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Forums - Sony Discussion - Low clock speed a challenge for PS4 development too (Project CARS dev)

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curl-6 on 23 December 2013
Aerys said:

It is, of course, you dont think you should clarify in your title " compared to PC " lol , because you know the thread would be useless in that way " PC > console ? Genius "

Technically, PS4's clock speed is low compared to PS3/360 as well, like all the 8th gen consoles.



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curl-6 on 23 December 2013
Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:

Jaguar does only 1 IPC? I was unaware of this. So they rely on a higher core count in the same way PS3/360 relied on high clock speed?

Also, didn't the guy who hacked Wii U and revealed its clockspeed say it did 2 or 3 IPC? (Though it has only three cores)


It was an example.

There is more to IPC than the decoding stages anyway. (Which Jaguar sits at 2.)

PS3/360 did rely on clockspeed (And at the time, core counts) to make up for their IPC deficit.

I confess I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to tech; I know a little bit, but the extent of my IPC knowledge is "how many instructions a CPU can execute in one clock cycle".



Scoobes on 23 December 2013
curl-6 said:
Pemalite said:
curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
Great article, but multi threading difficulties are no news. Time for devs to start optimizingg (Remember johnattan blow)

This is the first I've heard of devs have difficulties with PS4's clock speed, so unless I missed something, it's news in that sense.

It was foreseeable though, given the issues Wii U had with the same problem, and the lower clock speeds of PS4/Xbone compared to PS3/360.


The CPU clockspeed isn't actually the problem.
It's the IPC or Instructions Per Clock, Jaguar falls flat on it's face in that regard.
For example... Jaguar might be able to execute 1 instruction per mhz, where-as AMD's Trinity might be able to execute 4 instructions per mhz, thus at the same "mhz/ghz" rating, Trinity would be 4x as fast. (This is why the Pentium 4/D fell on it's face.)

Jaguar does only 1 IPC? I was unaware of this. So they rely on a higher core count in the same way PS3/360 relied on high clock speed?

Also, didn't the guy who hacked Wii U and revealed its clockspeed say it did 2 or 3 IPC? (Though it has only three cores)

I think those numbers were simply for example. I don't know anywhere that's actually revealed numbers for average IPC of the Jaguar cores but I've read it's up to 22% higher than Bobcat.




Get your Portable ID!

Hynad on 23 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:
zarx said:
fatslob-:O said:

Just implement the AMD mantle then.

Mantle is just bringing PC APIs to the point where console APIs already are.

 

True but then again consoles also have high level APIs too. 


What do you mean? PS4's GNM is a low level API. Yeah, there's the wrapper API. But coding to the metal is entirely possible on the PS4. Something that isn't entirely possible with the XBO since it's relying exclusively on a high level API. Even if MS is touting features that bring the XBO's version of DX11 to "close to metal" level.



curl-6 on 23 December 2013
Scoobes said:

I think those numbers were simply for example. I don't know anywhere that's actually revealed numbers for average IPC of the Jaguar cores but I've read it's up to 22% higher than Bobcat.

Ah, alrighty. It surprised me, because with a modern CPU I expected IPC to be better than that. If it's already clocked low, and had low IPC to boot, its only salvation would be its high core count.



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Aerys on 23 December 2013
curl-6 said:
Aerys said:

It is, of course, you dont think you should clarify in your title " compared to PC " lol , because you know the thread would be useless in that way " PC > console ? Genius "

Technically, PS4's clock speed is low compared to PS3/360 as well, like all the 8th gen consoles.


and what's the point ? you think it would be easier to develop on PS3/360 because of that  lol ?

This gen will be GPU centric, developers will have to deal with that

 



Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:

 PS4: 17m   XB1: 10m    WiiU: 10m   Vita: 10m

 

Scoobes on 23 December 2013
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:
zarx said:
fatslob-:O said:

Just implement the AMD mantle then.

Mantle is just bringing PC APIs to the point where console APIs already are.

 

True but then again consoles also have high level APIs too. 


What do you mean? PS4's GNM is a low level API.

I believe it's down to the developer. Whilst the API allows low level access, for ease of porting and deadlines it seems unlikely any devs have made use of it except first parties.




Get your Portable ID!

Hynad on 23 December 2013
Scoobes said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:

True but then again consoles also have high level APIs too. 


What do you mean? PS4's GNM is a low level API.

I believe it's down to the developer. Whilst the API allows low level access, for ease of porting and deadlines it seems unlikely any devs have made use of it except first parties.

In the first few years of the console cycle, sure. But after that, I think we'll see a lot of devs doing it. I don't think coding to the metal on the PS4 will be as difficult and time consuming as it is with the PS3.



curl-6 on 23 December 2013
Aerys said:
curl-6 said:
Aerys said:

It is, of course, you dont think you should clarify in your title " compared to PC " lol , because you know the thread would be useless in that way " PC > console ? Genius "

Technically, PS4's clock speed is low compared to PS3/360 as well, like all the 8th gen consoles.


and what's the point ? you think it would be easier to develop on PS3/360 because of that  lol ?

This gen will be GPU centric, developers will have to deal with that

This gen will indeed be GPU centric, this is true. But for devs accustomed to higher CPU clock speeds and more reliance on doing things on the CPU, it could be a challenging transition. We've already seen them struggle with the Wii U in this regard.



curl-6 on 23 December 2013
Hynad said:
Scoobes said:
Hynad said:
fatslob-:O said:

True but then again consoles also have high level APIs too. 


What do you mean? PS4's GNM is a low level API.

I believe it's down to the developer. Whilst the API allows low level access, for ease of porting and deadlines it seems unlikely any devs have made use of it except first parties.

In the first few years of the console cycle, sure. But after that, I think we'll see a lot of devs doing it. I don't think coding to the metal on the PS4 will be as difficult and time consuming as it is with the PS3.

It's 99.9% certain that PS4 will be easier to max out than PS3 was. Devs have already talked at length about how much easier it is to program for. Sony definitely learned from their past mistakes there.