And were just going to ignore the millions and millions of casuals who bought a 360 kinect bundle? This thread is as biased as it gets. I agree with the point that you're trying to make, but i disagree with the numbers you're putting forward.

EDIT: You're also expecting 360+ps3 to sell another 25m consoles. Lol.. 360 is dead in the water and ps3 is declining faster then 360. Both systems will be very lucky to sell another 13-14m units.

Well, schematics maybe, but an installed base is not total sales of a console, it's active consoles. That's what the term means, "installed in homes". That's why most believe the PS3 passed the 360 a few years ago in terms of installed base, because of the 360's higher failure rate. I see gaming news sites get this wrong all the time, which has furthered the misconception.

Regardless, about the Wii, I know the percentage of people who don't move on to the next generation is going to be high, I just hope it isn't nearly as high as the OP believes. The Wii U looks like it's going to shed a lot of customers, yes, but maybe a chunk of Wii customers have BECOME gamers because of the Wii and will try one of the other platforms or the 3DS.

Still, yes, the Wii was an aberration and I don't think its entire customers base should be included when we consider the home console market. Some of them just aren't going to stick around and never were. The 'shrink' is going to be somewhat misleading and doomsayers will try to use that as a huge negative.

There is still a lot of money to be made from the home console market.

Those contortions really hurt. Right?

So what you're saying is that, of the 915 million units of software sold for the Wii, the vast majority were bought by 20-25 million people? You think 20-25 million people bought of the order of 35 games each?

Or do you believe that non-gamers were buying large numbers of games?

What's trolling about my comment? The casuals can exist however much they like, just not on the console of my choice. Some shortsighted members think the industy is collapsing because X console is not selling well.

The casuals have largely moved on to the mobile market and thank God for that. A lot of developers have shifted their focus because of this, but i'm not complaining. Consoles used to get game once per month or so and now you have multiple games releasing EVERY week.

Damn. I was also thinking to post something like this. Good thread.

The Wii-casuals don't count, but the Kinect- and CoD-casuals count?

I'm responsible for the sale of three 360s, two PS3, one Wii, six DS's, and two PSPs...and yet despite so many consoles, I'm just one guy.

Install base is a hard thing to keep track of, especially when it comes to potential software customers.

It is fair to point out that a big chunk of PS2's userbase are what you'd call casual

Sounds like a fair assessment, and current sales figures agree.

As for those getting so bent out of shape about his comments on the Wii userbase, you might want to give this part another read.

"Gen 8 down by 40-50m from Gen 7 if we don't count the Wii non-gamers. This is due to a slight erosion of casual/dudebro/sports crowd losing interest in gaming, and a mix of Nintendo+MS fuckups, unable to keep their Wii60 audience."