By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales - Seven early takeaways from the eighth generation

RolStoppable said:

All eighth generation systems have been launched now, so here are a few things that we can be almost certain about.

1. PS4 success should put the "Company X must kill off their own Y to help their own Z" idiocy to rest

VGC has only been around since the launch of the seventh generation home consoles, so it has never seen a smooth transition from one system to the next. The PS3 cratered and so did the 3DS, PSV and Wii U. What all those systems had in common was that their respective predecessor was still putting up good hardware sales numbers which led to a lot of people suggesting that Sony/Nintendo should kill off those old systems as soon as possible, because they were stealing sales from the new ones. This has always been an idiotic argument, because it assumed that late adopters of video game systems (who look for cheap hardware and software) would become early adopters (which is expensive), if only choice was taken away from them.

The real cause of slow starts for new hardware were always poor decisions and/or poor lineups by the respective console manufacturer; something that is all too common in the video game business. Systems like the PS2 and GBA had no problems to pick up right where their predecessors left off, the same goes for the PS4.

2. The industry stays on the same trajectory as in the seventh generation

The breadth of available retail software will keep getting narrower while the blockbusters will accumulate more sales per individual title. Nothing was done to reverse the fortunes of the middleground games. The market will increasingly shift towards the Call of Duties, Assassin's Creeds, Battlefields, FIFAs and Maddens, not just because people want to play those games, but also because there won't be any real alternatives. Games that do not exist cannot sell, as I like to say.

3. The Wii was the right decision

A lot of people freaked out about Nintendo reconsidering their strategy after the GameCube failure. It wasn't right to make such a console. Worse, it was injustice that it was successful. With the Wii U, if nothing else, everyone gets to see why the Wii was the right move. The spiritual successor to the GameCube sells worse than the GameCube, thus continuing the historic decline of Nintendo home consoles. Although this early in the generation there are still a lot of simpletons who are falling for the Wii branding and mistake the Wii U for a continuation of the Wii.

4. The Wii U will finish in third place

For me, ever since E3 2011, it was only a matter of when, not if, until the PS4 and Xbox Doublespin would overtake the Wii U in hardware sales. Nintendo had laid out their strategy and that's basically all you need to know to make a sensible prediction. That strategy was, in the most simplistic sense, anti-Wii. Nintendo had lost before it even began, so the only question that remained was what Sony and Microsoft would do.

The PS4 was announced to be nothing more than a straight evolution of Sony home consoles, without committing PS3-like blunders in pricing and hardware architecture; and that's really all it takes for Sony to be successful, because they are on very good terms with third parties on a global basis.

Microsoft... well, you all know what they did. We trolled them like there was no tomorrow under the guise of caring about consumer rights. Then they put a $500 price tag on it and that was the moment when I questioned my certainty regarding the Wii U finishing in third place. It's not that that would have made the Wii U sell better, but the result would have changed to the PS4 steamrolling everything. But Microsoft got cold feet after seeing their preorder numbers and fixed as much as possible before launch, so they will be okay to go... in the USA and the UK, because they once again failed to present any sort of strategy to succeed in other countries. But those are big markets, so that's at least something.

5. The 3DS is still failing, because it was conceived with the same philosophy as the Wii U

Right, I shouldn't say the 3DS is failing, because it was the best-selling video game system in 2013. That's what the general consensus is, the 3DS is doing great. But it really isn't. Just like the Wii U's strategy revolved around taking gamers away from Sony and Microsoft, so did the 3DS's strategy revolve around taking gamers away from Sony. And while the 3DS at least succeeded somewhat in its mission (securing Monster Hunter exclusivity helped a lot), it came at the cost of driving away a lot of DS customers. Nintendo certainly noticed some of their errors and tried to fix them, but not everything can be fixed, so not all of the problems will go away.

Another general consensus is that home consoles and handhelds are so different that they should not or cannot be compared, but I beg to differ. Consequently, this means that the Wii U is unfixable and its result is going to be worse than the 3DS's, because it only drove away Wii customers while not picking up anyone else. The Nintendo of the eighth generation doesn't care anymore about expanding gaming which clearly shows in the lack of new IPs (digital-only games don't cut it).

6. The PS4 will be the best-selling home console in every country

Why wouldn't it be? There is no such thing as widespread brand loyalty. If Nintendo could usurp Atari in the USA, Sony Nintendo, Nintendo Sony, and Microsoft Nintendo, then why shouldn't Sony be able to beat Microsoft? Did you have problems to read and comprehend the previous sentence?

7. Nobody gives a damn about the Vita

Even I almost forgot about its existence. Just kidding, I already mentioned its failure briefly earlier in this post.

 

#1 

Too early to call it idiocy.  Ps3 will keep selling strong for years cutting ino ps4 sales.  Also poor line ups don't hurt playstation launches.

 

#2

there's no way to no this until the 8th gen gets exclusives.  The ones out now aren't blockbusters.

 

#3

your inference leaves out the possibility that; consumers who primarily buy 3rd party software would have owned a Wii if Wii could play blockbuster 3rd party games.  Those consumers would later upgrade to the Wii's successor.

 

#4

the Wii is done.  Touching a screen replaced touching the air between you and the tv.  There's nothing to suggest that a Wii strategy would continue working.  It was novel and fun and we got tired of it.  You're implying a touchscreen dual analog strategy was doomed from inception, i can't agree.  I'm enjoying too much, my bias is too thick.

 

 

#5

3ds did capture sony fans and ds gamers are buying too.  It's doing phenomenaly.  Short of making it into a phone with no nubs, there's nothing to be done to keep sudoku and crossword puzzlers.   I can see where 3ds and Wii U came from the same philosophy.  I happen to believe it's the right philosophy.  Wii U will capture the sony audience when it offers the games sony fans want.  Nintendo isn't expanding though, this is true.

 

#6,#7

it's looking that way.



Around the Network

I think you are leaving out many things that you (and other Nintendo people) had predicted would happen with the Xbox1 and PS4 that has not happen nor will ever happen.

1. The high price of the Xbox and PS4 will prevent them from achieving any success in the short term (launch period). PS4 was an exception since the PS3's price was an outlier but I'm sure you did not have these numbers in mind.

2. Since many of the same software titles will be releasing for the Xbox360 and PS3, that will stunt software growth for their successors (and in turn stunt hardware sales). Look at FIFA sales in the UK, November's NPD, hell I'm sure even the upcoming release of Yakuza in Japan, many titles you have the next gen version outselling older titles.

3. The Economies in Europe and the rest of the world will prevent the xbox1 and PS4 from thriving in the short term. All stock markets around the world are near record highs, Germany unemployment at 6.9% is almost 20+ year lows. Many economies while not roaring they are doing well enough for people who purchase games/new consoles.

All three of these events have not happened nor will happen. People like Maelstrom and the guy from Review Tech USA continue to hold the belief that we must wait multiple months to determine a real picture and I say that when that data comes the same result will be present.

What the start of this generation has told me is that:

1. Nintendo as a barometer of the state of the gaming industry is small. Many in the Nintendo camp hold the belief that Nintendo struggling means the overall gaming industry is struggling and that just is not the case.  Nintendo's is continuing its downward path when it comes to their home consoles and are realizing that facing real competetion in the mobile/handheld space does pose problems for them.  The only times Nintendo has had success with home consoles is after a diaster (80s gaming crash) or something extremely new (Wii).  When it has to face competetion face to face (Sega in the 90s, Playstation since 94, Microsoft since 00) they struggle, only relying on a hardcore Nintendo base that is shrinking.

Also Maelstrom believe that the Wii U and 3DS are not cut from the same cloth as the DS and Wii which is pretty much hogwash.

2. The PS3 and Vita had very little in damaging Sony's overall playstation brand.

3. Japan is becoming irrelevant. Japan inc really need to start thinking outside the box and get their main franchises to western shores faster. They need to advertise and localize faster, its where the growth is.

4. The fight for the living room is as fierce as ever.



superchunk said:
Turkish said:
The Wii was dangerous for Nintendo, it allowed them to create the disaster that is the Wii U. Iwata thought they could create another Wii, the audience moved on to mobiles. He lacked the foresight to see the bubble was about to burst.
3rd party problem was never addressed, the Wii was successfull and their own sw sold great, so no need for that.
Nintendo's western branches lost autonomy, Mario was selling and the success of Wii only proved further that things didn't need to change.
He didnt care about online while Sony and MS built their infrastructure since 2005/2006. Nintndo is an entire gen late in the game.
All the problems that could've been addressed a gen earlier, are addressed now, because the Wii made them ignore those small problems.

You missed his point. Wii U is a drastic change from Wii. While you seem to be arguing its the same. Rol is arguing that Nintendo should have continued with Wii's platform and that would have brought success.


Well, Nintendo was obviously looking for another Wii like success, but they couldnt come up with a better idea than a 2nd screen... this time for a homeconsole. Its not like Nintendo did not want another success, no one is arguing that. What other options did they have that wouldnt have cost them too much, they probably looked at a dozen ways to implement a new gimmick and decided the gamepad was the most cost effective(and they still lost money per unit).

Its a shame really, Wii was a brilliant idea that no one thought of previously, true to the vision of Yamauchi's "we dont do what other people do", yet Wii U is a product that looks like it was conceived because of the iPad and tablet revolution. A "me too" product, to get the casuals back that had moved on.



RolStoppable said:

2. The industry stays on the same trajectory as in the seventh generation

The breadth of available retail software will keep getting narrower while the blockbusters will accumulate more sales per individual title. Nothing was done to reverse the fortunes of the middleground games. The market will increasingly shift towards the Call of Duties, Assassin's Creeds, Battlefields, FIFAs and Maddens, not just because people want to play those games, but also because there won't be any real alternatives. Games that do not exist cannot sell, as I like to say.


5. The 3DS is still failing, because it was conceived with the same philosophy as the Wii U

Right, I shouldn't say the 3DS is failing, because it was the best-selling video game system in 2013. That's what the general consensus is, the 3DS is doing great. But it really isn't. Just like the Wii U's strategy revolved around taking gamers away from Sony and Microsoft, so did the 3DS's strategy revolve around taking gamers away from Sony. And while the 3DS at least succeeded somewhat in its mission (securing Monster Hunter exclusivity helped a lot), it came at the cost of driving away a lot of DS customers. Nintendo certainly noticed some of their errors and tried to fix them, but not everything can be fixed, so not all of the problems will go away.

6. The PS4 will be the best-selling home console in every country

Why wouldn't it be? There is no such thing as widespread brand loyalty. If Nintendo could usurp Atari in the USA, Sony Nintendo, Nintendo Sony, and Microsoft Nintendo, then why shouldn't Sony be able to beat Microsoft? Did you have problems to read and comprehend the previous sentence?

7. Nobody gives a damn about the Vita

Even I almost forgot about its existence. Just kidding, I already mentioned its failure briefly earlier in this post.

A few things...

 I disagree with number 2. There is not less middle tier games out. It might seem so because first they are not as visible anymore and second a few of them graduated to top tier games. Also there is the relatively new wave of indies which started last generation but is now in full force and they are selling decently and are great alternatives to AAA titles.

Can you elaborate a bit on what drove DS customers away from the 3DS? Because I'm, not seeing that at all now that the great games are flowing.

There is widespread brand loyality. Well less to the brand and more to the exclusive games and past achievements on predecessors. If it wasn't for the legacy of the PS2 the PS3 would've failed. If it wasn't for the legacy of the 360 the X1 would've failed. You can however shift the odds a bit if your competition is so bad that it will drive customers to you.

PS4 will still have a hard time in the US and Brazil. Also maybe a few really small markets where few sales make big differences. It's quite possible that the PS4 will be behind in a few countries.

The succcess of the Vita will be determined at the end of this year. There are too many unknown variables like games, remote play, PSNow, price cuts, Vita TV. But if it fails this year as well I'm with you on that.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

superchunk said:
oniyide said:
i hear alot of people complain about Wii U being anti Wii and whatever. But what would be an alternative? Where they just supposed to make a more powerful Wii? Pretty sure an actually Wii 2 wouldnt have exactly flown of the shelves either. Would have done better just by the nature of being cheaper but not by much.

That logic would mean every apple iphone iteration should sell like crap too, right? However, apple changes very little and people buy them like crazy every year. (same with galaxy s series now too)

Wii 2
$200-$250
Improved HD capabilities even higher than Wii U
Same Pro controller (IN BOX) is a very cheap way to push at "core" market and 3rd parties
Enhanced wiimote - better tracking/motion and built-in batteries. Also include in box.

Party games like mario party are not system sellers. So Nintendoland-ish game was bad choice.

But a better, larger wii sports/resort plus wii fit u day one would have been better option. Along with the other games of course.

That would have done a lot better, even if I really liked ZombiU and the gamepad in general.

you're comparing phones to home consoles? People need phones, terrible comparison. you know some of those are forced upgrades?

not saying it wouldnt have doen better. but define "lot" cause i pretty sure it wouldnt have come close to the demand of Wii becasue frankly all those enchancements the blue ocean dont care too much about anyway.



Around the Network
superchunk said:
Turkish said:
The Wii was dangerous for Nintendo, it allowed them to create the disaster that is the Wii U. Iwata thought they could create another Wii, the audience moved on to mobiles. He lacked the foresight to see the bubble was about to burst.
3rd party problem was never addressed, the Wii was successfull and their own sw sold great, so no need for that.
Nintendo's western branches lost autonomy, Mario was selling and the success of Wii only proved further that things didn't need to change.
He didnt care about online while Sony and MS built their infrastructure since 2005/2006. Nintndo is an entire gen late in the game.
All the problems that could've been addressed a gen earlier, are addressed now, because the Wii made them ignore those small problems.

You missed his point. Wii U is a drastic change from Wii. While you seem to be arguing its the same. Rol is arguing that Nintendo should have continued with Wii's platform and that would have brought success.

 

In what ways is WiiU a drastic change from Wii ? 

For me Nintendo used the same philosophy for both consoles. Cheap/old hardware + Unique controller.

Difference being that Nintendo doesn't have any game that will sell WiiU to the masses like Wii Sports did with the Wii.



I'm the only that thinks Wii U will finish second? At least until the new Nintendo console to be released... after that it can lost the second place.



Train wreck said:

I think you are leaving out many things that you (and other Nintendo people) had predicted would happen with the Xbox1 and PS4 that has not happen nor will ever happen.

1. The high price of the Xbox and PS4 will prevent them from achieving any success in the short term (launch period). PS4 was an exception since the PS3's price was an outlier but I'm sure you did not have these numbers in mind.

2. Since many of the same software titles will be releasing for the Xbox360 and PS3, that will stunt software growth for their successors (and in turn stunt hardware sales). Look at FIFA sales in the UK, November's NPD, hell I'm sure even the upcoming release of Yakuza in Japan, many titles you have the next gen version outselling older titles.

3. The Economies in Europe and the rest of the world will prevent the xbox1 and PS4 from thriving in the short term. All stock markets around the world are near record highs, Germany unemployment at 6.9% is almost 20+ year lows. Many economies while not roaring they are doing well enough for people who purchase games/new consoles.

but i always knew i'd be wrong



Turkish said:


Well, Nintendo was obviously looking for another Wii like success, but they couldnt come up with a better idea than a 2nd screen... this time for a homeconsole. Its not like Nintendo did not want another success, no one is arguing that. What other options did they have that wouldnt have cost them too much, they probably looked at a dozen ways to implement a new gimmick and decided the gamepad was the most cost effective(and they still lost money per unit).

Its a shame really, Wii was a brilliant idea that no one thought of previously, true to the vision of Yamauchi's "we dont do what other people do", yet Wii U is a product that looks like it was conceived because of the iPad and tablet revolution. A "me too" product, to get the casuals back that had moved on.

 

Nintndos failure with the wiiU is its software.

Wii had WiiSsports which showed of what the Wii is about perfectly, it wagglefied the casuals and showed the world motion gaming.  WiiU has.... a side scrolling Mario/Luigi, now a 3d AMrio neither one shows me why the hell I need a screen on my controller.  

Ex of what id want and If Ninty was competant.

They would have made a racer like GT or Forza, but more fun and cartooni(nintyish) but based on real physics.  And they would have made the controller like a F1 steering wheel.  Give me ability to mess with the game and set ups right there on the pad.  Thus eliminating sub menues and letting me mess with stuff on the fly while in game.  AKA ability to raise boost on cars on the screen, or suspention setting.

turn this 


 

into this, now that be SICK SICK SICK




ethomaz said:
I'm the only that thinks Wii U will finish second? At least until the new Nintendo console to be released... after that it can lost the second place.


MS is to proud to settle for 3rd palce, they will spend their way to a respectable 2nd place while Ninty seems content with reliving the 6th gen.