Look, she's not getting all that money for free.

She'll still have to take care of the kids, so it's not like it doesn't have consequences for her actions.

Whenever there is a system where everyone "chips in", those who administrate the system, make sure to put some in their pocket. Socialism and other collective systems always fail because they contradict human nature.

Explain how current non-US socialist systems are failures.

Yeah, I doubt anyone in the actual 1% visits VGchartz especially to talk about political/economic/social issues.

Most people on here are closer to working class people.

I myself grew up dirt ass poor and and have worked my way into a Nursing career and a decent lifestyle. I KNOW for a fact that there are people who are looking for a hand out.I saw them all the way through my childhood and teen years up to today where I see some of the worst abusers of the system come through the medical system.

Not sure if you pay taxes but I do and it is a F@#* load of money coming out of my pocket away from my own kids' mouths to pay for services most of which my family will never have access to.

You see, I have been working hard, busting my hump to care for others, serve my country (I nursed in the Army as well) and all the while I have to pay double duties. So you'll have to forgive me when I tell you that it burns me up to see someone use a statement so ignorant such as yours to denegrate actual tax paying working people. People who are busy contributing to society and creating stuff or providing services for OTHER people while being kicked around by people such as yourself because they would like to KEEP the fruits of their labor.

People such as yourself are why the poor get ever poorer and the cycle of pverty will never be broken. Your's is the hand that is holding the poor down. A hand-out is a chain attached to an anchor. When we expect little form others that is exactly what we get!

If we all gave into "human nature", there'd be riots on the streets and total anarchy. We need to strive to achieve some sort of higher ground imo. We have the ability, but it all starts at birth and that's the problem. Until parents decide that the next generation is going to be better than the last, we're all going to suffer.

Still, even though it's imperfect, imo...countries such as Canada are much closer to where we all need to be than the US where the poor struggle and starve and the elderly are all but forgotten trash that's tossed under a rug and left to die. This notion of "feed the rich and bury the poor" HAS to go if we're going to move forward as a human race.

You're *lucky* your family won't have access to those services. If welfare was such a paradise, more people would go on it. Your payment for welfare programs, in moral terms, is acknowledgement because those who are dependent on these programs could just as easily be you, but for a twist of fate.

The poor are not really getting poorer, btw, just comparatively due to upward wealth hoarding. It's the middle class that's getting crushed as the 20th century social contract is torn to threads.

The argument isn't whether welfare is a paradise because it isn't which is one reason I find it so insidious. It catches those who fall victim to its promise of a better life in its clutches. It perpetuates a cycle that recreates poverty in more ways than just monetary. As I said I grew up in pverty saw it first hand and I am "lucky" or I would say blessed in that I was able to see through it all and get away from the thought process that the world owes me a living and that I had a welfare check coming to me just because it came to my mother twice a month.

I also find it rather laughable that I am "lucky" that I have to pay for services that my family won't need. In moral terms, welfare is a program that plunders those who work and earn their money/resources to those who don't. If I want to be "moral" with my money (which I believe I am BTW because I do give as it is part of my faith) I will give to charity or DIRECTLY help those in need. Not send my resources into the black hole of a government bureaucracy for the already rich and powerful to take a cut before sending the scraps to the truely needy.

Welfare is a shell game played by con-artist politicians and doe slittle to actually help the poor. If you want to help the poor go out and help the por. Volunteer at a soup kitchen, donate clothing or food, help them get into mental health and rehab programs. Don't send your resources to a faceless unaccountable bureaucracy and call it good.

As for your last statement on the poor getting poorer that would take a whole other thread to be quite honest but I can say as a so-called middle class person ( I detest the labels as the allow for envy between those of certain income levels) I sure am being squeezed which I assume you point out as if it is a bad thing so apparently we are in total agreement then that welfare is crappy. Whether its welfare for the poor or the rich, both of which very much exsist.

Nowhere does the dole promise a "better" life, in the sense of something desirable. What it does is prevent abject destitution, the kind of indignity that no human should have to endure. Society as a whole does owe that much to every citizen.

Realistically, the 21st century social contract should include a negative income tax to provide a guaranteed minimum income.

And the problem is it doesn't even do that!

Where do you find the origin of this debt you describe as "owing to every citizen?" At what point did anyone sign a contract obligating them to pay into a sink-hole of a government program to provide monetary compensation to those who are "less fortunate?" Wealth redistibution is a lie and a sham on it's face. Every dollar sent to the centralized government losses a precentage due to bureaucratic nonsense like administrative costs redirecting monies to fund other projects etc. etc. etc. As I said, if you just took time out of your day to volunteer or supported non-profits (voluntarily) who specialize in helping the poor they would be better off and so would the rest of us.

I feel the need of my own volition to help those less fortunate than myself. However no worldy body has the right to tell me (the force of law does not make it right) that I am obligated in any way. For charity is not charity when it is forced that is called stealing my friend. I understand your compassion for those less fortunate, I share it with you as I was once one of them, and not wanting to see someone subjected to "abject destitution' but no amount of welfare will see that abolished.

If you feel the need to help others, help others simple as that.

I don't agree with the UK benefit as it is simply on the basis that we can't afford it and like most of Europe, USA, Australia, Canada etc we are spending more than we have in the pot.

I certainly agree with benefits in principle but with the decline of wages the difference between working and not working is quite small in lifestyle. It certainly annoys me that politicians fund benefits with debt that future generations have to pay with no actual idea if those future generations will actually be able to afford those payments. Totally irresponsible. Benefits should be a lifeline not a lifestyle choice. Children should be protected, ensured they have good medical treatment, are properly fed and educated and have a roof over their head. That's difficult to do without the parents also benefitting. There are loads of policies that could address many of these issues though.

This is one of those situations that can't continue as its not financially possible. The later we leave it the more extreme the adjustment will have to be.