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Forums - Sony Discussion - Low clock speed a challenge for PS4 development too (Project CARS dev)

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curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
Great article, but multi threading difficulties are no news. Time for devs to start optimizingg (Remember johnattan blow)

This is the first I've heard of devs have difficulties with PS4's clock speed, so unless I missed something, it's news in that sense.

It was foreseeable though, given the issues Wii U had with the same problem, and the lower clock speeds of PS4/Xbone compared to PS3/360.


It is compared to a high end PC, not ps360. ps3 had a 550mhz clocked GPU, ps4 is clocked at +-853mhz

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.



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RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.

The preceding sentence in the article says they're talking about both CPU and GPU.



curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.

The preceding sentence in the article says they're talking about both CPU and GPU.

No, they are ASKED if it's challenging about CPU threads and GPU computer units, and they ANSWER only about rendering, so on GPU, so it seems they have no problem with multi thread on CPU (that's second year IT student stuff, on a bigger scale, but still, and they do have to do it on pc too anyway, 4 threads is the standard now) or minors one, and bigger problems with the GPU's 18 CUs, wich is totally understandable.



RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.

The preceding sentence in the article says they're talking about both CPU and GPU.

No, they are ASKED if it's challenging about CPU threads and GPU computer units, and they ANSWER only about rendering, so on GPU, so it seems they have no problem with multi thread on CPU (that's second year IT student stuff, on a bigger scale, but still, and they do have to do it on pc too anyway, 4 threads is the standard now) or minors one, and bigger problems with the GPU's 18 CUs, wich is totally understandable.

They said "cores" not "compute units".



Bristow9091 said:
So they're complaining because they're having to program for multiple cores?

... It's about fucking time! How long have we had multi-core processors, and how many games actually take advantage of them? The amount of games that use multiple cores are still in the minority, yet processors are having an increased amount... look at AMD with their eight cores (What the PS4/One are using, lol), developers need to get with the times!

Games are already programming for multiple cores - it's not like every 360 game used only 1 of its cores.Read closer what was said:

"It’s been challenging splitting the renderer further across threads in an even more fine-grained manner – even splitting already-small tasks into 2-3ms chunks."

Splitting it FURTHER. It's already split. Multi core PCs will generally have cores of 2.33-3+ Ghz functioning. PS4 is what, 1.6ghz? Some tasks naturally lend themselves to being split off, and some tasks lend themselves to being on a single core. The issue is that tasks which heavily favor being on a single core suddenly need to be split as well.



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yes, slow clock speed are common on all 3 new gen systems, thats going to be a problem with the devs that worked with ps3 and x360, they say the same on the wiiu front, they have to accomodate to this "new" console tech, GPGPU is the "new" frontier. And yeah ps4 have an awfull slow cpu ;) just like xbone and wiiu.



34 years playing games.

 

RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.

The preceding sentence in the article says they're talking about both CPU and GPU.

No, they are ASKED if it's challenging about CPU threads and GPU computer units, and they ANSWER only about rendering, so on GPU, so it seems they have no problem with multi thread on CPU (that's second year IT student stuff, on a bigger scale, but still, and they do have to do it on pc too anyway, 4 threads is the standard now) or minors one, and bigger problems with the GPU's 18 CUs, wich is totally understandable.

LOL most those guys would have finished their IT education before it was second year stuff at school. Courses evolve with technology and game developers also have to otherwise they will fall behind and become insignificant.



 

 

Cobretti2 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:
RenCutypoison said:
curl-6 said:

PS4's CPU runs at around 1.6Ghz, just half of the PS3 and 360's 3.2GHz CPUs.

They are talking about rendering and high end PC. I never heard about 3D rendering on CPU or devs optimizing the game on PC for single core 3GHZ CPU.

The preceding sentence in the article says they're talking about both CPU and GPU.

No, they are ASKED if it's challenging about CPU threads and GPU computer units, and they ANSWER only about rendering, so on GPU, so it seems they have no problem with multi thread on CPU (that's second year IT student stuff, on a bigger scale, but still, and they do have to do it on pc too anyway, 4 threads is the standard now) or minors one, and bigger problems with the GPU's 18 CUs, wich is totally understandable.

LOL most those guys would have finished their IT education before it was second year stuff at school. Courses evolve with technology and game developers also have to otherwise they will fall behind and become insignificant.


Of course they need to adapt permanently. Imagine a doctor using 50's medical knowledge to treat you, that would be unthinkable. That's just one of these jobs where you can't just live in a cave and expect nothing to change.



zarx said:
GabeN was right back in 2005 multi-threaded programing is still an issue all these years later. Splitting code up so that it executes across multiple threads is really really hard to do with many tasks. Some things just have to be done serially.

It's a pity that we still haven't replaced silicone yet. The GHz wall it imposes has pretty much forced the CPU industry to go for more cores to maintain any meaningful performance increases. And while that is good for many tasks it's just not suitable for everything. I can't wait for graphene or nanotube processors with 10x higher clocks.

This. While multiuser, multitasking and DSP (including graphics) mainstream applications and supercomputing ones started using available parallelism quite early, single user mainstream SW, including games, often hogged single core's power, but almost always lagged behind what HW offered in terms of parallel computing power, and this affects games the most, as they need most of the computing power available on a machine, and outside of easily parallelisable tasks as graphics, the performance of a single core can still be a bottleneck for intrinsicly serial tasks. Better libraries and dev tools can help, developers learning to identify and reduce intrinsicly serial parts to the bare minimum can help even more. For some AI parts, using fuzzy logic and devising AI that can work on partial data, to reduce mutual dependencies, could help too, while mission and quest files could specify when conditions must be met more strictly for the correct advancement of plots, missions and quests.



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