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Forums - Nintendo - Do you agree with this point of view?

burninmylight on 15 December 2013
MarcellusMighty said:
I don't agree with any of this. In fact, I would argue that the big reason for PS4 and Xbox One's success is pure, manipulative marketing. Xbox COMPELS you because you see it everywhere around you. It sponsors sodas, fast food, football, soccer.... it's literally everywhere. It's so saturated that I'm sick of seeing it. PS4 is not so spread out, but the message is very compelling. Both had great, powerful marketing campaigns. What about the Wii U?

It failed on all levels in terms of marketing. Spend the money, take out a few ads during football games or at least on main broadcast channels that focus on young adults having fun, not children with families. That's what they did with Wii back in 2006 (anyone remember?) and it took off, bolstered by the curiosity surrounding the Remote and motion controls.

I was in Target today, and saw three big marketing fails. First, the signs above the Wii AND Wii U software say Wii U, with no distinguishing marks. A casual person, having not been exposed to the marketing I mentioned above, would ask what the difference was (lo and behold, the man in the aisle asked what the difference was between the Wii and Wii U version of a game). Second, the Wii and Wii U consoles are bunched together on the shelves, close together. There is no identifier making it clear that one is newer and shinier. And the freaking Wii Mini is sitting right above the Mario/Luigi Deluxe set. Finally, the demo station set-up is hard to navigate and by attempting to give passers-by options instead of catering a focused, awesome experience, looks confusing and uninteresting.

So, on topic, NO. It has nothing to do with the fad or casuals moving on. Casuals have NO AWARENESS WHATSOEVER of the Wii U or what it is, and as much as I love Nintendo, they utterly have failed to react properly to this. The software library is there, and growing. Now, make people aware of it! Jeez. You would think it is common sense.


Excellent post.  Whoever thought the name "Wii U" would be a good idea should be slapped. Just replacing the "U" with a "2" would have made a huge difference.



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MarcellusMighty on 15 December 2013

I don't think the name is necessarily awful. Wii U sounds different enough... but only if you know WHY it's named that way. There are so many things you can manipulate with the 'U'. 'How U Will Play Next' wasn't a bad slogan. 'Wii would like to play with U'.... it's all about execution. I absolutely agree that the name, without the proper marketing, is awful, but only because the necessary support wasn't there. A '2' eliminates most of the confusion caused by misguided marketing efforts, but doesn't make the system necessarily more compelling on its own. It's all about the perception, and the push created by the marketers. For the young adult (I'm 21), unless they're in the loop, then they won't want it, even if it was named Ultra Nintendo HD.



Soundwave on 16 December 2013
MarcellusMighty said:
I don't agree with any of this. In fact, I would argue that the big reason for PS4 and Xbox One's success is pure, manipulative marketing. Xbox COMPELS you because you see it everywhere around you. It sponsors sodas, fast food, football, soccer.... it's literally everywhere. It's so saturated that I'm sick of seeing it. PS4 is not so spread out, but the message is very compelling. Both had great, powerful marketing campaigns. What about the Wii U?

It failed on all levels in terms of marketing. Spend the money, take out a few ads during football games or at least on main broadcast channels that focus on young adults having fun, not children with families. That's what they did with Wii back in 2006 (anyone remember?) and it took off, bolstered by the curiosity surrounding the Remote and motion controls.

I was in Target today, and saw three big marketing fails. First, the signs above the Wii AND Wii U software say Wii U, with no distinguishing marks. A casual person, having not been exposed to the marketing I mentioned above, would ask what the difference was (lo and behold, the man in the aisle asked what the difference was between the Wii and Wii U version of a game). Second, the Wii and Wii U consoles are bunched together on the shelves, close together. There is no identifier making it clear that one is newer and shinier. And the freaking Wii Mini is sitting right above the Mario/Luigi Deluxe set. Finally, the demo station set-up is hard to navigate and by attempting to give passers-by options instead of catering a focused, awesome experience, looks confusing and uninteresting.

So, on topic, NO. It has nothing to do with the fad or casuals moving on. Casuals have NO AWARENESS WHATSOEVER of the Wii U or what it is, and as much as I love Nintendo, they utterly have failed to react properly to this. The software library is there, and growing. Now, make people aware of it! Jeez. You would think it is common sense.


The original Wii didn't have tons of cross promotion either though, so I don't think that's the issue. 

I've had friends over to play the Wii U, ones who own a Wii, and they've even had fun with Nintendo Land, but they're not going out to buy one for themselves. 

There are Wii Us out there and I'm sure people invite friends/family over to play, the word of mouth is just not spreading. 

They did market a reasonable amount this holiday season too, I started to see a lot more Wii U TV commercials. 

The casual market doesn't play by the same rules as the core market. They are harder to predict. They may like something one day and be over it the next day. 

It's not like core gamers where if they like Zelda or Halo or Assassin's Creed or Uncharted they basically must have the next system to play the next installments of those games on. 

The casual market IMO behaves much more like the music industry ... one day something's hot, 3-5 years later it cools off. That doesn't just apply to Nintendo ... watch Just Dance and Angry Birds will in 2-3 years be yesterday's news, just like Guitar Hero. 



oniyide on 16 December 2013
Soundwave said:
MarcellusMighty said:
I don't agree with any of this. In fact, I would argue that the big reason for PS4 and Xbox One's success is pure, manipulative marketing. Xbox COMPELS you because you see it everywhere around you. It sponsors sodas, fast food, football, soccer.... it's literally everywhere. It's so saturated that I'm sick of seeing it. PS4 is not so spread out, but the message is very compelling. Both had great, powerful marketing campaigns. What about the Wii U?

It failed on all levels in terms of marketing. Spend the money, take out a few ads during football games or at least on main broadcast channels that focus on young adults having fun, not children with families. That's what they did with Wii back in 2006 (anyone remember?) and it took off, bolstered by the curiosity surrounding the Remote and motion controls.

I was in Target today, and saw three big marketing fails. First, the signs above the Wii AND Wii U software say Wii U, with no distinguishing marks. A casual person, having not been exposed to the marketing I mentioned above, would ask what the difference was (lo and behold, the man in the aisle asked what the difference was between the Wii and Wii U version of a game). Second, the Wii and Wii U consoles are bunched together on the shelves, close together. There is no identifier making it clear that one is newer and shinier. And the freaking Wii Mini is sitting right above the Mario/Luigi Deluxe set. Finally, the demo station set-up is hard to navigate and by attempting to give passers-by options instead of catering a focused, awesome experience, looks confusing and uninteresting.

So, on topic, NO. It has nothing to do with the fad or casuals moving on. Casuals have NO AWARENESS WHATSOEVER of the Wii U or what it is, and as much as I love Nintendo, they utterly have failed to react properly to this. The software library is there, and growing. Now, make people aware of it! Jeez. You would think it is common sense.


The original Wii didn't have tons of cross promotion either though, so I don't think that's the issue. 

I've had friends over to play the Wii U, ones who own a Wii, and they've even had fun with Nintendo Land, but they're not going out to buy one for themselves. 

There are Wii Us out there and I'm sure people invite friends/family over to play, the word of mouth is just not spreading. 

They did market a reasonable amount this holiday season too, I started to see a lot more Wii U TV commercials. 

The casual market doesn't play by the same rules as the core market. They are harder to predict. They may like something one day and be over it the next day. 

It's not like core gamers where if they like Zelda or Halo or Assassin's Creed or Uncharted they basically must have the next system to play the next installments of those games on. 

The casual market IMO behaves much more like the music industry ... one day something's hot, 3-5 years later it cools off. That doesn't just apply to Nintendo ... watch Just Dance and Angry Birds will in 2-3 years be yesterday's news, just like Guitar Hero. 

This. People still believe that there is confusion. there is little confusion. How could there be when just about every GS, Target, BB, Walmart has a Wii U station. People know about it, they just dont care and that is a sad reality some dont want to accept



Mr Puggsly on 16 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:

How do you know that this is a safe bet ? Despite the fact that the original iteration had sold around 30 million, what happened to the rest of the kinect game sales ? The only reason people are buying kinect is because of kinect adventures. Kinect sports and dance central seem okay on it but alot of the software is bombing and flopping. We need microsoft to put out relevant software for it so that PS360 gamers stop ignoring the relevance just like they stopped ignoring the WII. Kinect has potential but if microsoft does nothing but give worthless software in the eyes of the masses then how does microsoft expect to expand the gaming audience ? They need to try harder much like nintendo did with the WII. 


Well a lot of software bombs on all platforms. Fable The Journey was a solid game, but it flopped.

MS probably isn't going to bring core experiences many PS360 gamers enjoy to Kinect.  But that's fine for me, Kinect games should focus on doing things that are unique. A lot of core gamers complain about the many genres Kinect isn't good for, but ignore Kinect has been used to give experiences that a gamepad can't emulate.

Ultimately, Kinect isn't for everyone and for that reason I anticipate MS will inevitably exclude it.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

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oniyide on 16 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
I believe if Nintendo released the Wii U with just a Wiimote it would have sold a lot better. I don't feel the Wii was a fad, people just lost interest due to lack of compelling software. Nintendo tried to do something innovative and it backfired. To the contrary, Sony isn't really doing anything new and people love them for that.

I disagree with what was said about the Kinect. I feel MS is really happy with how well the new Kinect works and bundling it encourages developers to use it. The new Kinect is a cutting edge device that separates X1 from the competition. Even if it wasn't bundled, I'm sure it could sell 20 million again.

Anyhow, I am certain MS is going to exclude the Kinect in the future. I set up my X1 without even having Kinect connected. MS is already prepared to exclude it.

you sound bitter.

As for the rest I dont agree that a WII 2 would have done much better. Better? sure, but people just were not as excited for motion controls as they were when WIi first came out. Software had little to do with it, they were getting software, but they werent buying as much. One just has to look at stuff like Carnival games and Deca Sports and you'll see the decline despite the user base getting bigger.



fatslob-:O on 16 December 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
fatslob-:O said:

How do you know that this is a safe bet ? Despite the fact that the original iteration had sold around 30 million, what happened to the rest of the kinect game sales ? The only reason people are buying kinect is because of kinect adventures. Kinect sports and dance central seem okay on it but alot of the software is bombing and flopping. We need microsoft to put out relevant software for it so that PS360 gamers stop ignoring the relevance just like they stopped ignoring the WII. Kinect has potential but if microsoft does nothing but give worthless software in the eyes of the masses then how does microsoft expect to expand the gaming audience ? They need to try harder much like nintendo did with the WII. 


Well a lot of software bombs on all platforms. Fable The Journey was a solid game, but it flopped.

MS probably isn't going to bring core experiences many PS360 gamers enjoy to Kinect.  But that's fine for me, Kinect games should focus on doing things that are unique. A lot of core gamers complain about the many genres Kinect isn't good for, but ignore Kinect has been used to give experiences that a gamepad can't emulate.

Ultimately, Kinect isn't for everyone and for that reason I anticipate MS will inevitably exclude it.

None of it has to be this way. I just ask of cool software that microsoft can bring more of like kinect adventures. Microsoft could atleast try and be more ambitious. Just like how nintendo found out the WII mote could be used for serious things FPSs, action games, and all types of other games. Their has to be a way for microsoft to shine. I think kinect could be alot of use in real time strategy games. Instead of using a god awful controller to navigate the units, voice commands can become a more intuitive way of handling the gameplay. I smell some potential where RTSs can be cool again on consoles but alas microsoft won't even attempt this.



Mr Puggsly on 16 December 2013
oniyide said:
Mr Puggsly said:
I believe if Nintendo released the Wii U with just a Wiimote it would have sold a lot better. I don't feel the Wii was a fad, people just lost interest due to lack of compelling software. Nintendo tried to do something innovative and it backfired. To the contrary, Sony isn't really doing anything new and people love them for that.

I disagree with what was said about the Kinect. I feel MS is really happy with how well the new Kinect works and bundling it encourages developers to use it. The new Kinect is a cutting edge device that separates X1 from the competition. Even if it wasn't bundled, I'm sure it could sell 20 million again.

Anyhow, I am certain MS is going to exclude the Kinect in the future. I set up my X1 without even having Kinect connected. MS is already prepared to exclude it.

you sound bitter.

As for the rest I dont agree that a WII 2 would have done much better. Better? sure, but people just were not as excited for motion controls as they were when WIi first came out. Software had little to do with it, they were getting software, but they werent buying as much. One just has to look at stuff like Carnival games and Deca Sports and you'll see the decline despite the user base getting bigger.


No, that was an objective comment. You buy a PS4 and you basically just get a console and a gamepad, no cameras, no tablet, or other expensive wacky gadgets. Bitterness is your interpretation.

We both agree the Wii U would have sold better if just bundled with a Wiimote, but I didn't imply they would have crushed the competition.

As I've said many times before, there is no direct correlation between userbase and software sales. Mario Galaxy 2 sold less than 1, Killzone 3 sold less than 2, Resistance 3 sold less than 2, Uncharted 3 is struggling to achieve Uncharted 2 sales, Forza 4 sold less than 3, Skyward Sword sold less than Twilight Princess, Just Dance 4 sold less than 3 on all platforms, etc... etc...



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

S.T.A.G.E. on 16 December 2013
areason said:
Nintendo never went for the casuals, they tried to be innovative with the wii but failed to attract the "core" gamers or so called "loyal customers" that would become big fans. The 360 gained a lot of fans last generation, and that is helping microsoft a lot with the one.

Nintendo's biggest problem is that the only people who are interested in nintendo style games are nintendo fans. Their software line ups aren't appealing to other gamers compared to what the x1/ps4 will have.

Yes....Nintendo went after non-gamers. The more you simplify any medium the larger your demographic becomes. 
http://www.marsdd.com/articles/case-study-changing-the-game-lessons-from-nintendo-s-wii/

Specific quotation under the case study of Nintendo Wii's success:

"With the Wii, Nintendo hoped to attract non-gamer customer segments to the market. Nintendo targeted women, families and all those not typically associated with “serious” gaming. In the words of Nintendo’s president, the Wii market is “teeming with women, pensioners and repentant couch potatoes.” By changing their value proposition, which before might have been “delivering intensely realistic gaming experiences for the hardcore gamer,” to focus on delivering fun, interactive entertainment for the whole family, Nintendo revolutionized the gaming market and won a valuable new customer segment while earning superior profit margins."



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 December 2013
MarcellusMighty said:
I don't agree with any of this. In fact, I would argue that the big reason for PS4 and Xbox One's success is pure, manipulative marketing. Xbox COMPELS you because you see it everywhere around you. It sponsors sodas, fast food, football, soccer.... it's literally everywhere. It's so saturated that I'm sick of seeing it. PS4 is not so spread out, but the message is very compelling. Both had great, powerful marketing campaigns. What about the Wii U?

It failed on all levels in terms of marketing. Spend the money, take out a few ads during football games or at least on main broadcast channels that focus on young adults having fun, not children with families. That's what they did with Wii back in 2006 (anyone remember?) and it took off, bolstered by the curiosity surrounding the Remote and motion controls.

I was in Target today, and saw three big marketing fails. First, the signs above the Wii AND Wii U software say Wii U, with no distinguishing marks. A casual person, having not been exposed to the marketing I mentioned above, would ask what the difference was (lo and behold, the man in the aisle asked what the difference was between the Wii and Wii U version of a game). Second, the Wii and Wii U consoles are bunched together on the shelves, close together. There is no identifier making it clear that one is newer and shinier. And the freaking Wii Mini is sitting right above the Mario/Luigi Deluxe set. Finally, the demo station set-up is hard to navigate and by attempting to give passers-by options instead of catering a focused, awesome experience, looks confusing and uninteresting.

So, on topic, NO. It has nothing to do with the fad or casuals moving on. Casuals have NO AWARENESS WHATSOEVER of the Wii U or what it is, and as much as I love Nintendo, they utterly have failed to react properly to this. The software library is there, and growing. Now, make people aware of it! Jeez. You would think it is common sense.


Ok fine...let Nintendo make the non-gamers "aware". They'll wonder where the Wii-mote is by virtue of the name itself. Non-gamers don't want a thirteen button contrller with a tablet in it. Its too sophisticated of a product, which makes it more attractive to the core gamer.  Non-gamers can do the extent of what they like with their Ipads, alternative tablets, and cellphones.

Microsoft is a very manipulative company, but then again they are the richest of the big three. Expect them to have superior marketing to the competition. If they didn't i'd be quite surprised and so should you. Their  main turf  is that of the most rabid consumer base in the world and they understand sales and marketing techniques for America better than anyone else. Regardless of all of the noise, Nintendo had the stable third party following, then they flocked to Sony and grew two fold, then Microsoft came and segmented that expanded marketshare. When you look at it Sony caused the marketshare of gaming to expand and grow to be more stable. What manipulation could cause such loyalty? It's called having a demographic that has value in A or B's product (IE: Market A: Videogame fanatics/ B: Multimedia/tech fanatics). Nintendo created a new market that without the simplicity would not care for gaming. Look it up in any analyst resource...they created a new market in which the focus was the non-gamer. Because of this they deserve their success but on the other side of the coin they also deserve the fact that they don't have their loyalty and the people decided not to return.