family now, and they've always been playing a DS or PSP when they'd come round.

I've seen it as a time pass using a parents iPad when there is nothing better to do, not in place of a dedicated gaming platform.

He wasn't interested in 3DS, Vita, Wii U or PS4. He just wanted to play some game for a breakfast cereal.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts."



https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/new-report-from-the-npd-group-focuses-on-core-gaming-and-core-gamers/

According to Core Gaming 2013, the latest report from global information company, the NPD Group, within the US population ages 9 and older, almost half play video games on what would be considered a core gaming device, but only 14 percent, or 37.5 million people, would be considered a core gamer*.



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

What about the PS2 having a DVD player? This was HUGE back then.



Game of the year 2017 so far:

5. Resident Evil VII
4. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
2. Horizon Zero Dawn
1. Super Mario Odyssey

The loss of casuals I think will make publishers more risk-averse and give us more less-than-stellar games.

When you have a series like Just Dance that is low-cost to develop and rakes in millions -- it gives companies like Ubisoft the working capital to take risks that help pioneer innovative games.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016