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Forums - Sony Discussion - Can Vita Outsell Sega's GameGear LTD?

joeorc on 21 January 2014
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

I was simply referring to the impact in sales for the system itself. I'm sure it will create a better ecosystem of indie content, however, having a good lineup of iOS and Adroid games is not going to be a deciding factor when a consumer goes to make a purchase.

see right there is, how do you know?

like i stated before Unity 3D is like the  Unreal Engine  is for the PC, but for the Mobile Chipsets !

there are some very good Games that smartphones, and smart devices that these 3rd party developers and "publisher's" also use that's the key, the Hardware is capable of being able to use that Advance Game engine that frankly is not like development environment was for the PSP, or for that matter the PSPGo,the fact is despite many perceptions about smartphones and Tablet game quality, to go make games that do not look like they were only made for only making a quick buck off of the consumer can be found right on these smartphones and tablets just look at GTAIII and GTA Vice city Max Payne

to top it off

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rockstargames.gtasa&hl=en.

The fact that smartphones and Tablets

and in PSM Sony has also invested more into making more standard development Api's to port games over to the PSVita

August 20, 2013

  • The scoreboard feature has been added
  • Improved convenience of creating keys
  • Added Windows 8 as an official support target of SDK. Removed Windows XP as an official support target of SDK
  • Supported the multi-user feature added from Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean)
  • When the application is hidden in Android, the application no longer terminates
If Sony was going to drop this platform..notice i stated "platform" is not about using the PSVita as just a handheld only its a chipset platform for "Playstation" make a vita Application it can run on that hardware. Does that sound like they are going to up and quit  on this platform?
The PSVita is not designed as a platform as the psp and PSPGo or a Nintendo handheld was/is the fact as a platform the chipset is cheap enough for sony to produce right now that without the screen, the platform is most likely going to net Sony more profit. hell even with a screen and dual camera's 

June 9, 2011
Scott Rhode, VP of SCEA, recently held an interview with GameTrailers to talk about the Vita. In the interview, Rhode was very excited about the product, revealing that they would be profitable – or t least break even – from day one:

t the Vita. In the interview, Rhode was very excited about the product, revealing that they would be profitable – or t least brI think that we’re going to do very well with this, and this price point – it’s also not going to lose money for us on day one. We’re going to do well with this thing.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-will-be-profitable-on-day-one/

the fact that it may not have been world wide in every location that is was at profit or break even in every region, after 3 years Kaz even himself stated it would be at profit.

So without the screen, and dual camera's that is most likely the case with the PSVita TV is at a sizeable chunk of profit already. I doubt very much Sony is worried about pulling the platform anytime soon, when its chipset is inline with the highest selling smartdevices, at the very least its a incentive to port to the PSVita from iOS or Android. Beside's again even if its not or may not be a Exclusive it can still be played on the system.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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MikeRox on 21 January 2014
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

You make good points in regards to the FFX sales, I was just expecting much better 1st week figures, even if the Vita does have a smaller install base. Considering FFX is more of a legacy title, it is sort of expected to do better than the previous remakes, hence why I would consider it more of a failure if it only sold on par with the previous entries. 

 

I think the first Vita shipment of FFX / X2 is actually 95+% sold through so it could be supply constraints in play too.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Nirvana_Nut85 on 21 January 2014
joeorc said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

I was simply referring to the impact in sales for the system itself. I'm sure it will create a better ecosystem of indie content, however, having a good lineup of iOS and Adroid games is not going to be a deciding factor when a consumer goes to make a purchase.

see right there is, how do you know?

like i stated before Unity 3D is like the  Unreal Engine  is for the PC, but for the Mobile Chipsets !

there are some very good Games that smartphones, and smart devices that these 3rd party developers and "publisher's" also use that's the key, the Hardware is capable of being able to use that Advance Game engine that frankly is not like development environment was for the PSP, or for that matter the PSPGo,the fact is despite many perceptions about smartphones and Tablet game quality, to go make games that do not look like they were only made for only making a quick buck off of the consumer can be found right on these smartphones and tablets just look at GTAIII and GTA Vice city Max Payne

to top it off

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rockstargames.gtasa&hl=en.

The fact that smartphones and Tablets

and in PSM Sony has also invested more into making more standard development Api's to port games over to the PSVita

August 20, 2013

  • The scoreboard feature has been added
  • Improved convenience of creating keys
  • Added Windows 8 as an official support target of SDK. Removed Windows XP as an official support target of SDK
  • Supported the multi-user feature added from Android 4.2 (Jelly Bean)
  • When the application is hidden in Android, the application no longer terminates
If Sony was going to drop this platform..notice i stated "platform" is not about using the PSVita as just a handheld only its a chipset platform for "Playstation" make a vita Application it can run on that hardware. Does that sound like they are going to up and quit  on this platform?
The PSVita is not designed as a platform as the psp and PSPGo or a Nintendo handheld was/is the fact as a platform the chipset is cheap enough for sony to produce right now that without the screen, the platform is most likely going to net Sony more profit. hell even with a screen and dual camera's 

June 9, 2011
Scott Rhode, VP of SCEA, recently held an interview with GameTrailers to talk about the Vita. In the interview, Rhode was very excited about the product, revealing that they would be profitable – or t least break even – from day one:

t the Vita. In the interview, Rhode was very excited about the product, revealing that they would be profitable – or t least brI think that we’re going to do very well with this, and this price point – it’s also not going to lose money for us on day one. We’re going to do well with this thing.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2011/06/09/playstation-vita-will-be-profitable-on-day-one/

the fact that it may not have been world wide in every location that is was at profit or break even in every region, after 3 years Kaz even himself stated it would be at profit.

So without the screen, and dual camera's that is most likely the case with the PSVita TV is at a sizeable chunk of profit already. I doubt very much Sony is worried about pulling the platform anytime soon, when its chipset is inline with the highest selling smartdevices, at the very least its a incentive to port to the PSVita from iOS or Android. Beside's again even if its not or may not be a Exclusive it can still be played on the system.

The point I’m trying to make is that people will not go out and purchase the PSV on the basis that it ends up getting a long line of quality indie games, hell, people are not purchasing the system with some of the quality 1st and 3rd title party games that have been released. The gaming consumer does not purchase dedicated handhelds or consoles for that matter in order to play “indie games”. Will this provide additional appeal for the current owners or Sony fans waiting to purchase the Vita? Sure. The Vita itself just does not have the mass market appeal and adding Unity to allow the transfer from iOS and Android is not going to have a substantial impact. One would be fooling him/herself to think otherwise.

I’m sure that they didn’t believe they were going to loose money Day 1. However they probably were not expecting to have to drop the price in the matter of time that they did and I would be willing to bet they probably expected a substantial amount more of software being sold during that time frame in order to put the PVS to profitable levels. Unfortunately, the latter happened. It was over hyped and failed to deliver.

Let’s just speculate that they are breaking even on each console. The software sales themselves have been quite mediocre (in comparison to psp) and given that the Vita is quite powerful in terms of mobile/handheld, there probably is quite the jump in development costs. Unfortunately without these numbers we cannot determine what is the break even point for games like Uncharted/ Killzone etc.

It's not illogical to speculate the possibility of the system being pulled/phased out by 2016 in order to release a newer portable console, especially if sales trends continue and the PSV has not sen a respectable increase YoY by the end of this year. Today's electronic market is not like it was in the 90's where a low selling system could have a shelf life of 5-6 years. If not Sony who pulls the plug it could very well be retailers.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Nirvana_Nut85 on 21 January 2014
Michael-5 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

You make good points in regards to the FFX sales, I was just expecting much better 1st week figures, even if the Vita does have a smaller install base. Considering FFX is more of a legacy title, it is sort of expected to do better than the previous remakes, hence why I would consider it more of a failure if it only sold on par with the previous entries. 

As for MCV, I believe that is the UK, which only say an increase of several thousand units per week with the PS4 release. Again, it's a boost but not an impressive one in my opinion.

Wii U is still being sold as a loss and the software is clearly not making up the difference as per the financial loss that Nintendo is estimating for it's fiscal year. I'm sure Uncharted itself made a profit for the developer and yes 1 million is reasonable for protable sales, my only question is that is the Vita still being sold at a loss itself and are software sales significant enough overall in order to turn a profit itself for Sony vs what the are losing. 

Your estimates are fair on the Wii U, 6 million would be a stretch but it they managed another 5 million (we'll have to see if MK/SB are still relevant to the average consumer), that would at least create a comfortable enough install base to start driving decent enough sales that some 3rd parties may decide to start releasing the odd title here and there. I'm not necessarily down about articles/ threads etc. I'm more annoyed if anything. Therefore these recent Sony threads I've created (GT6 fail/PSV)are more along the lines of trying to annoy certain people back (the Nintendo doom and gloomers). The funny thing is, they swarm like flies on shit when it comes to the Nintendo one's but are nowhere to be found when there is a negative Sony thread.

P.S I'm not a huge Keza fan but I have to admit that was a well written/insight article (then again, it could just be that I have my fanboy glasses on!)

Why would you expect FFX to do any better then FF 4-6 for GBA? Both FFX and FF4-6 released about 10 years after the game released on consoles, and both games see minor changes to the handheld port. Plus with only 7 million Vita's compred to 70 million GBA's (at the time FF's launched), that's pretty damn good that FFX is managing to outsell those previous iterations.

I dunno if WiiU is still selling at a loss. They said the 8GB $299 version was sold at a loss at launch, but that loss becomes a profit after 2 games are sold. WiiU is still $299 (but with a 32GB Flash drive), production costs must have gone down.

With Vita, even if it's being sold at a loss, Sony won't discontinue it early. If Sony discontinues early, they may as well drop out of the handheld market, and I know Sony doesn't want that (but they could make pretty awesome SmartPhones). Sega was going through a tougher time with the Saturn, so long as Vita's sell, Sony will keep supporting it, even if it's only to give them a better chance come 9th gen hand helds.

As for the WiiU article, I think it made some good points. Nintendo profited 18 billion last gen, where Sony only made 2 billion, and MS 3 billion. Sega never had that kind of success, they only really had 1 semi-successful gen. Plus there is a convoluted story as to why they went bankrupt, the big reason was the Sega Saturn (developed by Sega Japan, in secret, without letting Sega NA know, and launching it very very poorly and suddenly).

Nintendo isn't going anywhere, not with 3DS looking to sell 80+ million units lifetime, and not after Wii + DS sold 250 million units combined in 7 years.

Well, for starters, FF I, II and IV were not as significant in comparison to FFX when it came to sales. FFX is the second best selling title in the series. This is why I expected more especially due to its popularity in Japan. It has not outsold the previous iterations yet so we will have to wait.

 The Wii U, before the price drop was still being sold at a loss as had been reported in August of last year http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/08/nintendo-wii-u-still-being-sold-at-a-loss/ . Add in the price drop plus the fact they are reporting losses again for the fiscal year and it’s safe to assume they are not breaking even, despite the attachment rate.

 Your right, Sony may not decide to get rid of the Vita but how long do you expect its shelf life to be? How long do you expect retailers to carry the console if it’s not moving systems? I’d suspect not very long. Look what happened with the Wii U at that UK chain. Sony has a better repertoire than Nintendo with retailers but that is only going to get them so far. We all know shelf space is important and if Vita doesn’t pick up soon, I forsee it dwindling down to nothing at least in N.A & EU.

I don’t believe Nintendo is going anywhere either. I just hope there next console is more well thought out that they are able to supply an ample amount of games during launch through to the next fiscal year and that they take their time to fix all the buigs instead of releasing the console so hastily like they did with Wii U (Day 1 owners knowwhat I am talking about) 

 



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

PlayStationLegend on 21 January 2014

Yes. PS Vita doom and gloom. :D

Not really. PS Vita will EASILY reach 25-30 million lifetime sales.

You can quote me on it. : )



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joeorc on 21 January 2014

Nirvana_Nut85 said:

The point I’m trying to make is that people will not go out and purchase the PSV on the basis that it ends up getting a long line of quality indie games, hell, people are not purchasing the system with some of the quality 1st and 3rd title party games that have been released. The gaming consumer does not purchase dedicated handhelds or consoles for that matter in order to play “indie games”. Will this provide additional appeal for the current owners or Sony fans waiting to purchase the Vita? Sure. The Vita itself just does not have the mass market appeal and adding Unity to allow the transfer from iOS and Android is not going to have a substantial impact. One would be fooling him/herself to think otherwise.

Again this is not just about Indie's by themselves, 3rd party "Publisher's" also use UNITY 3d!

which lowers the cost to develop on the PSVita.

 

example:

http://thevitalounge.net/ios-game-skydrift-may-land-on-ps-vita-in-the-future/

"Skydrift was created utilizing the Unity engine, and given the fact that Sony has just recently begunopening up their PlayStation Mobile platform to Unity developers; timings could not have been better. ”As soon as Unity’s Vita support goes live, I’m ready to port Skydrift.” he said."

again this has just released!

Not only is the Unity supportive of the handheld but the company has tapped into the portable's special features that help it separate itself from the competition. This means that developers are capable of utilizing the Vita's motion sensors for gyroscopic gameplay implementation, as well as features for utilizing both the front and rear cameras, which is key for augmented reality games, as well as full use of the dual analog sticks. As pretty much everyone already knows, any 3D game out there with full first or third-person controls relies heavily on dual-stick analog functionality, and any game made in Unity designed around those features are now eligible for port-and-play on the Vita with near 1:1 control mechanics. 

What's more is that PlayStation exclusive features such as Friends, matching and Trophy support are also integrated into the engine, so you can port a game over and easily tier your Trophies to various activities without requiring separate third-party software. This will make it especially easy for PC indie devs to get their game over onto the PS Vita without having to re-work key features or having to utilize additional middleware to ease the process of porting. 

Again , this engine is now open for the PSVita, do you think many 3rd party publisher's may have been waiting on this? go to the unity Forums and see for yourself, they have!

Again

Also as for the price  from $249.00 was already @ break even or at slight profit cost for the PSVita @ certain regions. the PSVita TV does not contain the touch screen front or the touch pad in the back, no dual camera's. top it off no rechargeable battery also to hardware with no need to be included.

with just a single board PCB i doubt very much they would be eating anywhere near the bite of what the cost's for the PSVita was 2 years ago, hell the investment and cost to produce the PSVita right now with the reduction on the redesign on the PSVita thin now with no OLED its mostlikely @ profit.

The fact that Unity 3D support just became open means that 300,000+ developer pool, which includes publisher's also may infact use that game engine to make games for it, even 2nd tier developer's and publisher's how many game on the PS3 use Havok?

Again they are investing into the PSVita, despite many that think that Sony is not going to support this platform very much longer

https://en-support.psm.playstation.net/app/answers/detail/a_id/260

http://globalgamejam.org/

http://globalgamejam.org/news/proud-announce-our-ggj14-video-keynote-speakers



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Arius Dion on 21 January 2014

Nope. It will match it, maybe. The Vita sold 90k for the entire month of DECEMBER! That is putrid. The west doesn't care about the Vita. Europe its carrying the system to any substantial numbers. Only in Japan does it sell decently sometimes. Sony doesn't even care about the system. And Sony has never been able to carry a system on their own. They NEED third party support, and third parties generally don't care about handhelds.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

Michael-5 on 22 January 2014
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, for starters, FF I, II and IV were not as significant in comparison to FFX when it came to sales. FFX is the second best selling title in the series. This is why I expected more especially due to its popularity in Japan. It has not outsold the previous iterations yet so we will have to wait.

 The Wii U, before the price drop was still being sold at a loss as had been reported in August of last year http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/08/nintendo-wii-u-still-being-sold-at-a-loss/ . Add in the price drop plus the fact they are reporting losses again for the fiscal year and it’s safe to assume they are not breaking even, despite the attachment rate.

 Your right, Sony may not decide to get rid of the Vita but how long do you expect its shelf life to be? How long do you expect retailers to carry the console if it’s not moving systems? I’d suspect not very long. Look what happened with the Wii U at that UK chain. Sony has a better repertoire than Nintendo with retailers but that is only going to get them so far. We all know shelf space is important and if Vita doesn’t pick up soon, I forsee it dwindling down to nothing at least in N.A & EU.

I don’t believe Nintendo is going anywhere either. I just hope there next console is more well thought out that they are able to supply an ample amount of games during launch through to the next fiscal year and that they take their time to fix all the buigs instead of releasing the console so hastily like they did with Wii U (Day 1 owners knowwhat I am talking about) 

Yea, but you see FFVI is the fan favorite game in the series, and most people missed it with FFIII being a SNES title. This is more reason for the GBA game to sell better, especially with the 70 million install base.

Sony will fight to keep Vita relavent, they will still sell it until 2017 IMO. Same with WiiU, despite weak Gamecube sales, Nintendo still got space in stores, and had a dedicated audience. I expect the same for WiiU, look how many fans on VGC support Nintendo.

As for the WiiU, like I said Hiroshi Yamauschi died recently, and he had no say with WiiU's design. Iwata made a bad call, maybe the next console will be better, but I don't like how he said he would step down if WiiU didn't sell 5 million during their first fiscal year and then didn't.



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Nirvana_Nut85 on 22 January 2014
joeorc said:

Nirvana_Nut85 said:

The point I’m trying to make is that people will not go out and purchase the PSV on the basis that it ends up getting a long line of quality indie games, hell, people are not purchasing the system with some of the quality 1st and 3rd title party games that have been released. The gaming consumer does not purchase dedicated handhelds or consoles for that matter in order to play “indie games”. Will this provide additional appeal for the current owners or Sony fans waiting to purchase the Vita? Sure. The Vita itself just does not have the mass market appeal and adding Unity to allow the transfer from iOS and Android is not going to have a substantial impact. One would be fooling him/herself to think otherwise.

Again this is not just about Indie's by themselves, 3rd party "Publisher's" also use UNITY 3d!

which lowers the cost to develop on the PSVita.

 

example:

http://thevitalounge.net/ios-game-skydrift-may-land-on-ps-vita-in-the-future/

"Skydrift was created utilizing the Unity engine, and given the fact that Sony has just recently begunopening up their PlayStation Mobile platform to Unity developers; timings could not have been better. ”As soon as Unity’s Vita support goes live, I’m ready to port Skydrift.” he said."

again this has just released!

Not only is the Unity supportive of the handheld but the company has tapped into the portable's special features that help it separate itself from the competition. This means that developers are capable of utilizing the Vita's motion sensors for gyroscopic gameplay implementation, as well as features for utilizing both the front and rear cameras, which is key for augmented reality games, as well as full use of the dual analog sticks. As pretty much everyone already knows, any 3D game out there with full first or third-person controls relies heavily on dual-stick analog functionality, and any game made in Unity designed around those features are now eligible for port-and-play on the Vita with near 1:1 control mechanics. 

What's more is that PlayStation exclusive features such as Friends, matching and Trophy support are also integrated into the engine, so you can port a game over and easily tier your Trophies to various activities without requiring separate third-party software. This will make it especially easy for PC indie devs to get their game over onto the PS Vita without having to re-work key features or having to utilize additional middleware to ease the process of porting. 

Again , this engine is now open for the PSVita, do you think many 3rd party publisher's may have been waiting on this? go to the unity Forums and see for yourself, they have!

Again

Also as for the price  from $249.00 was already @ break even or at slight profit cost for the PSVita @ certain regions. the PSVita TV does not contain the touch screen front or the touch pad in the back, no dual camera's. top it off no rechargeable battery also to hardware with no need to be included.

with just a single board PCB i doubt very much they would be eating anywhere near the bite of what the cost's for the PSVita was 2 years ago, hell the investment and cost to produce the PSVita right now with the reduction on the redesign on the PSVita thin now with no OLED its mostlikely @ profit.

The fact that Unity 3D support just became open means that 300,000+ developer pool, which includes publisher's also may infact use that game engine to make games for it, even 2nd tier developer's and publisher's how many game on the PS3 use Havok?

Again they are investing into the PSVita, despite many that think that Sony is not going to support this platform very much longer

https://en-support.psm.playstation.net/app/answers/detail/a_id/260

http://globalgamejam.org/

http://globalgamejam.org/news/proud-announce-our-ggj14-video-keynote-speakers

I'll address the 3rd party matter. You claimed that major 3rd party publishers are unsing unity. Please provide an actual link to show where major 3rd party developers will be using Unity to develop games for PSV. The quote that you have provided is from an indie developer who is going to port his iOS game as stated from the article

"Developer Tyson Kubota took to Reddit to both announce, and gauge the demand for a port of his independently developed and free iOS title; Skydrift. Kubota is currently involved with Digital Development and Design at renowned film-distribution company The Criterion Collection, but also released the self-crafted title in his spare-time."

 

Once again how is this relevant to 3rd party developers? Where have you heard major 3rd parties announcing they are going to use this tool to develop games? Your not seeing the point. You could have a plethora of iOS and android ports and it is not going to matter as they do not sell systems. I repeat indie ports do not sell systems and will not sell the Vita. Is a great addition for those who already own the system? Yes. I think this is excellent but your drawing straws in believing that this will hold any relevance when John Q Public decides to go out and purchase a handheld.  

To assume that 3rd party dev's were waiting for Unity to be available to publish major titles on PSV is just plain silliness. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else but I would be willing to be a permaban that 3rd party devs are not going to all of a sudden or even progressively for that matter start developing a wave of titles just because PSV now has Unity.

PSVTV is failing in the country that it was suppose to save the Vita, Sony probably made a minor profit off the console but with the lackluster sales I'm sure it is not anything significant. So yes, they obviously did not have the same costs associated with the PSV therefore a samll to medium operating profit would be made but I would highly doubt that would offset Sony's overal losses for it's handheld department
To answer your last remark, company in their right mind would ever go and announce that they are going to stop continuing support of a current console when the successor to that console has not been either shown to the public or released. Like I've stated in previous arguments, it may not be Sony's decision to pull the console off of shelves (especially in the West). It may end up being retailers themselves.


" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Nirvana_Nut85 on 22 January 2014
Michael-5 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Well, for starters, FF I, II and IV were not as significant in comparison to FFX when it came to sales. FFX is the second best selling title in the series. This is why I expected more especially due to its popularity in Japan. It has not outsold the previous iterations yet so we will have to wait.

 The Wii U, before the price drop was still being sold at a loss as had been reported in August of last year http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/08/nintendo-wii-u-still-being-sold-at-a-loss/ . Add in the price drop plus the fact they are reporting losses again for the fiscal year and it’s safe to assume they are not breaking even, despite the attachment rate.

 Your right, Sony may not decide to get rid of the Vita but how long do you expect its shelf life to be? How long do you expect retailers to carry the console if it’s not moving systems? I’d suspect not very long. Look what happened with the Wii U at that UK chain. Sony has a better repertoire than Nintendo with retailers but that is only going to get them so far. We all know shelf space is important and if Vita doesn’t pick up soon, I forsee it dwindling down to nothing at least in N.A & EU.

I don’t believe Nintendo is going anywhere either. I just hope there next console is more well thought out that they are able to supply an ample amount of games during launch through to the next fiscal year and that they take their time to fix all the buigs instead of releasing the console so hastily like they did with Wii U (Day 1 owners knowwhat I am talking about) 

Yea, but you see FFVI is the fan favorite game in the series, and most people missed it with FFIII being a SNES title. This is more reason for the GBA game to sell better, especially with the 70 million install base.

Sony will fight to keep Vita relavent, they will still sell it until 2017 IMO. Same with WiiU, despite weak Gamecube sales, Nintendo still got space in stores, and had a dedicated audience. I expect the same for WiiU, look how many fans on VGC support Nintendo.

As for the WiiU, like I said Hiroshi Yamauschi died recently, and he had no say with WiiU's design. Iwata made a bad call, maybe the next console will be better, but I don't like how he said he would step down if WiiU didn't sell 5 million during their first fiscal year and then didn't.

Even though FFVI was a fan fav, FFX appealed to the masses which is why it sold over 8 million copies.  Which is why I generally expected it to do better.

If retail decides to start cutting back shelf space significantly, it may force Sony's hand to cut it's losses and release it's next handheld. Gamecube sales were weak but they were stronger than bothe the WiiU and PSV which creates a concern. Nintendo's only saving grace moment is that MK8 & Smash Bros are appealing to consumers on a global aspect, which could drive sales in all regions up while Sony has not announced anything as significant yet for Vita.

I whole heartedly agree with you. Iwata screwed up. I personally hope both companeis can pullthemselves out of this whole as I did own a psp and had a nice library of games for it. We'll just have to see where each company stands at this point next year.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"