The initial number of reports, in that 24 hour window from launch, was about 8 and the media went and ran with it. Reporting "omg, PS4s are breaking left and right". Causing Sony to release the official statement that less than 0.4% were screwing up. But no, the media storm is making you go "look, look! These Amazon reviews just prove that all the consoles are breaking!" all the while ignoring the other 80% that give it 5 star reviews.

It's been 8 hours since the XBone launched (and that thread was started 10 hours ago). There's already been 7 reports in that window of time (and that's just on Reddit alone). Now let's wait until the media catches wind of this, and I and many others will have readily accessible "data" once that small sample size gets blown out of proportion. And more importantly, let's wait til the XBone has more than 88 reviews, since apparently that's the end all, be all metric

I can give you a review - since I do not own either the PS4 or XB1.

The PS4 works for me! ***** out of 5

The XB1 works for me! ***** out of 5

Seeing as how most of the internet is filled with no name people commenting or leaving false information, I think you should trust my reviews as the closest your going to get to legitimate on the net.

I heard from Sony the failure rate was 0.4 %. I see quite a bit of twisting for that to get transformed into 40%.

That's all very interesting, but besides the point. The question of this thread is: are PS4's still breaking? And according to hundreds of verified Amazon customers, they are. The issue is on-going.

You have accused me of coming to a conclusion based 8 faulty units and a media frenzy, none of which I ever mentioned or referenced. Will you acknowledge that this accusation is without substance?

Amazon verified purchasers are not social media.

Quite a confusion you have there.

well it took a week but mines just died and I cant get a refund, or exchange due to no systems being available=( it started with the screen not displaying right then ps4 started flashing the blue light....this sucks=(

We all know you dont own a ps4. A quick glimpse at your lost history is enough evidence.

No, I won't because "on-going" implies that more PS4 are being made and they keep breaking, as if the problem isn't being fixed at the source. We have an official figure based on the initial shipment of PS4s. They aren't "still breaking" when there's no new stock being put in the channels. We have the sell through number from the initial wave of consoles sold (over 1 million) and the figure that less than 0.4% are broken.

If we see more reports and official percentages increase and go from 0.4% to 1%, 1% to 1.5%, etc. then we can call it an "on-going" issue, because amongst that initial stock, a higher and higher rate of them would be reported to have broken. Yet, the percentage still sits at less than 0.4%. Otherwise, RROD is an "on-going" issue because the fail rate is 33%. What's happening here is akin to "We have 100 apples. 10% will be rotten" then 5 are reported to be rotten. That leaves another 5 to be rotten, but you say "there's an on-going issue of rotten apples" even though we have a known number of apples that are consumed and a known rate of how many will be rotten at the end of the day. There are 1,000,000 PS4s in consumer hands. 0.4% is the number. When anything over 4,000 of them break, it'll be an issue worth our time.

And I don't think my accusation is without substance. It is based on reasonable evidence. And that is the fact that we're having this conversation because the media made it a huge issue (when it isn't) and that came to be because of that small sample of initial reports. Be honest: would you have gone to Amazon's reviews in order to parrot "Look at how many are failing!" if everyone treated it like the non-issue that it is? PS3 has like a 5% fail rate, but did anyone complain about that, en masse? No. But you want to take the figure of <0.4% and make it seem like the end of the world

Sure.....my accusation is just completely baseless and without substance *shrugs*

"No, I won't because "on-going" implies that more PS4 are being made and they keep breaking, as if the problem isn't being fixed at the source. We have an official figure based on the initial shipment of PS4s. They aren't "still breaking" when there's no new stock being put in the channels. We have the sell through number from the initial wave of consoles sold (over 1 million) and the figure that less than 0.4% are broken."

The question was: are PS4's still breaking? If you want to exclude all existing PS4's from this question, then of course the answer is "No", because they have not been made yet. But that is a very strange interpretation of the original question. Why would the OP want to know about the status of consoles that have not even been produced yet? It is obvious that the OP asked about PS4's that are out in the market right now. And the answer is "Yes, they are still breaking".

"If we see more reports and official percentages increase and go from 0.4% to 1%, 1% to 1.5%, etc. then we can call it an "on-going" issue"

We are seeing more reports. Amazon reviews are being added even as we speak, many of which complain about the exact issue. Just because Sony has released no official numbers does not mean that it is not happening.

"And I don't think my accusation is without substance. It is based on reasonable evidence. And that is the fact that we're having this conversation because the media made it a huge issue (when it isn't) and that came to be because of that small sample of initial reports."

The accusation you made is not that I read the media, but that I based my opinion on those initial media statements. That is rubbish and purely of your own invention.

"Sure.....my accusation is just completely baseless and without substance *shrugs*"

It is. You have not addressed my claims, but invented your own and attacked them instead. Classic straw man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man.

1. How did you get "exclude all existing PS4s" from me saying "there are 1 million in consumer hands and less than 0.4% are breaking"? I was specifically talking about the rate at which the units in consumers' hands are breaking. And I said that we know, roughly, how many have broken. If you meant to flip what I was saying to refer to units yet to be produced, you miscontrued what I said. You said it's an "on-going problem". On-going implies that they are producing more and more PS4 and they keep breaking. Like when the 360 came out, they kept producing 360s and they kept breaking. That's on-going. When we know how many are in people's hands and we know how have broken/projected to break, it's not an "on-going problem". It's a just a matter of "when will that figure hit so we can have better analysis of the product".

2. So, is Amazon the end all? Is Amazon the barometer by which we determine everything? Do you know how many people don't leave reviews? We know that some PS4s are breaking. Of course, then, are we going to see a review that says "hey, my PS4 broke". But what about all the people that don't even touch the review section of Amazon? Your view is very skewed if it's based on one retailer's review scores. Plus, have you heard of a "vocal minority"? The smallest group being the loudest? You're basically letting a handful of bad reviews supercede everything else.

3. If you didn't base your opinion on the information you were given, then what is it based off of? Nothing? Did you buy a bunch of PS4s and then some broke on you? Please tell me how to obtain this information, other than spending loads of money on multitudes of consoles to determine these things on my own, without going through the channels that have said information, so I form an opinion. I could have sworn that the correct way to do things is receive information and form an opinion on it, but apparently you have some mystical way of forming an opinion without information.

4. No, it's not. I addressed each point you made. You said "30% of the reviews were on DOA consoles from verified purchasers". That's just wrong, anyway, because the TOTAL number of 1 star reviews is less than 25% of all the reviews, and of that less than 25%, less than 25% of that are from verified purchasers. So you just completely fabricated numbers. You said that PS4s breaking is an "on-going issue" when we know that A. over 1M people have bought PS4s and B. Sony gave a figure of less that 0.4% of them breaking. We haven't heard of more than 4,000 breaking, so how is it "on going"? Like the apple analogy, if I gave you 100 apples and said 10% would be rotten, how is it an "on going problem" when we can expect about 10 to be rotten?

If it seemed like I "attacked" your points, well, it's because they're so ludicrous that any reasonable response to them would look like an "attack".