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Forums - PC Discussion - PC Gamers are delusional (controversial opinion)

pokoko said:
You're being just as elitist with your stereotypes as the people you're railing against. The things you're accusing "PC gamers" of don't even apply to the majority of PC gamers.

Also, I think your return key is broken.


Good, someone wrote this. It seems it is another uninformed gamer, that is mad at a friend for mocking him to be perfectly honest. I game pretty much on almost all platforms available, and I never seen such generationalization. 



 

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Acevil said:
pokoko said:
You're being just as elitist with your stereotypes as the people you're railing against. The things you're accusing "PC gamers" of don't even apply to the majority of PC gamers.

Also, I think your return key is broken.


Good, someone wrote this. It seems it is another uninformed gamer, that is mad at a friend for mocking him to be perfectly honest. I game pretty much on almost all platforms available, and I never seen such generationalization. 


Im not mad at anyone, at best im just annoyed at the (exceptionally few I accept) PC gamers who think us who buy the next gen console are soft and should expect the same level of performance they get from their PC.



The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.

Ernest Hemmingway

kowenicki said:
There is another aspect to this. Take a look at the steam survey hardware survey... you will see how right you are and its not remotely controversial.

I think a lot of PC gamers lie about their "rigs"

Steam has over 65 million active users.  The percentage on forums talking about how they get better performance than on consoles will only be a small fraction of the total userbase.  By the same token, even if the percentage of people with a Titan or 780 or 7970, etc etc is small it can represent a significant number of people.  If you looked at any gaming forum right now, you'd think a significant chunk if not a majority have already purchased a next generation console.  However they only amount to a few percent of the total sales from last generation.

I'm also not sure how the steam hardware survey handles accounts using multiple PC's.  I use Steam with multiple PC's, one of them significantly more powerful than the others.  Is the survey including all of them?  Judging by the mobile GPU's listed and the high percentage using 1366x768 (a very common laptop resolution) they are certainly including a lot of laptops in their survey.  Now whether these are laptops used by people who also have desktops or if they are the primary machine is something we can't really know.  However I suspect somebody who just uses a laptop to play Football Manager or Civ V isn't coming onto VGC to lie about their rig.



Brutalyst said:
mornelithe said:

Not that I care who plays what, because what I do with my money is none of your concern, and vice versa...but here's a few points I'd like to make.

1) If graphics aren't everything, why have developers sacrificed map sizes, and other game functionality, in order to increase the graphical acuity on console? And why haven't gamer's rejected such tactics?

2) Why do console games with perceived poor graphics, perform poorly?

3) Looking through the posts here on VG, there aren't many 'We're the PC Master Race, tremble before our might" posts...but near the very top? A thread clearly designed to illicit a response from PC Gamers.

This is merely observation, of course. But, it occurs to me that folks who only game on console, or, prefer console as their platform of choice for gaming, have just as many folks who like flaming/baiting others who have a different choice, and then feign indignation when a person who enjoys another platform takes the bait.

For me personally? There's far more to a game than how shiny it looks. Take Stalker, as an example. The graphics at the time were quite good, but what I found so enjoyable and amazing was the X-Ray (AI) engine coupled with the vast open world - which to be frank, is unparalleled - the attention to detail for the area surrounding Chernobyl, and that they made a very serious stab at a physics system (with regards to bullet behavior). To have a map that size, that is continuously interacting with itself, on it's own, whether you're there or not, is quite a feat to achieve. The AI so robust, that initially it had to be scaled back because the NPC's themselves would conquer the game before you could...is uncanny. Roving bands of mutated animals, wiping out outposts, even quest givers...you'd be out in the middle of nowhere trying to do something and all of a sudden 'Quest failed', you go back to the area where you got the quest, and everyone's dead, and the area populated with irradiated organisms.  The randomness in Stalker added a level of thrill that I haven't seen many games achieve (and personally, I hope it eventually ends up on console, because it's a fantastic series)

You're right, graphics aren't everything, but, gamer's haven't exactly been voting with their wallets against such tactics either. Games are still rated, and bought based in large part on how they look. I'm GLAD the new consoles have, if nothing else, a fairly robust amount of RAM. That's what was severely lacking in the PS3/360. It will give developers many new avenues to pursue without having to sacrifice in areas where we currently have a standard.

Either way, I hope everyone enjoys the new gen, and the gens to come...but maybe we could ALL stand to be a tad more civilized with each other and remember that every platform has it's less than stellar examples of human beings.

1) who said they have? can you provide evidence towards this?

 

2) Again, do they, can you provide evidence towards this?

 

3) Im not saying all PC gamers are this stereo-typical, but there are a few I have noticed on these forums who seem to fall back on the argument of 'why bother with this gen of console, my PC does it all better'

1.) Call of Duty and to a lesser degree Battlefield 3, the best examples there are.  Call of Duty and BF3 had to sacrifice map size in order to increase how they looked.  Crysis 2 and 3 had things cut from the design phase specifically because they couldn't get them to work on console with the level of graphics they were requiring (Look up Cevat Yerli's interviews pre Crysis 2).  Some would argue that it was done to force people into tighter spaces to pick up the level of battle, however, others would argue that to scale back on the graphics a bit, would allow more players per server, thus increasing the pace of battle.  Of course, this entire debate could've been rendered moot had developers not decided to suck every penny they could from gamers by removing map making and server tools as an industry standard so that they could charge everyone for MP and bland maps, whereas, you used to be able to just band together with a group of friends, rent your own server (for a fraction of the cost we each pay for accessing XBL/PS+) and develop your own maps.  To say nothing of Mods.

2.) I would need to dig to provide numbers, but there are numerous times in the past 7 years I can recall, where gamer's chose not to get this game or that game because it didn't look good enough.  This isn't all console gamer's of course, but the argument was there.  I'll get back to you if you really want me to.

3.)  If that's their choice, that's their choice.  How does that statement differ in any way from what you've done here?  What does it matter to you if their PC can do it better?  If they decide to invest in the platform, that's up to them, just like it's up to you if you choose to invest in a console.  Nobody else is paying for it, so why should any of us care?  And how does their statement in any way interfere with the pleasure you glean from playing games on the platform of your choice?  

I think part of the problem is, people just don't know how to ignore things they don't agree with, based on preference.  It's the blatant false statements that always get me though heh.  I find it very difficult to ignore false information (not a statement about you, that's just one of my hang-ups).



Sleepyprince said:
You know OP, I'll way you other thing to support your opinion :

- Pc gamers buy their machines for two/three times the PS4 only to play the same games with some graphics difference. For them the graphics difference is worth 800/1200$. To me, it's just a fraud and it make them look plain stupid when they try to convince people they are superior. Because in terms of economic and value, they're just fool. Paying 400 to 900$ more for adjusted graphics and fps makes no sens whatsoever.

- I already asked pc gamers who bitch about KZ shadowfall graphics to show me something similar running on a 800/900€ PC. They failed. I even said I will give them 150$ if they could. But they couldn't. They tried to show me some bland Crysis or other things like that. Of course, as a little game dev who own a studio, I know a bunch about pc gaming. So I know no one could have show me something similar. I know a PC that could run something similar to Shadowfall ( both techincal and artistical wise ) would cost a leg and a ball too. And it would overheat bad after some time.

- Yes console are ofter weaker than pc. BUT console games are way, way more optimised on console. Hence why 8years old machine could run something like GTA V, Forza 4 or The last of Us. Their is only one configuration available for a console. Their is infinite one on PC.


I was playing BF3 on my PC which cost €900. It was running at 1080p60 at Ultra.



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I'm pc/ps2/ps3/psp and although I never cared much about the (technical quality of) graphics I have to admit that graphics used to matter, up till the PS360. For example, look at Max Payne 2 on pc and then on ps2 - they are completely different game experiences and you know which one of them is the far superior one! But will you shut up about the ps4 already please - it has no gaemz! True gamers will only start caring about it in 2 years when the first worthy exclusives start arriving.



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JerCotter7 said:
Sleepyprince said:
You know OP, I'll way you other thing to support your opinion :

- Pc gamers buy their machines for two/three times the PS4 only to play the same games with some graphics difference. For them the graphics difference is worth 800/1200$. To me, it's just a fraud and it make them look plain stupid when they try to convince people they are superior. Because in terms of economic and value, they're just fool. Paying 400 to 900$ more for adjusted graphics and fps makes no sens whatsoever.

- I already asked pc gamers who bitch about KZ shadowfall graphics to show me something similar running on a 800/900€ PC. They failed. I even said I will give them 150$ if they could. But they couldn't. They tried to show me some bland Crysis or other things like that. Of course, as a little game dev who own a studio, I know a bunch about pc gaming. So I know no one could have show me something similar. I know a PC that could run something similar to Shadowfall ( both techincal and artistical wise ) would cost a leg and a ball too. And it would overheat bad after some time.

- Yes console are ofter weaker than pc. BUT console games are way, way more optimised on console. Hence why 8years old machine could run something like GTA V, Forza 4 or The last of Us. Their is only one configuration available for a console. Their is infinite one on PC.


I was playing BF3 on my PC which cost €900. It was running at 1080p60 at Ultra.


BF3 compared to shadowfall ? Ow please. Are you serious ? 



Sleepyprince said:
JerCotter7 said:
Sleepyprince said:
You know OP, I'll way you other thing to support your opinion :

- Pc gamers buy their machines for two/three times the PS4 only to play the same games with some graphics difference. For them the graphics difference is worth 800/1200$. To me, it's just a fraud and it make them look plain stupid when they try to convince people they are superior. Because in terms of economic and value, they're just fool. Paying 400 to 900$ more for adjusted graphics and fps makes no sens whatsoever.

- I already asked pc gamers who bitch about KZ shadowfall graphics to show me something similar running on a 800/900€ PC. They failed. I even said I will give them 150$ if they could. But they couldn't. They tried to show me some bland Crysis or other things like that. Of course, as a little game dev who own a studio, I know a bunch about pc gaming. So I know no one could have show me something similar. I know a PC that could run something similar to Shadowfall ( both techincal and artistical wise ) would cost a leg and a ball too. And it would overheat bad after some time.

- Yes console are ofter weaker than pc. BUT console games are way, way more optimised on console. Hence why 8years old machine could run something like GTA V, Forza 4 or The last of Us. Their is only one configuration available for a console. Their is infinite one on PC.


I was playing BF3 on my PC which cost €900. It was running at 1080p60 at Ultra.


BF3 compared to shadowfall ? Ow please. Are you serious ? 


I'm just going by what I have seen so far of SF. Amazon messed up my PS4 order so it's gonna be a week late. 

EDIT: Also this was a year ago. So for the same price now you would get even better. A lot better if you go with AMD.



Acevil said:
pokoko said:
You're being just as elitist with your stereotypes as the people you're railing against. The things you're accusing "PC gamers" of don't even apply to the majority of PC gamers.

Also, I think your return key is broken.


Good, someone wrote this. It seems it is another uninformed gamer, that is mad at a friend for mocking him to be perfectly honest. I game pretty much on almost all platforms available, and I never seen such generationalization. 

Here is a typical internet behavior. 

Speak the truth, if the forum guy who want to answer you have no argument, he'll speak about generationalization and other things like this. 

We all know all the pc gamers on forum behave like the op said. You can say whatever you want, we all know it. Words and arguments means shit in front of truth. 



mornelithe said:
Brutalyst said:
mornelithe said:

Not that I care who plays what, because what I do with my money is none of your concern, and vice versa...but here's a few points I'd like to make.

1) If graphics aren't everything, why have developers sacrificed map sizes, and other game functionality, in order to increase the graphical acuity on console? And why haven't gamer's rejected such tactics?

2) Why do console games with perceived poor graphics, perform poorly?

3) Looking through the posts here on VG, there aren't many 'We're the PC Master Race, tremble before our might" posts...but near the very top? A thread clearly designed to illicit a response from PC Gamers.

This is merely observation, of course. But, it occurs to me that folks who only game on console, or, prefer console as their platform of choice for gaming, have just as many folks who like flaming/baiting others who have a different choice, and then feign indignation when a person who enjoys another platform takes the bait.

For me personally? There's far more to a game than how shiny it looks. Take Stalker, as an example. The graphics at the time were quite good, but what I found so enjoyable and amazing was the X-Ray (AI) engine coupled with the vast open world - which to be frank, is unparalleled - the attention to detail for the area surrounding Chernobyl, and that they made a very serious stab at a physics system (with regards to bullet behavior). To have a map that size, that is continuously interacting with itself, on it's own, whether you're there or not, is quite a feat to achieve. The AI so robust, that initially it had to be scaled back because the NPC's themselves would conquer the game before you could...is uncanny. Roving bands of mutated animals, wiping out outposts, even quest givers...you'd be out in the middle of nowhere trying to do something and all of a sudden 'Quest failed', you go back to the area where you got the quest, and everyone's dead, and the area populated with irradiated organisms.  The randomness in Stalker added a level of thrill that I haven't seen many games achieve (and personally, I hope it eventually ends up on console, because it's a fantastic series)

You're right, graphics aren't everything, but, gamer's haven't exactly been voting with their wallets against such tactics either. Games are still rated, and bought based in large part on how they look. I'm GLAD the new consoles have, if nothing else, a fairly robust amount of RAM. That's what was severely lacking in the PS3/360. It will give developers many new avenues to pursue without having to sacrifice in areas where we currently have a standard.

Either way, I hope everyone enjoys the new gen, and the gens to come...but maybe we could ALL stand to be a tad more civilized with each other and remember that every platform has it's less than stellar examples of human beings.

1) who said they have? can you provide evidence towards this?

 

2) Again, do they, can you provide evidence towards this?

 

3) Im not saying all PC gamers are this stereo-typical, but there are a few I have noticed on these forums who seem to fall back on the argument of 'why bother with this gen of console, my PC does it all better'

1.) Call of Duty and to a lesser degree Battlefield 3, the best examples there are.  Call of Duty and BF3 had to sacrifice map size in order to increase how they looked.  Crysis 2 and 3 had things cut from the design phase specifically because they couldn't get them to work on console with the level of graphics they were requiring (Look up Cevat Yerli's interviews pre Crysis 2).  Some would argue that it was done to force people into tighter spaces to pick up the level of battle, however, others would argue that to scale back on the graphics a bit, would allow more players per server, thus increasing the pace of battle.  Of course, this entire debate could've been rendered moot had developers not decided to suck every penny they could from gamers by removing map making and server tools as an industry standard so that they could charge everyone for MP and bland maps, whereas, you used to be able to just band together with a group of friends, rent your own server (for a fraction of the cost we each pay for accessing XBL/PS+) and develop your own maps.  To say nothing of Mods.

2.) I would need to dig to provide numbers, but there are numerous times in the past 7 years I can recall, where gamer's chose not to get this game or that game because it didn't look good enough.  This isn't all console gamer's of course, but the argument was there.  I'll get back to you if you really want me to.

3.)  If that's their choice, that's their choice.  How does that statement differ in any way from what you've done here?  What does it matter to you if their PC can do it better?  If they decide to invest in the platform, that's up to them, just like it's up to you if you choose to invest in a console.  Nobody else is paying for it, so why should any of us care?  And how does their statement in any way interfere with the pleasure you glean from playing games on the platform of your choice?  

I think part of the problem is, people just don't know how to ignore things they don't agree with, based on preference.  It's the blatant false statements that always get me though heh.  I find it very difficult to ignore false information (not a statement about you, that's just one of my hang-ups).

1) first I've heard of it, and I wont argue with you on the subject. Though for Call of Duty, if the maps were smaller, its probably for the better, as playing that I couldnt help but find myself wandering and looking for someone for extended periods of time, and think to myself at the same time 'a few more players wouldnt hurt as 16 seems lacking for this level'.

2) Nope, I totally believe you, no need to prove this one, as im the same... to an extent, as in I expect the game im buying to be an improvement on the game I had previously, whether that be through graphics, gameplay, or content. As long as it surpasses the last it doesnt matter which on in most cases (as kind of my point) as the new consoles though they may not match up to the current PC generation graphically, they are certainly far superior to what we have had in the past. I'd certainly not disregard a game for poor graphics (curently playing Star Command which im loving!) but also is my point against the elitist PC gamers (granted not all are the same)  purely having better graphic and there rig being superiour isnt the end and be all, as long as what we get is an improvement on what we have.

3) my statement here doesnt differentiate, im just making the statement in defence of us who want to buy the next generation of console machines, and defend against those who say it isnt worth it because 'my PC can do better' yeah, no doubt it can. But they paid extra for it to do better, all they wanted was for it to do better, and us console gamers are no different in that respect. Its more about money to proportionate, and that 'my PC performs better' is a stupid argument, we all paid for the same end result, onl tose PC gamers who want to argue that paid more. 



The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.

Ernest Hemmingway