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Forums - Nintendo - Why Nintendo's software can no longer carry their home consoles...

mysteryman on 11 December 2013
Zero999 said:
mysteryman said:
blessedswine said:
when was the last time nintendo introduced us to a brand New Character, not a rehashed character in a new setting? i honestly cant think of a new character in Nintendo's Stable, where with Sony you have Drake and the Infamous guy, who were introduced last gen. with MS you got the Master Chief and maybe others i dont know about(im not a xbox fan) but with nintendo it seems you see the same old guys, Mario, Luigi, Link, & DK

I mentioned this previosuly, but what is the difference between a new IP and using an existing character/world in a completely new way?

the difference is that the second option gives haters an excuse to pathetically say nintendo rehashes their games. but for them, it's totaly okay when other companies make the same games, slap a different character in it, and call it a new ip.

At least someone gets it.



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Podings on 12 December 2013
sales2099 said:
I see this as a Gamecube gen waiting to happen....when even Mario Kart Double Dash couldn't save it.


Couldn't save it from what, exactly?

 

The system made a profit on the whole, the many Mario titles being a large part of that.



S.Peelman on 12 December 2013
Captain_Tom said:
S.Peelman said:
Always the 'IP's' argument.

Guess why Sony makes so many new IP's? If they had something that would actually sell as many numbers as Mario, they'd milk it just as much as Nintendo does. And besides, Nintendo makes plenty.

And I don't really get what the OP's trying to say anyway, it's not like any of the other consoles are fundamentally different and offer truly new experiences. Face it people, gaming has been mostly the same since the 5th Gen.

So there were games exactly like MAG, Assassin's Creed, Little Big Planet, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and hell even Gears of War on PS2?

Before you point fingers at other people, you should maybe try and actually justify why you are not wrong first.  Otherwise right out of the gate you are saying: "I can't come up with a convincing argument for why he/she is wrong, but look those other people are wrong too!"

What does this post have to do with what I said?



S.Peelman on 12 December 2013
oniyide said:
Captain_Tom said:
S.Peelman said:
Always the 'IP's' argument.

Guess why Sony makes so many new IP's? If they had something that would actually sell as many numbers as Mario, they'd milk it just as much as Nintendo does. And besides, Nintendo makes plenty.

And I don't really get what the OP's trying to say anyway, it's not like any of the other consoles are fundamentally different and offer truly new experiences. Face it people, gaming has been mostly the same since the 5th Gen.

So there were games exactly like MAG, Assassin's Creed, Little Big Planet, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and hell even Gears of War on PS2?

 

Before you point fingers at other people, you should maybe try and actually justify why you are not wrong first.  Otherwise right out of the gate you are saying: "I can't come up with a convincing argument for why he/she is wrong, but look those other people are wrong too!"

exactly some of these guys would make horrible lawyers and debaters. if you're on trail for murder you cant look at another guy and say" he murdered too" you're still both going to do 20 to life, hell you might get shanked in prison.

Same as my post above.



Captain_Tom on 18 December 2013
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:


So Zombie U is as innovative now as Golden Eye was?  Really?

 

Also W101 got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing...

What does it matter if it got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing? Does it make the game LESS creative/new? No, no it doesn't. Just take a look at Tearaway and the Puppeter made by Sony. Got high praises, sure, but sold near to nothing. Or take a look at Knack for that matter. Mediocre scores, and will probably not sell all that well. The same goes for Ryse. Sure, they'll have some success, but I predict that SM3DW >> them both. Anyways, does that mean they're not new experiences? No! So don't try to belittle W101's creativity just because it's a Nintendo IP that's sold bad or got mediocre scores.

Getting Mediocre review and selling nothing does not earn it a classic rating in my book.  SOCOM 4 got similar scores and sold badly, and I wouldn't mention it as one of Sony's best.

Where did I say that this game is/will become a classic? I didn't even imply that.

Captain_Tom said:
At this point I just want to say that I am not saying Nintendo makes terrible games. They just haven't made almost anything new that is good for a long time.

Does anyone really disagree that over time Nintendo has come up with less and less new IP's, and that possibly it affected their sales?

This kinda ties in with what we were discussing, so I'm adressing it as well.

@Bolded, that is NOT what you said in the OP. Moving goal posts much? You simply stated that Nintendo is out of fresh and innovative ideas, or at least that those ideas have gotten fewer and fewer.

Man, you're so dellusional, I'll just stop talking with you. You don't even answer half the points I put forward. Why even bother. Let's be absolutely clear on this, though: the DS and the Wii (and the software to those consoles) are among the most ground breaking innovations this industry has seen - at the very least since the jump to 3D in the 5th generation. Who initiated that? Nintendo.


What really annoys me is that people like you think that is just an objective fact.  It isn't.  I believe TLoU is the best game of this generation, but I am not going to say something so rediculous as "It is a fact that we all must bask in the eternal glory of The Last of Us, and that no other game ever has come close to being half as good."



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Lawlight on 19 December 2013
Pavolink said:
Captain_Tom said:

Also the PS3 introduced so many new IP's that I would need a new thread to talk about it


Nintendo also introduced a lot of new IP's, even more than Sony. Just because some are eShop or "casuals" does not mean they don't count.

 

Agree with the rest of the post. In fact, this generation is just a big sequel of the last one. PS4 and Xbone looks so booring and uninteresting and Wii U, the only one with a new concept, failed hard. Zero hype this gen.



Why don't Nintendo make more retail new IPs?

DanneSandin on 19 December 2013
Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:


So Zombie U is as innovative now as Golden Eye was?  Really?

 

Also W101 got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing...

What does it matter if it got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing? Does it make the game LESS creative/new? No, no it doesn't. Just take a look at Tearaway and the Puppeter made by Sony. Got high praises, sure, but sold near to nothing. Or take a look at Knack for that matter. Mediocre scores, and will probably not sell all that well. The same goes for Ryse. Sure, they'll have some success, but I predict that SM3DW >> them both. Anyways, does that mean they're not new experiences? No! So don't try to belittle W101's creativity just because it's a Nintendo IP that's sold bad or got mediocre scores.

Getting Mediocre review and selling nothing does not earn it a classic rating in my book.  SOCOM 4 got similar scores and sold badly, and I wouldn't mention it as one of Sony's best.

Where did I say that this game is/will become a classic? I didn't even imply that.

Captain_Tom said:
At this point I just want to say that I am not saying Nintendo makes terrible games. They just haven't made almost anything new that is good for a long time.

Does anyone really disagree that over time Nintendo has come up with less and less new IP's, and that possibly it affected their sales?

This kinda ties in with what we were discussing, so I'm adressing it as well.

@Bolded, that is NOT what you said in the OP. Moving goal posts much? You simply stated that Nintendo is out of fresh and innovative ideas, or at least that those ideas have gotten fewer and fewer.

Man, you're so dellusional, I'll just stop talking with you. You don't even answer half the points I put forward. Why even bother. Let's be absolutely clear on this, though: the DS and the Wii (and the software to those consoles) are among the most ground breaking innovations this industry has seen - at the very least since the jump to 3D in the 5th generation. Who initiated that? Nintendo.


What really annoys me is that people like you think that is just an objective fact.  It isn't.  I believe TLoU is the best game of this generation, but I am not going to say something so rediculous as "It is a fact that we all must bask in the eternal glory of The Last of Us, and that no other game ever has come close to being half as good."

The term innovation can be defined as something original and, as consequence, new that "breaks in to" the market or into society. One usually associates to new phenomena that are important in some way. A definition of the term, in line with these aspects, would be the following: "An innovation is something original, new, and important - in whatever field - that breaks in to (or obtains a foothold in) a market or society."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Hedra42 on 19 December 2013


Captain_Tom said:
DanneSandin said:
Captain_Tom said:


So Zombie U is as innovative now as Golden Eye was?  Really?

 

Also W101 got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing...

What does it matter if it got mediocre reviews and sold nearly nothing? Does it make the game LESS creative/new? No, no it doesn't. Just take a look at Tearaway and the Puppeter made by Sony. Got high praises, sure, but sold near to nothing. Or take a look at Knack for that matter. Mediocre scores, and will probably not sell all that well. The same goes for Ryse. Sure, they'll have some success, but I predict that SM3DW >> them both. Anyways, does that mean they're not new experiences? No! So don't try to belittle W101's creativity just because it's a Nintendo IP that's sold bad or got mediocre scores.

Getting Mediocre review and selling nothing does not earn it a classic rating in my book.  SOCOM 4 got similar scores and sold badly, and I wouldn't mention it as one of Sony's best.

Where did I say that this game is/will become a classic? I didn't even imply that.

Captain_Tom said:
At this point I just want to say that I am not saying Nintendo makes terrible games. They just haven't made almost anything new that is good for a long time.

Does anyone really disagree that over time Nintendo has come up with less and less new IP's, and that possibly it affected their sales?

 

I see both sides of the argument. Stalwarts like Mario, Zelda et al seem to be timeless, and will always sell. New IPs are more risky. Putting all the effort into new IPs without churning out more of the popular ones, could negatively affect sales.

W101 got a metacritic score of 78. Luigi's Mansion for Gamecube got a metacritic score of 78. So, why didn't W101 do as well as Luigi's Mansion?

Luigi's Mansion was a launch game. It was designed to show off some of the Gamecube's capabilities, and Luigi is a familiar character.

W101 helps demonstrate what can be done with the Wii U game pad, but it couldn't hope to do as well as Luigi's Mansion because it wasn't a launch game, and all its characters are new.

According to this article http://www.joystiq.com/2013/08/24/the-wonderful-101-initially-starred-nintendo-characters/ the initial concept for W101 was to use familiar characters from different games and bring them together, much like the Smash Bros series. Did they make the right decision to use original characters? If they hadn't, would W101's sales figures been any different?

Looking at it a different way - Super Mario Sunshine is listed as a new IP for Gamecube in the opening post of this thread. It scored 92 on Metacritic. (and interestingly, got a user score of 8.4, the same as Luigi's Mansion).

Would a game like Super Mario Sunshine have done better or worse if it had a different title and completely original characters?

Nintendo are introducing new IPs. But I guess it's about getting the balance between the old and the new right. And sometimes, like Luigi's Mansion, you need a familiar character to sell a new idea.

(Edit to add) - As far as I know, Wii U's new IP include Nintendoland, Wonderful 101 and Super Mario 3D World. We could probably count the upcoming Hyrule Warriors (Name TBA) as well. I'm not sure Zombie U can be counted as 1st or 2nd party as it was developed AND published by Ubisoft, but I may be wrong, there.

I believe 3D World should be counted  because it combines familiar elements from existing franchises and adds in new ones for a new and different experience. Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion and Galaxy did just the same.



fatslob-:O on 19 December 2013

Their software has become irrelevant for the most part and the quality dwindled as well with it.



DanneSandin on 19 December 2013
fatslob-:O said:
Their software has become irrelevant for the most part and the quality dwindled as well with it.

Both statements are false. Thank you for participating, now shush!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.